LDB

First let me admit that I cannot answer your question with 100% confidence. I have been retired for 2 years, and have not seen specific tests results from my company or from my company’s analysis of competitor’s fuels for that length of time. But what I observed from 1968-2010 is that the number one company on cleanliness keeps changing as everybody develops better additives, and it would be nearly impossible for me to believe that at any given time, the number one company is dramatically better than number two. Is number one in 2012 dramatically better than number one from 1980? You bet. Are the top tier brands taken as a group in 2012 dramatically better than those who sell EPA minimum gas in 2012? You bet. But is any given top tier 2012 gas dramatically better than any other 2012 top tier gas? Not likely. As far as Shell’s current claims, their web site says V-Power has “five times more cleaning agents than required by federal standards” and also that they use 20% more of their nitrogen-based additive than they used to. But neither statement says anything specific about resulting engine cleanliness. One would presume that as an indicator of general improvement, these things mean that V-Power does an even better job on deposits now than it used to, but there is no way to tell quantitatively what that means. To be quantitatively meaningful, they would have to say that engine testing shows they have some specific percentage less deposits than some specific other brand, or some meaningful group like the average of all top tier brands, and they don’t say anything like that. Their ads simply show the very real difference between engine parts like valves that have run on V-Power versus those run on EPA minimum gas. Chevron ads show similar benefits for Techron. But guess what? If you showed valves run on Shell versus Chevron, you’d probably need a very large magnifying glass to see the difference, and not only that, the guy who was a smidgen better this year would probably be a smidgen worse next year as they constantly leapfrog each other with continuing improvements. So my advice to people remains, use top tier, but beyond that, buy what is convenient. Advertising buzz words like Techron, Nitrogen Enriched, and so forth, are just that, namely, advertising buzz words. Top tier is one of the rare ones that is real, not a buzz word.

gcope63

I have another question..
What is better, fresh gas thats not top tier or stale top teir gas?
With the prices continuing up the top tier gas is going to be sitting longer than the cheaper stuff, how much affect does this have on the quality of the gas?

Gary

JoesC5

Locally, non top tier brands are priced the same as top tier brands. So it's a moot point

PatriotZ

Thanks LDB.....this is perhaps one of the most intelligent and knowledgeable answers I have read on the Forum... good stuff indeed.....
ps.....my Z runs just fine on Safeway, and Costco fuel, and has for 25,000 miles......

LDB

In general, I don’t think there’s much of an issue with “stale” gas. Sure, there are isolated horror stories. But most of the stories concern gas that has already been dispensed from a station, and then stored over the winter is a gas can, or a stored car, or a lawn mower, or some such thing. Where cold temperatures are involved, it can cause a bit of water to drop out of solution. If that happens at a gas station’s storage tank, no problem. The underground tanks have water draw boots, so the water will not get to your tank. But if it happens in your car’s tank, or a gas can, or a lawn mower, there’s no way for the water to be drawn off. A second thing that can happen is that if the storage container is not tight, the lightest components can evaporate. This is a problem in lawn mowers, both becuase their tanks are vented, and because lawn mowers get very hard to start when the lightest components have evaporated. But as far as worrying about stale gas from gas stations, I think you are in “struck by lightning” territory. Sure, if you’re on a golf course with a thunderstorm approaching, it ain’t bright to stay out there. Sure, if your gas station is in Timbuktu, servicing 3 cars per day, maybe there’s reason to be wary. But on a day to day basis, I’m not going to worry much about being struck by lightning or getting stale gas.

LDB

Thanks in return, but just to be sure you aren’t mis-reading my post about Shell versus Chevron and additive concentration versus deposits, let me point out that Safeway and Costco are not top tier. I do not know where they are in the spectrum from EPA minimum to top tier. Even if they are EPA minimum or close to it, you will not have a disaster with your car. EPA gas is not horrid stuff. But as stated in an earlier post in this thread, I can pretty much guarantee that if you tore your engine down, it would be dirtier than someone’s who had been using Shell or Chevron (or some other top tier all along). Enough dirtier to give you noticeable problems? Apparently not so far. But to at least some extent, you are rolling the dice.

carnut08

I use Chevron exclusively and never have issues with clogged injectors or rough idle. There's no free lunch...You get what you pay for.

LS WON

Costco driver told me they get their fuel from Tosco Refinery.

Mikado463

Believe what you want but for those interested...........

http://www.toptiergas.com/index.html

FWIW, last month while heading home from a snowmobile trip in upstate NY I filled up with NON- Ethanol gas, got almost 3 mpg better mileage !

C3 Vette Fan

The gas you put in your vehicle makes a clear difference.

phileaglesfan

I said he could he right. I'll Google it real quick and post again if I find anything.

SanDiegoBert

Not really. I keep my cars 7-10 years, usually bust 100K miles, and have never had injector problems, just like you. However, I have bought gas from Pemex stations in Tijuana. small indepependent refiners, big names, Costco and whatever. No gas-related problems, ever. I'm sure a knowledgable petroleum engineer can give me a very erudite explanation of the benefits of top-tier gas . . . But frankly, my cars don't give a damn. I guess I don't either.

I just deal in results, and no gas-related problems is a fine result. Having said that, please feel free to buy whatever you want, it's a free country . . . Well, it used to be, anyway.

LS WON

Had to replace fuel injectors in my other car that I used to use Shell and Arco gas.

MikeyTX

Isn't Motor Honey supposed to go in the oil, not the gas tank ?

2toys

If you want to know what fuel to use, the best chip dip, or proper tire pressures always, ALWAYS, trust the stockboy or clerk in the check out line. These people are worldly, up on current issues and more knowledgeable than most who post here. Amen

need-for-speed

Our company operates natural gas pipelines (where I work) and liquid products pipelines. I got chance to talk to our liquid products pipeline guys when we were at charm school management training.

It works a little something like this:

All of the retailers get the same gasoline at the pipeline terminal. Each retailer has their own tanks on site with their special blend of additives. The truck driver punches in a code at the loading rack. His additives are mixed in with the fungible gasoline (which must meet a specified contractual spec) at the rack creating Brand A's "special blend" which is pumped into his truck.

That's what I was told and by the Managers and Directors present who operate our terminals. We were consuming ethanol at the time so that is my disclaimer.

greengo

Exxon/Mobil does a ton of business with Iran....
who is killing our US troops
So I avoid those two at all cost!

SanDiegoBert

Good point. Citgo i.e. Hugo Chavez/Venezuela are on my 'Avoid' list.

MikeyTX

The h*ll ya say .................... My gas has s t d ! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1CxU2Jcty_U

LDB

Neither of these above two posts are inconsistent with mine. On the terminals, I said that sometimes they segregate the base gasoline and other times they don’t. It depends on how the local marketing people have chosen to set it up. My main reservation about hearing people say “it’s all from one pipe” is that often, they extend that to thinking all gas is the same. Regardless of whether your base gas comes from a terminal that does or does not segregate, by the time it gets to the gas station, it is different with regard to the additive package. It may or may not be different with regard to the base gas, but since the additive package is the main influence on engine cleanliness, and additive packages are different from brand to brand, then the gas you get is different from brand to brand.

As far as driving 100000 miles with no problems on low cost gas, sure, it can happen. I’ve repeatedly said that minimum standard EPA gas is not horrible. I’ve simply said it results in engines having more deposits than top tier gas. Furthermore, while I haven’t said it as often, there is not a perfect correlation between engine cleanliness and engine problems. Statistics are a funny thing. A dirty engine can run fine and a clean engine can have problems, just like a smoker can live to 100 and a non-smoker can die of lung cancer at age 50. But I can categorically guarantee you that if you tear down an engine that has gone 100000 miles on minimum standard EPA gas and compare it to one that’s run top tier gas, you’d see a marked difference in cleanliness. That does not guarantee the dirty engine will have problems and the clean one won’t. But I think you ought to be able to see that the odds do not favor the dirty engine.