Pure Gas, No Ethanol!
12-10-2011, 02:45 PM
#41
Advanced
Member Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ethanol 'gives' you (rewards you?) a 15% to 40% reduction in fuel mileage depending on the vehicle.
It attacks and destroys butyl rubber parts, seals, gaskets, etc. in the fuel tank, fuel lines and carburetors on older vehicles.
It a nightmare for small engines (weed eaters, leaf blowers, lawn mowers).
Probably has killed more of them than WWII and VietNam combined. (that's just an opinion).
It attracts water like a magnet and the water settles in the bottom of the gas tank. (Guess where the fuel pickup is located).
It rust the bottom of steel gas tanks. It attacks fiberglass fuel tanks (used a lot in boats).
Some folks still drive cars old enough to not be compatible with ethanol at ALL, even E10.
Maybe that's one of the reasons our corrupt gooberment has mandated it's use... to force people to buy newer, more fuel efficient and less polluting vehicles?
You have to buy and burn more fuel (both gasoline and ethanol) when ethanol is added.
We are burning one of our food sources to provide transportation.
Corn reserves are lower than they have been in 50 years.
THe stuff doesn't even SMELL like gasoline.
Pour some out on the ground and strike a match or lighter to it. Remember when gasoline would go whoompf so fast it would make your head spin? Not anymore. THis ethanol fuel from HE!! will barely light off and burns so slow you can just about go get a cup of coffee while it's lighting off.
Where's the upside to this ethanol deal?
Oh... you can go look all this up just like I did but I know a lot of folks will willie-nilly all my statements because I didn't list footnotes providing references.
Do your own research then see if you can, with an open mind, say you don't care.
No I don't like it and HAVE experienced firsthand ALL the issues mentioned above.
I drive 27 miles one way to buy fuel without the ethanol crap. There's more pollution added to the atmosphere.
BTW: ANyone try to buy kerosene for your shop heater lately? Seems it has dissapeared like 'real gas' has.
And while I'm ranting: Why the HIGH cost of diesel fuel. I remember when it was about half the price of gasoline and now it's substantially higher. What's going on with THAT?
Another BTW: If you think you need to clean your fuel injectors ..... don't do it or MAKE SURE the cleaner you put in your gas tank doesn't contain alcohol like 95% of them do or you are just adding to your misery.
If ethanol laced fuel is so good why can't you buy it at airports for your airplane?
Answer: Banned by the Federal Aviation Administration for aviation use. Yep non-belivers go look that up too.
Now that's something one of our government beauracracies has done that I DO agree with.
Our TAX DOLLARS are subsidizing FARMERS to grow corn to make ethanol. So... you pay on your tax return AND you pay at the pump along with all the rest of the federal taxes on 'gas-o-who knows what', including excise taxes and luxory taxes nailed on since WWII.
Transport fuel adds cost to everything you see, taste, eat, touch or even smell.
I'm a little weary of getting shafted by my own government everytime I take a step or turn around and then being required to pay for the shaft and the guy sticking it..................well you know where.
Now, let's see how many will post; "If you don't like it here move to another country". If "I" move, YOU have one less person on "YOUR" side.
BugHead..... Out. Rant off.
It attacks and destroys butyl rubber parts, seals, gaskets, etc. in the fuel tank, fuel lines and carburetors on older vehicles.
It a nightmare for small engines (weed eaters, leaf blowers, lawn mowers).
Probably has killed more of them than WWII and VietNam combined. (that's just an opinion).
It attracts water like a magnet and the water settles in the bottom of the gas tank. (Guess where the fuel pickup is located).
It rust the bottom of steel gas tanks. It attacks fiberglass fuel tanks (used a lot in boats).
Some folks still drive cars old enough to not be compatible with ethanol at ALL, even E10.
Maybe that's one of the reasons our corrupt gooberment has mandated it's use... to force people to buy newer, more fuel efficient and less polluting vehicles?
You have to buy and burn more fuel (both gasoline and ethanol) when ethanol is added.
We are burning one of our food sources to provide transportation.
Corn reserves are lower than they have been in 50 years.
THe stuff doesn't even SMELL like gasoline.
Pour some out on the ground and strike a match or lighter to it. Remember when gasoline would go whoompf so fast it would make your head spin? Not anymore. THis ethanol fuel from HE!! will barely light off and burns so slow you can just about go get a cup of coffee while it's lighting off.
Where's the upside to this ethanol deal?
Oh... you can go look all this up just like I did but I know a lot of folks will willie-nilly all my statements because I didn't list footnotes providing references.
Do your own research then see if you can, with an open mind, say you don't care.
No I don't like it and HAVE experienced firsthand ALL the issues mentioned above.
I drive 27 miles one way to buy fuel without the ethanol crap. There's more pollution added to the atmosphere.
BTW: ANyone try to buy kerosene for your shop heater lately? Seems it has dissapeared like 'real gas' has.
And while I'm ranting: Why the HIGH cost of diesel fuel. I remember when it was about half the price of gasoline and now it's substantially higher. What's going on with THAT?
Another BTW: If you think you need to clean your fuel injectors ..... don't do it or MAKE SURE the cleaner you put in your gas tank doesn't contain alcohol like 95% of them do or you are just adding to your misery.
If ethanol laced fuel is so good why can't you buy it at airports for your airplane?
Answer: Banned by the Federal Aviation Administration for aviation use. Yep non-belivers go look that up too.
Now that's something one of our government beauracracies has done that I DO agree with.
Our TAX DOLLARS are subsidizing FARMERS to grow corn to make ethanol. So... you pay on your tax return AND you pay at the pump along with all the rest of the federal taxes on 'gas-o-who knows what', including excise taxes and luxory taxes nailed on since WWII.
Transport fuel adds cost to everything you see, taste, eat, touch or even smell.
I'm a little weary of getting shafted by my own government everytime I take a step or turn around and then being required to pay for the shaft and the guy sticking it..................well you know where.
Now, let's see how many will post; "If you don't like it here move to another country". If "I" move, YOU have one less person on "YOUR" side.
BugHead..... Out. Rant off.
Last edited by BeetleBailey; 12-10-2011 at 03:18 PM.
12-10-2011, 03:02 PM
#42
Team Owner
12-10-2011, 03:33 PM
#43
Advanced
Member Since: Mar 2010
Posts: 57
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by jthurik
this is why we need E85 at every gas station forget 93
this is why we need E85 at every gas station forget 93
You paying? If so I'll gladly purchase an E85 compatible huge SUV.
What we NEED is the choice to buy the fuel we WANT to buy, not some messed up fuel mandated by folks that don't know a piston from a popsickle.
THe MARKET should drive product availability (and price) or have I somehow forgotten this is the good'ol US of A?
THe place where "freedom' used to mean something real and worthwhile.
12-10-2011, 03:49 PM
#45
Drifting
On the diesel price question, the price has risen for two reasons. First, environmental regulations recently required that sulfur level in diesel be reduced to 10ppm, and that required an investment of about $150 million per refinery, which translates to 5-10cpg. Second is supply/demand. Some refineries did not spend the $150 million, which reduces supply of diesel since those refineries can’t make it any more. At the same time, the ratio of diesel to gasoline cars and trucks is increasing, which also strains supply of diesel by increasing demand. In the old days, if a refinery set itself up to meet gasoline demand, it tended to make more diesel than it really needed, thus meaning diesel was in over-supply, which drove down its price. Now it’s the reverse. When a refinery is set up to meet its gasoline demand, it doesn’t make enough diesel, meaning diesel is in short supply, making its price rise. That’s a simplification, as a refinery does have some capability to vary ratio of gasoline to diesel. But the point is, the trends described above have shifted refineries from making close to minimum to making close to maximum diesel, and that has had an impact on the relative price of gasoline versus diesel.
12-10-2011, 03:52 PM
#46
Drifting
This is what I've also experienced.
12-10-2011, 10:12 PM
#48
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jul 2011
Location: Saint Johns Florida
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
Thanks
The 1 gallon per gallon for corn based ethanol is on the extreme anti-ethanol end of the spectrum of informed opinions, while the 9 to 1 ratio for sugar cane is that claimed by the Brazilian government who dictate and subsidize their production. Middle of the road perspective on corn based would probably be around 0.75 gallons per gallon. Sugar cane perspective is difficult because of various pollution related issues, extremely cheap Brazilian labor for labor intensive sugar cane, and their ideal growing conditions. But suffice it to say that if it were really that good, more than just Brazil would be using it. The real hope for ethanol would appear to me to be the various second generation, cellulosic sources. But those are not yet fully developed or proven.
Energy content of ethanol per gallon is about 2/3 that of gasoline, so if you got 30mpg on pure gasoline, you’d get 20mpg on pure ethanol. That in turn means at 10% ethanol, 90% gasoline, you’d only lose about 1mpg relative to pure gasoline. Thus, when people report large mileage loss with 10% ethanol, something else besides just the ethanol is in play. The three biggest possibilities are errors in measuring mileage, different driving conditions, and batch to batch variations in the base gasoline, which can be as much as 1-2mpg. Keep in mind, I’m anti-corn-based-ethanol, so I’m not trying to defend the ethanol. I just want to keep the fight fair. Mileage reduction with 10% ethanol is real, but it is not huge.
The 1 gallon per gallon for corn based ethanol is on the extreme anti-ethanol end of the spectrum of informed opinions, while the 9 to 1 ratio for sugar cane is that claimed by the Brazilian government who dictate and subsidize their production. Middle of the road perspective on corn based would probably be around 0.75 gallons per gallon. Sugar cane perspective is difficult because of various pollution related issues, extremely cheap Brazilian labor for labor intensive sugar cane, and their ideal growing conditions. But suffice it to say that if it were really that good, more than just Brazil would be using it. The real hope for ethanol would appear to me to be the various second generation, cellulosic sources. But those are not yet fully developed or proven.
Energy content of ethanol per gallon is about 2/3 that of gasoline, so if you got 30mpg on pure gasoline, you’d get 20mpg on pure ethanol. That in turn means at 10% ethanol, 90% gasoline, you’d only lose about 1mpg relative to pure gasoline. Thus, when people report large mileage loss with 10% ethanol, something else besides just the ethanol is in play. The three biggest possibilities are errors in measuring mileage, different driving conditions, and batch to batch variations in the base gasoline, which can be as much as 1-2mpg. Keep in mind, I’m anti-corn-based-ethanol, so I’m not trying to defend the ethanol. I just want to keep the fight fair. Mileage reduction with 10% ethanol is real, but it is not huge.
I personally had several vehicles back when local state requirements forced all stations to sell 10% ethanol, every one lost 10% or more in gas mileage. My wife's Honda Element went from 26mpg to 22mpg. My motorcycle when overnight from getting 42mpg commuting to getting 36mpg. Even with variations in base gas, that is at least 10% reduction in efficiency.
12-11-2011, 07:18 AM
#49
Le Mans Master
I personally had several vehicles back when local state requirements forced all stations to sell 10% ethanol, every one lost 10% or more in gas mileage. My wife's Honda Element went from 26mpg to 22mpg. My motorcycle when overnight from getting 42mpg commuting to getting 36mpg. Even with variations in base gas, that is at least 10% reduction in efficiency.
12-11-2011, 07:52 AM
#50
Le Mans Master
And what would you do with the E85? You do know that you can't use it in a Corvette any more than you can use diesel, don't you? E85 is 85% ethanol. The engine has to be significantly modified to get it to burn. Depending on the gasoline quality, the octane rating of E85 might be significantly LOWER than 93 but it is hard to determine since there is no requirement that the octane rating of E85 be posted and even when it is, the numbers are often incorrect (do a search). But in any case, octane and power are not directly related. Octane is a measure of how a fuel self ignites under pressure. The higher the number the slower it wants to burn. That CAN mean more power in a high compression engine with a long stroke but it can also mean less power in an engine design that doesn't give it enough time to burn. The C6 engine was designed for 91 octane not 93 and certainly not E85. RTFM!!! It says specifically to never use anything with more than 10% ethanol.
12-11-2011, 08:54 AM
#51
Drifting
I personally had several vehicles back when local state requirements forced all stations to sell 10% ethanol, every one lost 10% or more in gas mileage. My wife's Honda Element went from 26mpg to 22mpg. My motorcycle when overnight from getting 42mpg commuting to getting 36mpg. Even with variations in base gas, that is at least 10% reduction in efficiency.
That was my experience also. I have driven over 800 miles one way several times a year for many years. It has been very difficult to find real gas in the midwest for years. As soon as I would get out of the midwest and find a station with real gas my mileage would increase and when I had to buy gasohol the mileage would decrease. Yes, LDB has a valid point that mileage varies for a lot of reasons and E10 should only decrease mileage 3% due to lower energy content but in my experience it averaged closer to 10% than 3%.
Beyond the items above, I’d really be stretching to imagine where a 10%+ mileage loss would come from. The only other thing besides driving conditions and mileage measurement errors I could think of might be considered mud slinging. If the ethanol gas came from a major refinery and the ethanol free gas came from a dinky refinery, the ethanol free might be a bit higher boiling, thus denser, thus have more energy. But the higher boiling part would also have negative cleanliness aspects. Reason for that shift is that the big refineries usually try to maximize jet fuel, which is the next heaviest product after gasoline. Dinky refineries often don’t mess with the jet market, so some of those higher boiling components that are on the borderline between gasoline and jet might get left in the gasoline.
12-11-2011, 10:26 AM
#52
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Jul 2011
Location: Saint Johns Florida
Posts: 1,168
Likes: 0
Received 2 Likes
on
2 Posts
I concede that a fair number of people claim 10% or more mileage loss. I can only think of two other issues that might increase the roughly 3-4% that comes from lower ethanol energy content. But one of them isn’t big enough to get you to 10% mileage loss, and the other requires the time coincidence of the measurements being made in the fall. The small one that might get you from 3-4% up to 4-6% relates to refining severity on the base gas. Remember from an earlier post in this thread that I said we got back a bit of the high cost of ethanol by using ethanol’s high octane to reduce refining severity on base gas. That reduction results in the base gas having fewer aromatics and more paraffins, and paraffins are not as dense (fewer pounds per gallon so less energy per gallon). The issue for fall is the shift from summer to winter vapor pressure spec. Winter gas has higher vapor pressure to help cold starts and make cold engine operation smoother. That’s done by adding butane, which is another material that has low density and thus low energy content. So if you were comparing summer spec ethanol free gas to winter spec 10% ethanol gas, you could easily see mileage loss as large as some claim, but it would be due to the combination of ethanol and the winter butane, not just the ethanol. Exact timing of the shift to winter gas, and exact quantity of butane added varies depending on region of the country, but if your comparisons were done in the fall (or spring during the return to summer spec if the high mileage ethanol free came just after instead of just before the low mileage ethanol), then you might have been seeing the butane effect.
Beyond the items above, I’d really be stretching to imagine where a 10%+ mileage loss would come from. The only other thing besides driving conditions and mileage measurement errors I could think of might be considered mud slinging. If the ethanol gas came from a major refinery and the ethanol free gas came from a dinky refinery, the ethanol free might be a bit higher boiling, thus denser, thus have more energy. But the higher boiling part would also have negative cleanliness aspects. Reason for that shift is that the big refineries usually try to maximize jet fuel, which is the next heaviest product after gasoline. Dinky refineries often don’t mess with the jet market, so some of those higher boiling components that are on the borderline between gasoline and jet might get left in the gasoline.
Beyond the items above, I’d really be stretching to imagine where a 10%+ mileage loss would come from. The only other thing besides driving conditions and mileage measurement errors I could think of might be considered mud slinging. If the ethanol gas came from a major refinery and the ethanol free gas came from a dinky refinery, the ethanol free might be a bit higher boiling, thus denser, thus have more energy. But the higher boiling part would also have negative cleanliness aspects. Reason for that shift is that the big refineries usually try to maximize jet fuel, which is the next heaviest product after gasoline. Dinky refineries often don’t mess with the jet market, so some of those higher boiling components that are on the borderline between gasoline and jet might get left in the gasoline.
You can believe what ever you want,,, I will go with empirical evidence. I personally tested it several times on my personal vehicles. I keep track of gas mileage all the time on all my vehicles and always have. And like I said with my motorcycle it was an over night thing.
It is a normal thing for anyone that has ridden for any length of time. Up until recently motorcycles didn't have gas gauges, you had to keep track of your tanks range to know when to get gas. A good rider knows not only the average distance the tank is good for, but how different riding styles and RPMs effect gas usage.
I had consistent MPGs for several tanks both before and after 10% ethanol was added. And it was the middle of summer 2009, here in Florida. Right after the law passed. It didn't go into effect until Jan 2010, but all the local stations here switched several months ahead.
12-12-2011, 09:01 AM
#53
Le Mans Master
And I'll concede that there are people who claim to have seen Bigfoot abducted by Aliens in a UFO. Maybe we're all crazy. 
I agree that measuring mileage that accurately is difficult because of all the other variables so a theoretical calculation should be better. Therefor we agree that gasohol should be at least 3% worse mileage and certainly not "no difference". Combine the energy difference with our comments on base gas quality (your's from an industry knowledge and mine from business economics and who says they sell real gas) and the number should be somewhere above 3%. I would think we could safely say 5% worse. So now my statement of "closer to 10% than 3%" only requires another 1.5% (6.5% is the center). When you throw in the inability to calculate mileage that accurately, I'll concede your point. But that doesn't mean I'll change my position that gasohol is crap. I have reset average mileage every tank full since 1985. I know what I've seen on the interstate. High altitude is good. Rain is very bad. Wind is good or bad depending on direction. Elevation changes are good or bad depending on direction but usually less than you might expect. Traffic is bad. Sixth gear is very good. Constant speed on cruise is very good. Gasohol is bad. 
I agree that measuring mileage that accurately is difficult because of all the other variables so a theoretical calculation should be better. Therefor we agree that gasohol should be at least 3% worse mileage and certainly not "no difference". Combine the energy difference with our comments on base gas quality (your's from an industry knowledge and mine from business economics and who says they sell real gas) and the number should be somewhere above 3%. I would think we could safely say 5% worse. So now my statement of "closer to 10% than 3%" only requires another 1.5% (6.5% is the center). When you throw in the inability to calculate mileage that accurately, I'll concede your point. But that doesn't mean I'll change my position that gasohol is crap. I have reset average mileage every tank full since 1985. I know what I've seen on the interstate. High altitude is good. Rain is very bad. Wind is good or bad depending on direction. Elevation changes are good or bad depending on direction but usually less than you might expect. Traffic is bad. Sixth gear is very good. Constant speed on cruise is very good. Gasohol is bad.
12-12-2011, 01:09 PM
#54
Safety Car
I fully stand behind claiming a 10% or more loss of mpg's on 10% ethanol gas.. From 1995 through 2010, I have owned several similar GM cars all with the 3.8 liter V6 engine. I keep written track of every tank of gas, and calculate by math the mph's. Every one of those cars, (Bonneville, Impala, Monte Carlo & LaCrosse) all got between 30 and 35 mph on trips, the Impala was best.... Once I started using e90, the mileage dropped to the 26-28 mpg range, I documented this over and over.
Several years ago I bought an ethanol tester, and began testing the ethanol content in gas when I couldn't get pure gas... I have gotten reading from 5% to 12% ethanol.
Another point... My son is a service manager at a GM dealer... over the last couple of years he has seen several times, groups of cars coming in running very badly or on flat beds. They found ethanol content of 30-50% in those cars. This happen to a neighbor this year, filled up at a station in Nashville and got about 10 miles from the station when the car would barely run. Dealer found a high content of ethanol in the tank..You just know what your buying. I just glad that I have several stations near me that sell pure gas...
Most don't know that ethanol isn't added to the gas until its put into the 18 wheeler before its headed to the stations. Its blended as it splashes around in the tanker going down the road....
Keep this in mind when discussing ethanol... Its garbage....If it wasn't for the USA taxpayer subsidies, there wouldn't be corn in our gas...
BTW... I have several relatives making a great living growing ethanol in Iowa....
Several years ago I bought an ethanol tester, and began testing the ethanol content in gas when I couldn't get pure gas... I have gotten reading from 5% to 12% ethanol.
Another point... My son is a service manager at a GM dealer... over the last couple of years he has seen several times, groups of cars coming in running very badly or on flat beds. They found ethanol content of 30-50% in those cars. This happen to a neighbor this year, filled up at a station in Nashville and got about 10 miles from the station when the car would barely run. Dealer found a high content of ethanol in the tank..You just know what your buying. I just glad that I have several stations near me that sell pure gas...
Most don't know that ethanol isn't added to the gas until its put into the 18 wheeler before its headed to the stations. Its blended as it splashes around in the tanker going down the road....
Keep this in mind when discussing ethanol... Its garbage....If it wasn't for the USA taxpayer subsidies, there wouldn't be corn in our gas...
BTW... I have several relatives making a great living growing ethanol in Iowa....
12-12-2011, 09:25 PM
#55
Up until recently the US government was paying the refineries $.45 a gallon to blend menthol with the gas. I do believe that subsidy just expired. Later! Frank
12-13-2011, 07:11 AM
#56
Race Director
Maybe you could try one of these:
in New York
City Brand Octane Name Street Address GPS*
Avon UNBRANDED 91 Cook's Gas-Way 338 Wadsworh Avenue N42.90602 W77.75734
Basom UNBRANDED 87 93 Arrowhawk Smoke Shop 852 Bloomingdale Rd N43.06741 W78.41092
Basom UNBRANDED 87 93 Totem Pole Smoke And Gas 1025 Ledge Rd N43.04521 W78.41564
Buffalo UNBRANDED 89 Rich Marine Sales 5 Austin Street N42.93376 W78.90296
Canandaigua UNBRANDED 89 Seager Marine 811 S. Main St. N42.87620 W77.27328
Canandaigua UNBRANDED 87 Seager Marine Service Center 21 Parrish Street N42.88000 W77.27673
Castile UNBRANDED 91 Mack's Marina Silver Lake not available
Clymer KEYSTONE 89 Lictus Keystone 8799 W Main St N42.02080 W79.63271
Conesus UNBRANDED 89 Smith Boys Jansen Marine Of Conesus 5750 East Lake Road N42.73906 W77.70865
Conesus UNBRANDED 91 West Lake Station 5390 West Lake Rd N42.75459 W77.71277
Croghan UNBRANDED 91 Monnat & Nortz Mobil 10160 State Rte. 812 N43.94093 W75.38416
Eagle Bay UNBRANDED 87 91 Big Moose Yamaha 5511 County Road 28 N43.76891 W74.81783
Forestport UNBRANDED 87 Halpin's Fuel Service Inc. 10258 State Rt. 28 N43.43126 W75.21329
Grand Island UNBRANDED 91 Noco Express 1898 Whitehaven Blvd N43.02130 W78.96167
Grand Island UNBRANDED 91 Noco Express 1898 Whitehaven Rd N43.02172 W78.96275
Hammond UNBRANDED 91 Blind Bay Marina Corp 115 Blind Bay Rd N44.47773 W75.77619
Henrietta VALERO 91 Valero Gas Station 335 East Henrietta Rd N43.11533 W77.61639
Honeoye UNBRANDED 90 Trident Marine 5226 East Lake Rd N42.78929 W77.50029
Kings Ferry UNBRANDED 89 Wilcox General Store 1595 State Route 34b N42.69545 W76.62195
Lackawanna UNBRANDED 91 Noco Express 2530 Hamburg Turnpike, N42.81638 W78.84630
Lackawanna UNBRANDED 91 Noco Express 2530 Hamburg Tpke N42.81638 W78.84630
Malone UNBRANDED 91 Arnold Oil 253 Elm St N44.85546 W74.28133
Marietta UNBRANDED 89 Otisco Lake Marina 1697 Otisco Valley Rd. N42.85291 W76.26014
Massena UNBRANDED 91 Seaway Mini Mart 527 County Route 42 N44.95814 W74.83799
Mayville UNBRANDED 89 Chautauqua Lake Marina, Inc. 104 West Lake Road N42.23828 W79.49414
Montour Falls UNBRANDED 87 89 Lakes Rt. 14 South not available
Montour Falls UNBRANDED 89 Lakes Gas 2020 New York 14 N42.33098 W76.83897
Mount Morris UNBRANDED 91 Cook's Convenience Center 198 Main Street N42.71774 W77.86946
Naples UNBRANDED 89 Smith Boys Jansen Marine Of Canandaigua 7099 Rt 21 N42.67076 W77.36410
Nicholville UNBRANDED 91 Twin Pines Cor. Of St Rt 11b & St Rt 458 N44.69387 W74.66300
North Tonawanda UNBRANDED 89 Wardell Boat Yard 1 Sweeney St. N43.02259 W78.88031
Panama UNBRANDED 89 Crouch's Garage 2 East Main N42.07494 W79.48299
Penn Yan UNBRANDED 89 Lake Gas 214 Lake Street N42.65542 W77.05670
Penn Yan UNBRANDED 87 89 Lakes Route 54 South not available
Penn Yan UNBRANDED 89 Lakes Gas Rt 54 not available
Penn Yan UNBRANDED 89 Morgan Marine #2 Route 54 - East Lake Road N42.38924 W77.03721
Pittsford UNBRANDED 87 91 Pittsford Auto Svce. Center 58 Monroe Avenue N43.09259 W77.52013
Raquette Lake MOBIL 89 Raquette Lake General Store 1 Main St N43.66761 W74.45691
Rochester UNBRANDED 91 Cook's Convenience Center 335 East Henrietta Rd N43.11588 W77.61662
Rushford UNBRANDED 90 Rushford Marina Route 246 N42.43657 W78.31643
Salisbury UNBRANDED 89 The Country Store 2114 Sr. 29 N43.13490 W74.81800
Utica UNBRANDED 89 Atlas Service Station 915 Mohawk Street N43.09486 W75.21978
Waterloo UNBRANDED 89 Barrett Marine 485 West River Rd N42.87543 W76.93398
*GPS coordinates may be located from the supplied address, and may not be accurate. View the station details.
© 2011 Sam Hokin
in New York
City Brand Octane Name Street Address GPS*
Avon UNBRANDED 91 Cook's Gas-Way 338 Wadsworh Avenue N42.90602 W77.75734
Basom UNBRANDED 87 93 Arrowhawk Smoke Shop 852 Bloomingdale Rd N43.06741 W78.41092
Basom UNBRANDED 87 93 Totem Pole Smoke And Gas 1025 Ledge Rd N43.04521 W78.41564
Buffalo UNBRANDED 89 Rich Marine Sales 5 Austin Street N42.93376 W78.90296
Canandaigua UNBRANDED 89 Seager Marine 811 S. Main St. N42.87620 W77.27328
Canandaigua UNBRANDED 87 Seager Marine Service Center 21 Parrish Street N42.88000 W77.27673
Castile UNBRANDED 91 Mack's Marina Silver Lake not available
Clymer KEYSTONE 89 Lictus Keystone 8799 W Main St N42.02080 W79.63271
Conesus UNBRANDED 89 Smith Boys Jansen Marine Of Conesus 5750 East Lake Road N42.73906 W77.70865
Conesus UNBRANDED 91 West Lake Station 5390 West Lake Rd N42.75459 W77.71277
Croghan UNBRANDED 91 Monnat & Nortz Mobil 10160 State Rte. 812 N43.94093 W75.38416
Eagle Bay UNBRANDED 87 91 Big Moose Yamaha 5511 County Road 28 N43.76891 W74.81783
Forestport UNBRANDED 87 Halpin's Fuel Service Inc. 10258 State Rt. 28 N43.43126 W75.21329
Grand Island UNBRANDED 91 Noco Express 1898 Whitehaven Blvd N43.02130 W78.96167
Grand Island UNBRANDED 91 Noco Express 1898 Whitehaven Rd N43.02172 W78.96275
Hammond UNBRANDED 91 Blind Bay Marina Corp 115 Blind Bay Rd N44.47773 W75.77619
Henrietta VALERO 91 Valero Gas Station 335 East Henrietta Rd N43.11533 W77.61639
Honeoye UNBRANDED 90 Trident Marine 5226 East Lake Rd N42.78929 W77.50029
Kings Ferry UNBRANDED 89 Wilcox General Store 1595 State Route 34b N42.69545 W76.62195
Lackawanna UNBRANDED 91 Noco Express 2530 Hamburg Turnpike, N42.81638 W78.84630
Lackawanna UNBRANDED 91 Noco Express 2530 Hamburg Tpke N42.81638 W78.84630
Malone UNBRANDED 91 Arnold Oil 253 Elm St N44.85546 W74.28133
Marietta UNBRANDED 89 Otisco Lake Marina 1697 Otisco Valley Rd. N42.85291 W76.26014
Massena UNBRANDED 91 Seaway Mini Mart 527 County Route 42 N44.95814 W74.83799
Mayville UNBRANDED 89 Chautauqua Lake Marina, Inc. 104 West Lake Road N42.23828 W79.49414
Montour Falls UNBRANDED 87 89 Lakes Rt. 14 South not available
Montour Falls UNBRANDED 89 Lakes Gas 2020 New York 14 N42.33098 W76.83897
Mount Morris UNBRANDED 91 Cook's Convenience Center 198 Main Street N42.71774 W77.86946
Naples UNBRANDED 89 Smith Boys Jansen Marine Of Canandaigua 7099 Rt 21 N42.67076 W77.36410
Nicholville UNBRANDED 91 Twin Pines Cor. Of St Rt 11b & St Rt 458 N44.69387 W74.66300
North Tonawanda UNBRANDED 89 Wardell Boat Yard 1 Sweeney St. N43.02259 W78.88031
Panama UNBRANDED 89 Crouch's Garage 2 East Main N42.07494 W79.48299
Penn Yan UNBRANDED 89 Lake Gas 214 Lake Street N42.65542 W77.05670
Penn Yan UNBRANDED 87 89 Lakes Route 54 South not available
Penn Yan UNBRANDED 89 Lakes Gas Rt 54 not available
Penn Yan UNBRANDED 89 Morgan Marine #2 Route 54 - East Lake Road N42.38924 W77.03721
Pittsford UNBRANDED 87 91 Pittsford Auto Svce. Center 58 Monroe Avenue N43.09259 W77.52013
Raquette Lake MOBIL 89 Raquette Lake General Store 1 Main St N43.66761 W74.45691
Rochester UNBRANDED 91 Cook's Convenience Center 335 East Henrietta Rd N43.11588 W77.61662
Rushford UNBRANDED 90 Rushford Marina Route 246 N42.43657 W78.31643
Salisbury UNBRANDED 89 The Country Store 2114 Sr. 29 N43.13490 W74.81800
Utica UNBRANDED 89 Atlas Service Station 915 Mohawk Street N43.09486 W75.21978
Waterloo UNBRANDED 89 Barrett Marine 485 West River Rd N42.87543 W76.93398
*GPS coordinates may be located from the supplied address, and may not be accurate. View the station details.
© 2011 Sam Hokin
12-13-2011, 08:17 AM
#57
Race Director
Member Since: Mar 2007
Location: Missouri City Texas
Posts: 11,331
Likes: 0
Received 14 Likes
on
14 Posts
Wow 10% fuel loss on E10?
My C6 gets 31-34mpg on the freeway at 65mph (depends on how cool and dry it is outside). Imagine if I ran "pure gas".
My XLR-V gets 27-29mpg on E10 as well, and it's a heavy 3850lb piglet. I plan on dynotuning it and anticipate it'll run over 30mpg on the freeway...still on E10.
There is no way a 10% fuel loss is coming from 10% ethanol. With 85% ethanol people are seeing about 35% fuel loss.
My C6 gets 31-34mpg on the freeway at 65mph (depends on how cool and dry it is outside). Imagine if I ran "pure gas".
My XLR-V gets 27-29mpg on E10 as well, and it's a heavy 3850lb piglet. I plan on dynotuning it and anticipate it'll run over 30mpg on the freeway...still on E10.
There is no way a 10% fuel loss is coming from 10% ethanol. With 85% ethanol people are seeing about 35% fuel loss.
12-13-2011, 10:22 AM
#58
Le Mans Master
Nice opinion piece in today's WSJ loaded with facts - http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...158115782.html
