Would you buy ZL1 over Grand Sport?
08-16-2012, 10:37 PM
#121
Team Owner
08-16-2012, 10:37 PM
#122
The performance differential would be hard to tell on a street drive. With the salesman along and with a new engine you weren't running wide open throttle up to red line through the gears so you really don't know what it would perform like. Part throttle bursts really don't tell you anything. How often have you driven your GS at WOT, to the red line in each gear?
The brakes on a new car need to be burnished in so taking a new car off the lot and hammering the brakes will not result in really good braking. The car has to have the brakes burnished or be driven a few hundred miles.
Poor view is a problem with the Camaro, weight is a problem which affects overall performance. A big engine and larger tires can make up for the extra weight when accelerating but the brakes will still suffer and cornering will not be as good.
However, if you need 4 seats and want a Chevy that pretty much leaves you one choice.
Bill
The brakes on a new car need to be burnished in so taking a new car off the lot and hammering the brakes will not result in really good braking. The car has to have the brakes burnished or be driven a few hundred miles.
Poor view is a problem with the Camaro, weight is a problem which affects overall performance. A big engine and larger tires can make up for the extra weight when accelerating but the brakes will still suffer and cornering will not be as good.
However, if you need 4 seats and want a Chevy that pretty much leaves you one choice.
Bill
08-16-2012, 10:46 PM
#123
Team Owner
didnt this zl1 set records at neuhenburg or something like that? it supposedly has world class handling and all around world class performance. i think you would be a lot better with this than a gs. better resale value. rarity, and better overall performance..plus it's still a chevrolet.
08-16-2012, 10:48 PM
#124
Thanks, that brings back memories. My door panels looked more like yours but the console with gauges looks like mine. View of all 4 gauges totally unobstructed. I put on a smaller steering wheel (black foam, I believe), a Hurst T-Handle on the shifter, a Craig 8-track hanging below the dash in the middle and (of course) a Hang Ten gas pedal.
08-16-2012, 10:49 PM
#125
Instructor
08-16-2012, 10:53 PM
#126
Melting Slicks
didnt this zl1 set records at neuhenburg or something like that? it supposedly has world class handling and all around world class performance. i think you would be a lot better with this than a gs. better resale value. rarity, and better overall performance..plus it's still a chevrolet.
08-16-2012, 10:56 PM
#127
Team Owner
Speaking of Camaros, the first all stock customer run 1/4 mile for the ultra rare/ultra cool 2012 COPO Camaro was just released. 
2012 COPO Camaro production #3 runs a stock 8 second quarter mile (video)
By Patrick Rall on Tue, 08/14/2012 - 10:36
Auto News
Chevrolet
GM
Yesterday we brought you the news that the first group of 2012 Chevrolet COPO Camaro drag cars had left the factory en route to the private owners around the country and today we have our first look at the new COPO Camaro in action – with stunning results of an 8.88 quarter mile with a trap speed of 142.9 miles per hour. http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...ter-mile-video
By Patrick Rall on Tue, 08/14/2012 - 10:36
Auto News
Chevrolet
GM
Yesterday we brought you the news that the first group of 2012 Chevrolet COPO Camaro drag cars had left the factory en route to the private owners around the country and today we have our first look at the new COPO Camaro in action – with stunning results of an 8.88 quarter mile with a trap speed of 142.9 miles per hour. http://www.motorauthority.com/news/1...ter-mile-video
08-16-2012, 11:02 PM
#129
Team Owner
I dont see how you can talk rarity since its just now coming out and the performance is about the same as the GS as the GS is just barely behind the Z06 in certain numbers and the Camaro weighs more so I doubt it handles better than the GS. The only thing it has going for it is the TQ the SC gives it and it still wont touch the ZR1 SC.
08-16-2012, 11:06 PM
#130
Sr.Random input generator
Thread Starter
didnt this zl1 set records at neuhenburg or something like that? it supposedly has world class handling and all around world class performance. i think you would be a lot better with this than a gs. better resale value. rarity, and better overall performance..plus it's still a chevrolet.
08-16-2012, 11:08 PM
#131
Team Owner
I think it's faster than GS only at VIR, where the rough road surface lets the high tech 3rd gen MR suspension shine; it's even faster than a 911 Turbo at VIR. It would probably be faster on tracks with very long straightaways, but I'm not sure if it would be faster than a GS at a regular track.
08-16-2012, 11:22 PM
#133
2012 Camaro ZL1 Takes on Nurburgring | Chevrolet - YouTube
► 8:13► 8:13
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mhjGERugh0Oct 6, 2011 - 8 min - Uploaded by Chevrolet
Watch as the 580-horsepower Camaro ZL1 carves up Nurburgring in 7:41.27 - bringing the Camaro neck and ...
► 8:13► 8:13
www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mhjGERugh0Oct 6, 2011 - 8 min - Uploaded by Chevrolet
Watch as the 580-horsepower Camaro ZL1 carves up Nurburgring in 7:41.27 - bringing the Camaro neck and ...
08-16-2012, 11:59 PM
#134
Melting Slicks
cuz of the SC TQ I would bet but how does it do against the SC ZR1 and not talking price here just same engine on two different cars? I know on a course it will do better than the GS but its straight line numbers are not that better than the GS. And again most do straight line than course.
avg numbers: ZL1 0 60 3.8 1/4 mile 12.1
GS 0 60 3.9 1/4 milw 12.3
Not much of a difference for a SC car but I agree on a road course it will do better having more power and TQ.
avg numbers: ZL1 0 60 3.8 1/4 mile 12.1
GS 0 60 3.9 1/4 milw 12.3
Not much of a difference for a SC car but I agree on a road course it will do better having more power and TQ.
Last edited by S'vette; 08-17-2012 at 12:07 AM.
08-17-2012, 12:13 AM
#135
Race Director
I think it's faster than GS only at VIR, where the rough road surface lets the high tech 3rd gen MR suspension shine; it's even faster than a 911 Turbo at VIR. It would probably be faster on tracks with very long straightaways, but I'm not sure if it would be faster than a GS at a regular track.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder though...I like old ones, but the new ones are not for me. I will keep my GS...and if the GS would leave I would switch to Ford.
08-17-2012, 12:24 AM
#137
Melting Slicks
08-17-2012, 12:35 AM
#139
Sr.Random input generator
Thread Starter
Check out Car & Driver's Lightning lap times for a more consistent comparison:
Please note it would be misleading to compare these numbers below with GM's, since they usually do this test in January, so the times will be a bit off from the best numbers you can get in spring/summer time, not to mention driver variance. They'll definitely add ZL1 to this list; looking forward to it.
As you can see from the list below, Grand Sport has nothing to be ashamed of. Grand Sport actually gets very close to the regular Z06 with its more compliant suspension since, as I said, VIR is a rough-surfaced track unlike most European tracks. At a track with better pavement, Z06 would certainly increase the gap.
This is certainly a track that favors compliant suspension and high HP, which is what ZL1 is all about. That said, I don't see ZL1 dominating the track at tighter and especially better paved tracks. The magnificient 3rd gen magnetic suspension certainly helps ZL1 mitigate its huge handling penalty due to extra weight at tracks like VIR, but it would be naive to think it would keep the same advantage at well paved, tight tracks. I'm looking forward to the lightning lap results of ZL1 early next year 
EDIT: I'd highly recommend that you follow the link to view the full list, and the performance graph on C&D site.
Please note it would be misleading to compare these numbers below with GM's, since they usually do this test in January, so the times will be a bit off from the best numbers you can get in spring/summer time, not to mention driver variance. They'll definitely add ZL1 to this list; looking forward to it.
As you can see from the list below, Grand Sport has nothing to be ashamed of. Grand Sport actually gets very close to the regular Z06 with its more compliant suspension since, as I said, VIR is a rough-surfaced track unlike most European tracks. At a track with better pavement, Z06 would certainly increase the gap.
1 2:45.9 MOSLER MT900S LL3 11/08
2 2:48.6 DODGE VIPER SRT10 ACR LL3 11/08
3 2:49.8 MOSLER PHOTON LL5 2/11
4 2:50.7 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1 (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires) LL3 2/12
5 2:51.8 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1 (Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires) LL3 2/10
6 2:51.8 LAMBORGHINI GALLARDO LP570-4 SUPERLEGGERA LL5 2/11
7 2:52.3 KTM X-BOW LLU 2/10
8 2:53.2 NISSAN GT-R LL3 2/12
9 2:53.5 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 (Z07) LL3 2/11
10 2:53.9 LAMBORGHINI MURCIÉLAGO LP670-4 SV LL5 2/10
11 2:54.6 FERRARI 430 SCUDERIA LL5 11/08
12 2:55.6 NISSAN GT-R LL3 11/08
13 2:55.9 PORSCHE 911 GT3 RS LL4 2/11
14 2:57.4 DODGE VIPER SRT10 LL3 10/07
15 2:57.5 PORSCHE 911 TURBO S LL4 2/11
16 2:57.6 ARIEL ATOM 3 LLU 2/10
17 2:58.0 MERCEDES-BENZ SLS AMG LL4 2/11
18 2:58.2 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 LL3 8/07
19 2:58.5 CHEVROLET CORVETTE GRAND SPORT LL2 2/10
20 2:59.0 NISSAN GT-R (all-season tires) LL3 11/08
21 2:59.5 AUDI R8 5.2 FSI LL4 2/10
22 3:00.7 FORD GT LL4 11/06
23 3:00.7 PORSCHE PANAMERA TURBO S LL4 2/12
24 3:01.1 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 LL3 11/06
25 3:01.2 CHEVROLET CORVETTE (Z51) LL2 11/08
26 3:01.6 DODGE VIPER SRT10 LL3 11/06
27 3:01.8 PORSCHE 911 GT3 LL3 8/07
28 3:02.8 FORD MUSTANG BOSS 302 LAGUNA SECA LL2 2/12
29 3:03.6 CHEVROLET CORVETTE (Z51) LL2 8/07
2 2:48.6 DODGE VIPER SRT10 ACR LL3 11/08
3 2:49.8 MOSLER PHOTON LL5 2/11
4 2:50.7 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1 (Michelin Pilot Sport Cup tires) LL3 2/12
5 2:51.8 CHEVROLET CORVETTE ZR1 (Michelin Pilot Sport PS2 tires) LL3 2/10
6 2:51.8 LAMBORGHINI GALLARDO LP570-4 SUPERLEGGERA LL5 2/11
7 2:52.3 KTM X-BOW LLU 2/10
8 2:53.2 NISSAN GT-R LL3 2/12
9 2:53.5 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 (Z07) LL3 2/11
10 2:53.9 LAMBORGHINI MURCIÉLAGO LP670-4 SV LL5 2/10
11 2:54.6 FERRARI 430 SCUDERIA LL5 11/08
12 2:55.6 NISSAN GT-R LL3 11/08
13 2:55.9 PORSCHE 911 GT3 RS LL4 2/11
14 2:57.4 DODGE VIPER SRT10 LL3 10/07
15 2:57.5 PORSCHE 911 TURBO S LL4 2/11
16 2:57.6 ARIEL ATOM 3 LLU 2/10
17 2:58.0 MERCEDES-BENZ SLS AMG LL4 2/11
18 2:58.2 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 LL3 8/07
19 2:58.5 CHEVROLET CORVETTE GRAND SPORT LL2 2/10
20 2:59.0 NISSAN GT-R (all-season tires) LL3 11/08
21 2:59.5 AUDI R8 5.2 FSI LL4 2/10
22 3:00.7 FORD GT LL4 11/06
23 3:00.7 PORSCHE PANAMERA TURBO S LL4 2/12
24 3:01.1 CHEVROLET CORVETTE Z06 LL3 11/06
25 3:01.2 CHEVROLET CORVETTE (Z51) LL2 11/08
26 3:01.6 DODGE VIPER SRT10 LL3 11/06
27 3:01.8 PORSCHE 911 GT3 LL3 8/07
28 3:02.8 FORD MUSTANG BOSS 302 LAGUNA SECA LL2 2/12
29 3:03.6 CHEVROLET CORVETTE (Z51) LL2 8/07
EDIT: I'd highly recommend that you follow the link to view the full list, and the performance graph on C&D site.
Last edited by X25; 08-17-2012 at 01:08 AM.
