The Agony of the "DEAL"
02-13-2012, 12:48 PM
#41
I ordered a 2012 GS from MacMulkin just last week and here's why:
1. Price (about 10K off msrp) NO HAGGLING
2. NO DEALER FEES
3. Corvette Forum Reputation
I can't express enough how good it feels to have no extra gouging in the form of "Document Preparation Fees". Those have to be the biggest scam in recent years for us car buyers. It's like getting a 100 ticket for running a red light and then having to pay an additional 50 bucks for the cop to write out the ticket. Give me a friggin break. By the way, over the weekend, I stopped by Paul Massey Chev in RI to look at some vettes. The 14 yr veteran salesman came over and asked can I help you? I said no thanks just lookin, I already ordered a car from MacMulkin and I'm just waiting for it to come in. He said "Why did you buy from MacMulkin instead of us" I said because he took about 10 grand off the price without asking. He laughed and said, "No way he's going to honor that price when your car arrives". I said "Why don't you go on your computer right now and you'll see EXACTLY what I'm talking about. It's right there for all to see. I'll come back and show you the paperwork when my car arrives". I CAN"T WAIT.
1. Price (about 10K off msrp) NO HAGGLING
2. NO DEALER FEES
3. Corvette Forum Reputation
I can't express enough how good it feels to have no extra gouging in the form of "Document Preparation Fees". Those have to be the biggest scam in recent years for us car buyers. It's like getting a 100 ticket for running a red light and then having to pay an additional 50 bucks for the cop to write out the ticket. Give me a friggin break. By the way, over the weekend, I stopped by Paul Massey Chev in RI to look at some vettes. The 14 yr veteran salesman came over and asked can I help you? I said no thanks just lookin, I already ordered a car from MacMulkin and I'm just waiting for it to come in. He said "Why did you buy from MacMulkin instead of us" I said because he took about 10 grand off the price without asking. He laughed and said, "No way he's going to honor that price when your car arrives". I said "Why don't you go on your computer right now and you'll see EXACTLY what I'm talking about. It's right there for all to see. I'll come back and show you the paperwork when my car arrives". I CAN"T WAIT.
02-13-2012, 12:59 PM
#42
Instructor
maybe this helps. buying a new car, do not go to the dealer. go only when it is time to sign and pick up the car. do details and negotiating by fax or email.
that way, all is clear, documented. simply do all your homework online or otherwise. have bought new cars for my family members that way, painless, and best price. almost all dealers will do it, especially these days of the internet. the days of them waiting by the entrance of the dealership to "attack" are ending, but not over by any means. if you need to test drive, do it separate. just tell them you are not there to buy but in the decision making progress.
that way, all is clear, documented. simply do all your homework online or otherwise. have bought new cars for my family members that way, painless, and best price. almost all dealers will do it, especially these days of the internet. the days of them waiting by the entrance of the dealership to "attack" are ending, but not over by any means. if you need to test drive, do it separate. just tell them you are not there to buy but in the decision making progress.
That said, only certain dealers (or nameplates) will work with you this way. In my case, Nissan is the easiest to work with. Both mine and my wife's DD's are Nissans (and I'm trying to convince her to trade hers in for a GT-R
) Chevy is decent, especially those who know vettes (most don't). The absolute worst is Toyota!! I've tried to buy a Toyota 3 times, and ALWAYS walked out hating the car due to the way they do business...and I've tried a TON of Toyota dealerships.Go yo www.carbuyingtips.com, lots of good info there
02-13-2012, 01:14 PM
#44
Just because you are used to going to stores and and buying your food and goods at a set price doesn't mean those things were always non-negotiable. It used to be that you negotiated for everything not just your house and your car. If you had experience in negotiating more things you would actually enjoy the negotiation since there is a definite challenge in doing a good job. By the way the only time the Saturn deal was non negotiable was when you didn't have a trade in. If you had a trade in the whole thing was a big negotiation.
If you have done your research and know the costs you are an informed Customer who has a big advantage over the dealer. You don't have to buy the car but he has to sell it. So let them tell you the price, you make a reasonable offer and then keep your mouth shut. If need be walk away. You may listen to their sales pitch and reasons why they can't do something but that doesn't mean you have to hear it. Stick to your guns and as long as you have a reasonable offer on the table it will be taken.
If you have done your research and know the costs you are an informed Customer who has a big advantage over the dealer. You don't have to buy the car but he has to sell it. So let them tell you the price, you make a reasonable offer and then keep your mouth shut. If need be walk away. You may listen to their sales pitch and reasons why they can't do something but that doesn't mean you have to hear it. Stick to your guns and as long as you have a reasonable offer on the table it will be taken.
that reminds me of my looney grandmother - last time I ever went with her to walmart she was trying to haggle prices with the people at the register...I just dont have the patience to deal with the small talk and time wasting bs.
I literally want to go in and go out as soon as possible - do you have what I want? no? okay ill move on next dealership (and dont get in my way). If you do have what i want, whats the absolute lowest price out the door. If its good, give me all the documents to sign off immediately and have my car ready to go. I want to get on the road and enjoy my damn car, not be there until its too dark to have fun in my new toy.
02-13-2012, 01:26 PM
#45
Safety Car
two things i hate doing - buying cars and buying cellphones. you can come in saying youll pay this amount and you dont want anything else (no warranty or contract), theyll say okay and act like they understand, then 5 minutes later theyve totally forgotten what the hell you just talked to them about.
I don't mind haggling - I generally know what I'm going to pay and what I'll walk away from before going to the Dealer in the first place.
I hate it when I say "I'm offering $XXX, out the door" and they say Deal! but then it turns into "$XXX plus taxes, oh and the title, oh and the interior protection plan - oh, and we forgot to add on the roadside assistance and extended warranty" when I go to sign the paperwork.
Just goes to remind me that they're not listening to a damn thing I say, or they ARE, but they think I'm a moron who doesn't know any better? With that said, I made a take-it-or-leave-it offer with an out-of-state dealer when I bought the Z06... they took it, and then held the car for me until I flew out to inspect the car and sign. I know they had at least one serious buyer that they turned away during the 3 days it took for me to arrange a flight, so the flip side is that there are still some decent dealers out there.
Last edited by Random84; 02-13-2012 at 01:33 PM.
02-13-2012, 01:28 PM
#47
Drifting
One of the problems with local dealers and Corvettes is the number of "suckers" in the market.
Most local dealers get a limited number of Corvettes and want to make all they can on each one. They know that if they wait until May, June, July, some old geezer will walk in and pay a lot more than what the forum dealers would charge.
But to the geezer, the convenience is worth the $2-5K more they will pay. They spoil it for the rest of us who would like to buy local.
Most local dealers get a limited number of Corvettes and want to make all they can on each one. They know that if they wait until May, June, July, some old geezer will walk in and pay a lot more than what the forum dealers would charge.
But to the geezer, the convenience is worth the $2-5K more they will pay. They spoil it for the rest of us who would like to buy local.
02-13-2012, 01:39 PM
#48
Instructor
I usually research something to death before I buy so when I go in to the dealership I usually know more about what I am buying then the salesman! I usually will check out the local dealerships to see which one is least abrasive and go there, it really helps if I can find a good salesman who isn't pushy when I am just looking and answers all of my questions.. He will be the one I call when its time to buy! In fact that is what I am doing now, went down to test drive a 2008 Corvette on Saturday, wasn't really interested in the car right now, just wanted to see how the dealership was so when I am ready to buy this Summer I know where to go.. Turns out it was a really good dealership and I will definately be back.
It seems to me that there are a lot of bad salesman/good dealerships out there too. The issue is that your first impression of the dealership is the salesman and if he/she irritates you so much you leave you never get to find out if the dealership itself was good, just a bad salesman...
Gary
It seems to me that there are a lot of bad salesman/good dealerships out there too. The issue is that your first impression of the dealership is the salesman and if he/she irritates you so much you leave you never get to find out if the dealership itself was good, just a bad salesman...
Gary
02-13-2012, 02:07 PM
#49
Instructor
I think its even harder to find a dealer to service our cars carefully, competently and care for the car the way we do vs the corvette is just another job to knock out as fast, as cheaply and as profitably as possible. There are good ones but we need to look. As for buying, all these comments tell me to buy from the few who do it right. Tommy Jr in NH, Tim in Redwood city, Ca and a few others. Its worth the shipping or picking up at the museum
02-13-2012, 02:46 PM
#50
), most other times it's a hassle indeed. I'm in the process of buying a car for myself now, and hope to end up on a '12 GS 4LT CE, but haven't found a deal I feel comfortable with. Made an offer today on an advertised 'no negotiation' price on a car with more options I wanted to include shipping, and was declined. Will look at Porsches now, and until I feel 100% sure about the purchase, will pull the trigger. What I've noticed is as I grow older (just turned 50), I'm turning more and more 'value conscious'. I used to pay $50K for cars without a second thought, but now, even though I'm in a lot better financial shape, if I can't justify a car in my mind, I just won't buy it. And don't feel the itch to own it either. It helps I can drive much nicer cars than my own if I want to, but I don't feel comfortable doing that. Nor do I like the attention. Good post man.
02-13-2012, 03:16 PM
#51
Burning Brakes
02-13-2012, 03:51 PM
#52
I have bought many new cars and trucks in my lifetime. Couple of things i want to mention.
First is I have NEVER been asked for the keys to my vehicle. WTH?
As others have mentioned, walk if they don't like the deal. They often call you back and talk a better deal.
First is I have NEVER been asked for the keys to my vehicle. WTH?
As others have mentioned, walk if they don't like the deal. They often call you back and talk a better deal.
02-14-2012, 10:59 AM
#53
Melting Slicks
02-14-2012, 11:45 AM
#55
Pro
When I ordered my '11, I received a couple of quotes from forum sponsors so before I proceeded with ordering from them I took the lowest quote to my local dealer and asked to speak to the sales manager. Introduced myself, handed him the quote and said, this is what I can get the car for, I am willing to give you $300 in addition for the trouble I will save shipping documents back and forth, but the bottom dollar price must equal this quote plus the $300 I mentioned, that goes for any dealer fees etc. I told him I didn't need an answer right away, gave him 5 days and my cell number. He called 3 days later and agreed to the deal, we emailed so that I would have his quote in writing. Very easy process. He also did not have to pay comission to a sales guy this way. Now I did NCM delivery so this meant that the dealer never saw the car, so no prep work was needed, etc. So that could possibly have factored in. I was very happy with the deal I got. My car stickered for just over 70k with all options and I paid just over 57k before tags and taxes... It was a win-win, I got to deal with local dealer, they made a little money, I got my car!
02-14-2012, 11:54 AM
#56
Safety Car
I absolutely love the "DEAL" when buying a vehicle. 5 of my last 6 vehicle purchases have been done over the internet and its an absolute fantastic way to car shop.
I first determine exactly what I want buy looking, touching, test driving in person. I then use my savings/credit to secure my own financing thru my own lender. Either way Im shopping with "cash in hand" and dont have to worry about that at the dealer. I use Cars.com, Autotrader.com and other resources to locate the vehicles that fit my price range and greatly interest me. From there I do all contact via email, as I have no need/want to conduct business over a phone. Its quick, its haggle free and its "on paper" so theres no questions about what was promised. After verifying the price, car, deal.. I place a $500-1000 deposit on my credit card and usually see the vehicle in person first before finalizing the paper work.
With my '07 C6 that I bought last year.. I was so confident in the car & transaction.. I finalized the paperwork sight unseen and let the dealer run my credit to secure an even better financing deal. Since I purchased the vehicle at a Mercedes Benz dealer.. I was picked up from the airport in a S600 Benz and offered lunch.. while the dealer finished detailing & prepping the car. The car was thoroughly cleaned, buffed, all fluids checked and the gas tank filled. Within 2 hours of arriving at the dealership, I was on my back home.. a 1132 mile drive. To make it even better.. my 65 year old father (who wouldnt dare purchase a car over a computer lol) accompanied me on the entire trip. He could not believe the "deal" I conducted.. including the vehicle itself, the price, the financing and the absolute fantastic customer service I received from Mercedes of Kansas City.
As you can imagine.. whenever someone needs help car shopping.. my father now recommends them directly to me
I am sure there are some GM dealers who are able to provide the same service when buying new/used.
I first determine exactly what I want buy looking, touching, test driving in person. I then use my savings/credit to secure my own financing thru my own lender. Either way Im shopping with "cash in hand" and dont have to worry about that at the dealer. I use Cars.com, Autotrader.com and other resources to locate the vehicles that fit my price range and greatly interest me. From there I do all contact via email, as I have no need/want to conduct business over a phone. Its quick, its haggle free and its "on paper" so theres no questions about what was promised. After verifying the price, car, deal.. I place a $500-1000 deposit on my credit card and usually see the vehicle in person first before finalizing the paper work.
With my '07 C6 that I bought last year.. I was so confident in the car & transaction.. I finalized the paperwork sight unseen and let the dealer run my credit to secure an even better financing deal. Since I purchased the vehicle at a Mercedes Benz dealer.. I was picked up from the airport in a S600 Benz and offered lunch.. while the dealer finished detailing & prepping the car. The car was thoroughly cleaned, buffed, all fluids checked and the gas tank filled. Within 2 hours of arriving at the dealership, I was on my back home.. a 1132 mile drive. To make it even better.. my 65 year old father (who wouldnt dare purchase a car over a computer lol) accompanied me on the entire trip. He could not believe the "deal" I conducted.. including the vehicle itself, the price, the financing and the absolute fantastic customer service I received from Mercedes of Kansas City.
As you can imagine.. whenever someone needs help car shopping.. my father now recommends them directly to me
I am sure there are some GM dealers who are able to provide the same service when buying new/used.
02-14-2012, 12:05 PM
#57
02-14-2012, 12:10 PM
#58
Melting Slicks
Ive had quite good experiences with dealerships because I will simply walk away if I dont like the way they do business. Im lucky that I live in an area that is highly saturated with car dealers though. If I dont like the way someone is acting, there are a dozen others waiting for my business.
02-14-2012, 01:04 PM
#59
Melting Slicks
Over the last 15 years, I haven't stepped foot onto a dealer's lot to purchase a vehicle until everything has been hashed out via email. This method has worked well for me.
Recently I went with someone who was buying their first new car, and I was blown away by the absolute barrage of scams the dealer tried to pull. It was everything but the kitchen sink... I thought most of these scams disappeared years ago?!?!? Apparently not. 
Recently I went with someone who was buying their first new car, and I was blown away by the absolute barrage of scams the dealer tried to pull. It was everything but the kitchen sink...
- rustproofing
- paint protection
- Scotchguard
- worthless 3rd party extended warranty
- marked-up dealer financing
- outrageous doc fees
- hiding existing rebates
- over-priced accessories
- pre-paid maintenance
I thought most of these scams disappeared years ago?!?!? Apparently not.
Last edited by Top_Fuel; 02-14-2012 at 02:51 PM.
02-14-2012, 07:29 PM
#60
Race Director
I don't waste much time in dealers anymore. I waste plenty of time before I walk in researching prices and options. In the past I have had my trade-in seriously devalued, provided a sticker with ADP on it, had my keys to my trade taken away, offered tons of add on crap, etc. I don't sweat it now as I don't need to buy the car for me to survive. It is not my business. I pretty much deal with one small Chevy dealer when I buy Chevys. Fair price and they say "We know you never buy add-ons but we must ask." I say, "Ok you asked and I declined". And we move on.
I would never buy from a no haggle dealership. Local Saturn dealer always had one of the lowest offers for trades and they wouldn't budge on their price including add ons that I didn't want (tint, pinstriping, clear bra that costs $400, etc). Basically for about $100 in materials they are trying to sell their add ons for $1k.
I would never buy from a no haggle dealership. Local Saturn dealer always had one of the lowest offers for trades and they wouldn't budge on their price including add ons that I didn't want (tint, pinstriping, clear bra that costs $400, etc). Basically for about $100 in materials they are trying to sell their add ons for $1k.