rrobert22

With all the talk of the Mosler 900, how much would you guys be willing to pay to get a corvette that was mid-engined, 650 HP , top speed of 200+mph, and pulled over one G in the twisties. I ask because everybody allways says thats what a corvette should be, but most arent willing to put their money where their mouth is. No insult intended to anyone who said that, just curious. I would pay 80-100K. :eek: :seeya

Scissors

I will only pay what I can afford, no more.

Timmy's C5

Porsche will be glad to take your money.

HoldHard

No

Tom/99

80k plus for a Corvette, no.

SBR

Keep the Corvette fairly affordable ie. 50/60K range.

Jinx

I do not think that a Corvette should be mid-engined, 650hp, 200+ mph, and 1+G.

I would not pay the 100,000 year-2000 USD it would take to build such a car.

If people want a car like that, they can buy or commission one. Mosler, Saleen, Lamborghini, etc.

Don't screw up what the Corvette represents -- an affordable and liveable American supercar.

.Jinx

AP

No ... I will not pay ... 80K should not be the cost for a Corvette for a long long time ...

LymanSS

Yes, absolutely. I would in a heartbeat. Corvette has never been about "an affordable car that everyone can own." Maybe the rest of you guys with C5's don't realize it, but the Corvette is way way out of reach for the vast majority of people. The average car buyer in the US simply can not afford a car over 25K, and most of the people who buy those cars have to contribute a major chunk of their income to making payments on it. Premium sports cars will always be out of reach for most people. It's all about where you draw the line. If you own a C5, the line happens to be somewhere below you, and you are happy that that's where it is. But in my opinion it's self centered to say that it belongs there. Corvette isn't about making a car everyone can afford, because that's simply not possible. The Corvette is about incredible value. A car that outperforms any car in it's price bracket, and legitimately deserves to be competing with some of the best cars in the world. Well, an 80K 650 hp mid engine car pulling over 1 G and going over 200 mph is by all definitions a supercar. You would be talking about a car that for 80K can out perform anything offered by porsche, Ferrari (except the upcomming FX/F60 perhaps) Lamborghini, Aston Martin, Pagani, Panoz, Lotus, almost anyone. There are a handful of cars in the pipe right now that are promising power and performance like that, and they are all priced at 250,000+ If the Corvette came out with that sort of power and performed as described above, I would buy it so fast you wouldn't know where it went. Even if I had to sell my other cars and use it as a daily driver, to take me to the four jobs I would to pay for it. Seriously....if that's what it took to get a car like that...I'd do it. Because there's no one else producing a car like that which is even remotely close to that price. Anyone who says that this is a bad idea is just self centered and fearful. We know they won't stop making "affordable" corvettes (or some car that fills the Corvette's present niche) which are priced around where the current one is. So if they made a "super vette" or something like that, the only thing you would have to lose is that A: you might not afford one (boohoo...most people can't afford a C5) B: the "regular" corvette (or whatever they would market in place of the C5) might seem less cool (get over it. The car is what it is, and who cares if someone makes a faster car...it doesn't make yours any slower) C: It might devalue your car (How self centered is that! "I want to deprive the world of a great car so I don't lose a couple thousand dollars" Should we stop making cars altogether so yours doesn't depreciate?) I may come across as a bit harsh here, but the fact is this: Performance has improved by leaps and bounds in the past 15 or so years. Heck, 7 years ago you had to pay almost 70K for a vette with 405 hp, and now it's available at almost the same price as the standard coupe. In a few years, there's no reason they can't start making mass production cars with the sort of performance mentioned above. It might cost marginally more (as opposed to hundreds of thousands more) but come on...it's worth it. The trickle down alone would be worth it. If the vette went to 80K and performed like that, just imagine what they would do with the new GTO, or the Camaro replacement (when they get around to it). There will always be a car in your price bracket (untill you drop below the kia market that is) and if cars are pushing the envelope like the vette described above...well whatever you happen to afford 10 years from now will probably perform better than what you have now.....even if it ends up being a Camaro, or even a cavalier or something. So reject fear, think of the greater good, and realize that a slightly more expensive, but incredibly high performance vette would be a good thing for everyone.

Scott


[Modified by LymanSS, 4:45 AM 6/8/2002]

ZR1991

I hate to disagree with Scott (but I guess that's what these forums are about), but I have a different view.

Corvette has ALWAYS been about a sports car that every man could afford. You can't read a single history book where that isn't a signifigant issue (including and especially GM's misunderstanding the '53 thru '55 models). There isn't a comparison article where comparative cost isn't an issue, often being the only item swaying the overall points score to Corvette. And any Corvette model history book marks each price threshold a model year breaks as they go up in price.

Scott is right that they are out of the price range of most, but it is also very, very true that the Corvette is widley held as the most offordable of high performance sports cars. This is a position the Chevy will not relinquish for good or bad. That's why Corvette is not it's own brand. That's why GM has allowed the new Cadallic (don't start on me about the differences... they will be perceived as more alike than different, and no test of the cadallic will be written w/o a comparison).

But we also have the knowledge of history. The ZR1 was a true world class car (in contemporary standards, and in most ways, by even today's standards), but was a very expensive failure for Corvette. It will always be remembered in a bittersweet way as , "Wow, what a terriffic world sports car, certainly the best from America. Too bad it was a Corvette."

Please don't waste time flaming me, you won't get a reaction. I am extremely proud of Corvette history, ALL of it, and expect to own some form of Corvette til I die. Every time I drive my ZR1, I am reminded forcefully how wonderful a car it is... and how the group that understands it the least is traditional Corvette people.

As someone above said, "Porsche will be happy to take your money." He was smart enough to say in those few words what I have taken all this time to say. That "value" concept, and the marvelous car that came of it is what makes Corvette so unique. And ironacally, makes the remaining ZR1's so historically valuable. It wasn't the wrong car, it was simply the wrong brand.

No, I wouldn't pay $80k for a Corvette, a comment I can make with great bravado, not because I wouldn't (I would), but because they won't make it. And like it or not, it is that debate that keeps Corvette uniquely entrenched as the "heart throb of America."

Regards,

Timmy's C5

After reading this post, I would like to change my mind. Yes I would spend the 80K, because I don't believe anybody can build and sell a mid-engine 650Hp 200 MPH 1+G machine for 80K. The tap on a car of this performance level would be at least $100,000-$150,000 MORE. So at $80K it would be a steal.

Bwright

:cheers:

I agree 100%. I see nothing wrong with adding a second Corvette to the model line. Change is inevitable in every car. Corvette went from exposed headlights to fixed units, From a 6-cylinder to an 8-cylinder. Some sports car companies like Porsche and Ferrari offer relatively lower priced cars with one performance level and higher performing cars for those buyers who want and can afford it. Nothing wrong with that.

The Corvette has indeed always been relatively affordable. The higher performance variant, Z06, now offered is ~$50K base. This is beyond the reach of most car buyers yet GM sells over 7,000 of them each year along with the similar priced C5 convertible. Given the salary range of Corvette buyers it would seem that ~10% or 3,500 buyers can afford to spend twice the current base price of the C5 on a performance car. However, GM presently lacks the courage to broaden the Corvette line. Many Corvette buyers are thus forced to modify their cars or step out of the Corvette family to get higher performing cars from other manufacturers.

The Corvette has always been a great value. An $80K Vette with 650hp would be an incredible value relative to the the competition: $250K Ferrari 456GT and 575 Maranello and the $400K F60. Better value than the $300K Murcielago. With such a car the Corvette lineage would be almost complete with a model which from a performance standpoint was in effect beholden to nothing else on the road. This is as it should be.

Imagine if you will a world in which Porsche made only the Boxster and the 911, twin-turbo and GT2 never came to pass because Porsche was afraid to step up? Or a world in which the Ferrari 575 Maranello and 456GT did not exist because Ferrari was afraid to move beyond the price point of the 360 Modena? BMW made only regular cars and no M cars? This is the same mentality that the Corvette faces from some corners.

Many will say that the concept is ridiculous as people will never pay that much for a Chevrolet even with 50 years of road and race history. I have a more ridiculous concept for them: Do you believe people will pay for an $80K Dodge with devastating performance and a 10 year road and race history?

Build it GM and many, including me, will come.

Tom73

supercars??? Hummmm....

As one that grew up in the classic muscle car era, I always have to look over my shoulder to see where the gov't and insurance companies are. It is surprising that they have not shut down the supercar business just as they did the muscle cars.

tom...

Jinx

Okay Bwright, LymanSS, you're right. A second Corvette will sell if it hits a similar value mark relative to the competition. As it would probably sell if it wasn't a Corvette. (Cadillac Cien? I dunno.)

But a big-money Corvette should be more than a factory tuner car, even a really good factory tuner car like ZR1. It should be a different car. (The mid-engined badazz floated here would certainly be that.) The $80,000 to $100,000 market deserves its own chassis. Little doubt the $30,000-car roots of ZR1 held it back in the minds of some in that lofty market (even if they were really good roots).

I just don't want GM to stop making the mind-boggling sports car at twice the price of a family sedan and half the price of the competition -- us less-rich guys want our toys too. :-)

Now if GM would just put the same kind of effort into a $30,000 Buick they'd be golden.

.Jinx

AP

Mosler is a cool car ... but looks too much like the Saleen S7 ...

Zivnuska

My intention is to purchase a C6 Vert. The current popular speculation is that it will have a 6.0 L engine and produce about 400 hp. I suspect that the sticker will be close to 60k when equipped with typical options that most people want and the inevitable improvements that will come with the next generation Vette. I will want all the goodies.

Would I ante up 20k more (80k total) for a mid engine 650hp supercar? Yes, Yes, Yes. I'm not sure that could be done for less than 100k which is more than I want to spend. Even if it is out of my price range, I hope that option could be offered to others. The comments about other performance car lines having more than one model are right on. The real question is could GM make a profit doing two versions of the Vette and at what price/volume is the project viable?

BuckyThreadkiller

While we'd all like the C6 to be a snake eating supercar, I think the situation could more easily summed up by asking -
"Would you pay $80,000 for a Chevrolet?"

The Vette is a halo vehicle for Chevy - taking it to that cost extreme while killing off the Camaro takes the Vette out of that role. It becomes too far away from the Malibus. impalas and the Tahoes that Chevy is actually selling. Look around. Will Chevy have a true performance car other than the Vette when the C6 debuts? A decaled Monte Carlo?

Perhaps if GM was willing to spin Corvette off as a brand separate from Chevy and have entry, touring, performance, ultra-high performance models it might fly. I worry that long term, with the Cien concept and the XLR, the brass at GM might be moving Cadillac into that position rather than Corvette. Both of those cars could have a better marketing bump for Caddy and for GM as a whole since it could return Cad to a flagship position.

My 2¢

LymanSS

Remember that it's not just a halo vehicle for Chevy now. It's a halo vehicle for the entire GM line. I'll be honest and say that my impression of the Vette (both before and after buying one) definitely influenced my decision to buy a Cadillac. So they don't have to restrict them selves to something that only impresses Chevy buyers.

Scott

Jinx

The SSR. And then a new Camaro late in the decade.

.Jinx

Mako

$80k for the Cien and I am IN!!!!


Quite simply, it is time for GM to step up, lead, and stop following the Viper. A 425hp C6 Z06 WILL NOT CUT IT GM! ARE YOU LISTENING? NO MORE DISGRACE TO THE BOW TIE STOCK VS. STOCK AGAINST THE VIPER!

As you will note from my signature, I HAVE put my $$ where my post is! However, a factory warranty car that can be serviced by the dealer network is far superior to a tuner car no matter how great the tuner. The current Z06 is not close, stock out of the box, to having the "right stuff" needed. For example, it needs: 100hp; real brakes; tranny and differential coolers; a better interior and stereo; heavy duty radiator and engine oil cooler; and heavier bars and shocks ($25k-$35K). Then, IT looks down at the Snake--not the other way around!

I say, produce two price-point cars so everyone can stay loyal to GM. Otherwise, my next ride is a Viper (Gen III Coupe) or a GT-40.


[Modified by Mako, 7:55 PM 6/8/2002]