2012 grand sport steering wheel wobble of death
04-10-2014, 10:31 PM
#41
Melting Slicks
Not to try to cause alarm but not all accidents are reported to car fax,previous owner may have nailed a curb and not replaced everything as needed. If you cannot find a solution advise taking car to collision shop and ask for an inspection,and possibly a frame check on frame machine with measuring device that can check specific points of interest on frame rails/front end alignment. good luck with your quest.
04-10-2014, 10:52 PM
#42
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Really??? Man! They don't pulse a bit!! Of course, that's about vote#17 for rotors! :-) I will pull the wheels this w/e and put an indicator on them. Is there a spec for allowable runout? I hope like hell it's that simple !! I'm surprised the dealership didn't think of that or check it? I've had it there 4 times and now they throw their hands up.?
04-10-2014, 10:59 PM
#43
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My symptoms were same as yours.
04-10-2014, 10:59 PM
#44
16 Vettes and counting…..
Really??? Man! They don't pulse a bit!! Of course, that's about vote#17 for rotors! :-) I will pull the wheels this w/e and put an indicator on them. Is there a spec for allowable runout? I hope like hell it's that simple !! I'm surprised the dealership didn't think of that or check it? I've had it there 4 times and now they throw their hands up.?
04-11-2014, 01:33 AM
#45
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Really??? Man! They don't pulse a bit!! Of course, that's about vote#17 for rotors! :-) I will pull the wheels this w/e and put an indicator on them. Is there a spec for allowable runout? I hope like hell it's that simple !! I'm surprised the dealership didn't think of that or check it? I've had it there 4 times and now they throw their hands up.?
On-vehicle lateral runout wheel/tire is .060 measured at the tire sidewall closest to the tread. Off-vehicle (mounted on a tire balancer) lateral runout on the wheel is .030 measured at the rim. Radial runout is also .030 measured on the back side internal barrel. (you can't measure from the front side)
Rotor lateral runout is .002 measured at the outside edge of the rotor. (in the non-wear area) Be sure to replace lugnuts on the rotor before checking. If the factory palnuts are still on the rotors, remove and discard them. They were for assembly purposes only.
The comment about the dealer throwing up hands in frustration, is an indication they don't know or fail to read how to do vibration diagnostics. That part should be worrisome. If you haven't found the problem after the wheel swap test, I'd be inclined to find another dealer who understands the process.
04-11-2014, 02:13 AM
#46
Le Mans Master
I had a similar issue on my new '12 GS from the drive home. I was told by a GM engineer to have a realignment, only use 0 degree camber on all four. The GS has the alignment set up to use on the track (why?) and has negative camber. I had the alignment done at 0 and have not had the "pulse/wobble" issue since. The tires seem to be holding up well at 10k, too. Drove at near 100 mph for a long stretch of remote interstate last October and the car handled like it was going 30, where before I felt like I had to fight it to keep it tracking straight.
04-11-2014, 02:24 AM
#47
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Only one option left
I completely understand your pain. I bought my dream car, a 2010 GS ordered from the factory and had exactly this problem from day one. I spent 2 and a half years working with the dealer to fix this. We tried everything you described, heck, we had the Hunter rep fly out to make sure the dealer was using the road force balance machine correctly, which they were. We swapped rims and tires from a showroom car, changed a hub, and nothing helped. The dealer tried, but finally gave up and quoted a TSB that said this was normal. This just pissed me off and made me angry at Chevy. I worked my way to the top of who they would allow me to talk to at GM and then in so many words told me to exercise my consumer rights and apply legal force. I called the BBB auto line, whis is free, and the within 24 hours was contacted by GM to offer me a buy back. The net affect was they gave me full credit for MSRP for my vehicle (which is not what I paid originally) but I had to buy any GM vehical at full MSRP. They only charged me $1000 for the 25k miles I had on it, which is a bargain. They even paid me back for the new Nittos I had purchased trying to fix the shimmy. What did I buy? I of course turned around and ordered an identical 2013 GS from the factory adding mag suspension which was not an option in 2010. Truth be told when I test drove it with the salesman for the first time it too had a slight vibration at highway speeds and I was sick, but it turned out the tires were jacked up to 45 psi balloons, which was the problem. 12k miles on this new one has been absoluley wonderful, except for some minor trim related things . No shimmy. The BBB made GM make good on everything and I now have my dream car. Call them asap. I'm convinced GM knows this is common, but most people don't push it this far.
04-11-2014, 02:50 AM
#48
Race Director
QUOTE:
"The only way to confirm a rotor is warped is to measure
run-out with a dial indicator gauge. Most shops are equipped with this measuring tool and can check the bare rotor run-outs on the vehicle. If your installer says a rotor is warped, be sure to ask them for the run-out numbers on the rotor as well as the run-out numbers on the hub under the rotor. The new rotor should also be checked for excessive run-out using a dial indicator gauge once it is mounted and before the caliper and pads are installed. If a rotor has excessive run-out of over .004" (.10mm) it should be replaced."
04-11-2014, 08:53 AM
#49
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I had a similar issue on my new '12 GS from the drive home. I was told by a GM engineer to have a realignment, only use 0 degree camber on all four. The GS has the alignment set up to use on the track (why?) and has negative camber. I had the alignment done at 0 and have not had the "pulse/wobble" issue since. The tires seem to be holding up well at 10k, too. Drove at near 100 mph for a long stretch of remote interstate last October and the car handled like it was going 30, where before I felt like I had to fight it to keep it tracking straight.
Sounds to me like the misalignment from the factory could cause all of the issues down stream! The longer you drive it in this condition, it will take out tires, bushings, wheel bearings, even rotors maybe.. I hope the alignment is enough to fix my condition, but seems to be the most logical place to start.. Realign #1, if issue persists, look at rotors, bearings, bushings, etc.
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Last edited by racinjason424; 04-11-2014 at 08:56 AM.
04-11-2014, 10:15 AM
#50
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[QUOTE=racinjason424;1586630208]Interesting.. Several votes for realignment to other specs. So your vibration issue was something in the range of 70+ as mine is? I can say with 8500 Miles, my front tires were smoked.. They were worn uneven and the car wandered all over the road.. 6/32 on the outside and 4/32 on both inside edges of the front tires. New tires fixed the wandering, but not the vibration.
Sounds to me like the misalignment from the factory could cause all of the issues down stream! The longer you drive it in this condition, it will take out tires, bushings, wheel bearings, even rotors maybe.. I hope the alignment is enough to fix my condition, but seems to be the most logical place to start.. Realign #1, if issue persists, look at rotors, bearings, bushings, etc.
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Did some research on the front end suspension. It uses upper and lower wishbone control arms with two bushings each. I would guess the bushings for a GS are unique for performance reasons. That could explain why all those reporting the problem here seem to be GS drivers. First thing I'd do is check out the bushings and make sure they are up to handling that big rim/rubber combination.
Sounds to me like the misalignment from the factory could cause all of the issues down stream! The longer you drive it in this condition, it will take out tires, bushings, wheel bearings, even rotors maybe.. I hope the alignment is enough to fix my condition, but seems to be the most logical place to start.. Realign #1, if issue persists, look at rotors, bearings, bushings, etc.
[IMG]
[/IMG][/QUOTEDid some research on the front end suspension. It uses upper and lower wishbone control arms with two bushings each. I would guess the bushings for a GS are unique for performance reasons. That could explain why all those reporting the problem here seem to be GS drivers. First thing I'd do is check out the bushings and make sure they are up to handling that big rim/rubber combination.
04-11-2014, 10:41 AM
#51
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Interesting.. Several votes for realignment to other specs. So your vibration issue was something in the range of 70+ as mine is? I can say with 8500 Miles, my front tires were smoked.. They were worn uneven and the car wandered all over the road.. 6/32 on the outside and 4/32 on both inside edges of the front tires. New tires fixed the wandering, but not the vibration.
Sounds to me like the misalignment from the factory could cause all of the issues down stream! The longer you drive it in this condition, it will take out tires, bushings, wheel bearings, even rotors maybe.. I hope the alignment is enough to fix my condition, but seems to be the most logical place to start.. Realign #1, if issue persists, look at rotors, bearings, bushings, etc.
Sounds to me like the misalignment from the factory could cause all of the issues down stream! The longer you drive it in this condition, it will take out tires, bushings, wheel bearings, even rotors maybe.. I hope the alignment is enough to fix my condition, but seems to be the most logical place to start.. Realign #1, if issue persists, look at rotors, bearings, bushings, etc.
You should consider buying a service manual. The section on vibration diagnosis and correction alone is 77 pages long. Don't expect the average mechanic to bother reading it for specs when they work on your car. The more you know about your car, the less likely the mechanic will try to BS you. Give them a copy of the specs and they'll know you mean it damn well better be right.
04-11-2014, 10:49 AM
#52
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If you get an alignment, make sure the tech tightens the nuts to the correct torque. I've heard of quite a few who have had multiple alignments after the first one. Most likely it's due to insufficient tightening.
You should consider buying a service manual. The section on vibration diagnosis and correction alone is 77 pages long. Don't expect the average mechanic to bother reading it for specs when they work on your car. The more you know about your car, the less likely the mechanic will try to BS you. Give them a copy of the specs and they'll know you mean it damn well better be right.
You should consider buying a service manual. The section on vibration diagnosis and correction alone is 77 pages long. Don't expect the average mechanic to bother reading it for specs when they work on your car. The more you know about your car, the less likely the mechanic will try to BS you. Give them a copy of the specs and they'll know you mean it damn well better be right.
04-11-2014, 11:48 AM
#53
Racer
To the OP: I have a 2012 GS. I had the same problem, brake rotors warped or out of round, and in addition one of the tires was out-of-round -- all the balancing and alignment in the world won't fix those problems, either. Rotors and tires were replaced under warranty. You need to have both of those issues thoroughly checked. (What you said about the uneven tire wear is a significant symptom.)
04-11-2014, 12:17 PM
#54
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To the OP: I have a 2012 GS. I had the same problem, brake rotors warped or out of round, and in addition one of the tires was out-of-round -- all the balancing and alignment in the world won't fix those problems, either. Rotors and tires were replaced under warranty. You need to have both of those issues thoroughly checked. (What you said about the uneven tire wear is a significant symptom.)
Last edited by racinjason424; 04-11-2014 at 12:19 PM.
04-11-2014, 12:42 PM
#55
Melting Slicks
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I've had my GS over 100 dozens of times (on a road race track) and its superb, stable and predictable. That doesn't help here only to know this problem is fixable once found.
I was surprised to read your alignment was good when it was checked. What I have trouble with is, well two things, one there is a lot of rubber in the suspension so its almost always different, and two, the alignment specs from GM have a LOT of tolerance. The Pfadt specs are tighter and actually fall in the same parameters as the GM specs - for street and street/track alignments.
I've read in posts on CF where dealers said they road-force balanced the tires only to eventually find out the tires were balanced only or the tech didn't understand how to use the machine or didn't take the time to use it properly (your pick).
When I had the tires replaced on my -08, they were road force balanced and it was not an easy job for the tech. Tech's don't like run flat tires either, the sidewalls make mounting and dismounting tires difficult. The shop I went to (a motorsports shop) allowed me to stay with the tech, he explained all he was doing and I heard the teasing from the other techs about having to work on run flat tires... When I took the car back to the track with its new tires, they were very smooth at well over 100mph.
I think with the larger tires of the GS/Z's, they present challenges getting them to balance well. I don't know where you are located but you may have run into a problem with the locals not experienced enough to work with such wide tires and rims and may want to try a motorsports shop where they deal with this routinely AND have RF balancing equipment.
I was surprised to read your alignment was good when it was checked. What I have trouble with is, well two things, one there is a lot of rubber in the suspension so its almost always different, and two, the alignment specs from GM have a LOT of tolerance. The Pfadt specs are tighter and actually fall in the same parameters as the GM specs - for street and street/track alignments.
I've read in posts on CF where dealers said they road-force balanced the tires only to eventually find out the tires were balanced only or the tech didn't understand how to use the machine or didn't take the time to use it properly (your pick).
When I had the tires replaced on my -08, they were road force balanced and it was not an easy job for the tech. Tech's don't like run flat tires either, the sidewalls make mounting and dismounting tires difficult. The shop I went to (a motorsports shop) allowed me to stay with the tech, he explained all he was doing and I heard the teasing from the other techs about having to work on run flat tires... When I took the car back to the track with its new tires, they were very smooth at well over 100mph.
I think with the larger tires of the GS/Z's, they present challenges getting them to balance well. I don't know where you are located but you may have run into a problem with the locals not experienced enough to work with such wide tires and rims and may want to try a motorsports shop where they deal with this routinely AND have RF balancing equipment.
04-11-2014, 02:23 PM
#56
Tech Contributor
As to "why"....ummm....hmmmmm...sports car that's advertised as track ready?
Bottom line is that the suspension settles on new cars over the course of the first 1500 or so miles. That affects the alignment. On cars with wide tires, the affects can be rather dramatic. Other makes and models with wide tires have the same issues.
As an aside, no way would I set camber to zero if the intent is to do anything other than cruise down the interstate.
04-11-2014, 02:53 PM
#57
Heel & Toe
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Not even close to a track alignment. While mildly aggressive for the street, a typical track alignment will have between 2.5* and 3* of negative camber, more than double the factory specs.
As to "why"....ummm....hmmmmm...sports car that's advertised as track ready?
Bottom line is that the suspension settles on new cars over the course of the first 1500 or so miles. That affects the alignment. On cars with wide tires, the affects can be rather dramatic. Other makes and models with wide tires have the same issues.
As an aside, no way would I set camber to zero if the intent is to do anything other than cruise down the interstate.
As to "why"....ummm....hmmmmm...sports car that's advertised as track ready?
Bottom line is that the suspension settles on new cars over the course of the first 1500 or so miles. That affects the alignment. On cars with wide tires, the affects can be rather dramatic. Other makes and models with wide tires have the same issues.
As an aside, no way would I set camber to zero if the intent is to do anything other than cruise down the interstate.
Anyway, I am dropping off the vette on the 21st before I go on vacation.. He assured me they will get the vibration fixed even if they have to call in GM Engineers to diagnose.. Thanks everybody for the tips and stories. I will make a point of reporting back what they found and the end results. Wish me luck! haha
04-11-2014, 09:15 PM
#58
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It'll beinteresting to find out what the issue is. 96gs gave you good advice, I will add its toe that wears tires more than negative camber numbers and its toe that helps the car feel settled when braking hard for a turn, so you want a little toe-in, not a lot. A little might be 1/16th to 1/8th total toe or 0 toe if you are not tracking the car. Mine is set for .02 degrees front and .1 degree rear, both negative, I track my car and it does feel a little loose when braking hard prior to turn - in. I also have 14000 miles on my OE tires and 7 track days with camber at -1.2 front and -0.7 rear - and I still wore the outside edge of the tires.
04-11-2014, 10:40 PM
#60
Hi guys/ gals, I just recently bought my very first C6 and I am fighting a losing battle and I am very disappointed.. The 2012 GS Coupe I bought was spotless inside and out.. 8500 miles, virtually a brand new car.. Until you drove it.. Local city driving is perfect.. Get on the highway and that is where I first discovered the problem.. Once you hit 68+ mph, there is a vibration in the steering wheel that is so annoying for a new car.. It's not a continuous vibration, its almost a whomp, whomp, whomp.. I don't know exactly how to explain it, but its like pulsing or oscilating.. It does is from about 68 on up to well over a hundred.. Seems to get really bad about 75 where I mostly drive.. Sometimes 85-90 is perfectly smooth, other times it shakes also.. Ive had the car up to 135 and it has been smooth, but vibrates at different speeds up and down.. 70-80 seems to be the worst.. Anyway, right after I bought the car, and after I noticed the vibration, I went to discount tire and had the wheels balanced. Didn't help.. I called them back and spoke with the manager and he suggested having it road force balanced.. Never heard of it.. I goggled it and found that my local Chevrolet Dealership did this service. Perfect!! I took the car there right away.. They road forced the tires and it was no better.. They said the front tires were slightly worn on the inside edges and that could be the problem. They also checked the alignment and it was spot on. After they checked and road forced the tires again, the vibration was still there. They recommended new front tires as they were worn 6/32 on the outside to 4/32 on the inside.. I bought brand new GY F1 runflats to replace the OE fronts and had them install and road force again.. This did help, but only about 25% better.. After spending about $2000 and 4 trips to the dealership chasing this problem, I am lost.. They are lost.. Don't know what to do next, but I know something is not right with this car... It has 8500 miles, brand new tires, that have been road forced and it drives worse than my C5 I just sold with 80K miles on it.. I would appreciate any suggestions on what I can check or try next.. Thank you all. Jason
Same exact problem I had. Spent $1800 on new rims and tires only to find out it was a right passenger side wheel bearing after taking it on some sweeping turns on the interstate to have the noise worsen when I turned one way and go quiet when i turned the other way.