K&N air filters worth the extra cost?
10-13-2010, 05:03 PM
#81
Drifting
As about 100 other people have already told you, most are not saying a K&N Filter will pick up Big HP, and most have admitted (at least i have) that yea, the K&N does not filter quite as much as a stock unit...but not to a degree that it will damage the motor. Most have also said it is not worth the money (on a stock car), so we agree on that.
But this conspiracy theory about K&N being a bogus company, and that K&N Filters are bad, or cause long term damage to engines is just that, consipracy with no fact or proof to back it up. You said it yourself , "it would be very hard to prove" ...well yea, cuz there is nothing to prove.
Lastly, stop your "doctors used to recommend ciggarettes" arguement . It does not apply. Ciggarettes have been proven and linked to cancer like I said before... K&N Filters have not been linked to any damaged engines or blown motors, and they have been around for a long time.
But this conspiracy theory about K&N being a bogus company, and that K&N Filters are bad, or cause long term damage to engines is just that, consipracy with no fact or proof to back it up. You said it yourself , "it would be very hard to prove" ...well yea, cuz there is nothing to prove.
Lastly, stop your "doctors used to recommend ciggarettes" arguement . It does not apply. Ciggarettes have been proven and linked to cancer like I said before... K&N Filters have not been linked to any damaged engines or blown motors, and they have been around for a long time.
I hear there are Aliens buried in Bowling Green.....Honest
10-13-2010, 05:08 PM
#82
Race Director
10-13-2010, 09:50 PM
#83
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St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
Other companies do. Ever hear of AIRAID? There are others also.
I need to ask, how many use an "aftermarket" oil filter rather than the GM Branded Oil filter? Filtering your cars blood is easily at least as important as the air coming in, but I'll bet that many don't think twice about buying a FRAM. Think about it.
I need to ask, how many use an "aftermarket" oil filter rather than the GM Branded Oil filter? Filtering your cars blood is easily at least as important as the air coming in, but I'll bet that many don't think twice about buying a FRAM. Think about it.
FRAM is a bad example for an oil filter cuz everyone knows they're ****, and I suspect that's why you tried to use it in your arguement.
Wix, Purolator, Mobil One, Napa, etc disposable paper air filters are of the same basic design as an AC Delco disposable paper air filter and the quality is as good, or better.
A KN oil impregnated air filter is not of the same basic design as an AC Delco disposable paper air filter.
10-14-2010, 09:39 AM
#84
Racer
Wix, Purolator, Mobil One, Napa, etc oil filters are of the same basic design as an AC Delco oil filter and the quality is as good, or better.
FRAM is a bad example for an oil filter cuz everyone knows they're ****, and I suspect that's why you tried to use it in your arguement.
Wix, Purolator, Mobil One, Napa, etc disposable paper air filters are of the same basic design as an AC Delco disposable paper air filter and the quality is as good, or better.
A KN oil impregnated air filter is not of the same basic design as an AC Delco disposable paper air filter.
FRAM is a bad example for an oil filter cuz everyone knows they're ****, and I suspect that's why you tried to use it in your arguement.
Wix, Purolator, Mobil One, Napa, etc disposable paper air filters are of the same basic design as an AC Delco disposable paper air filter and the quality is as good, or better.
A KN oil impregnated air filter is not of the same basic design as an AC Delco disposable paper air filter.
Not to stick up for FRAM because I am not a customer, but......prove that they're bad. They must do something right, go to any auto parts store and there is a sea of orange. If they were truly crap, they would not be in business. You can certainly buy a fram paper air filter, just like stock, but it must be bad because it's a FRAM? But that goes against your argument, it's "the same basic design".
Truly, the only way to be assured that you have the "same as stock" would be to BUY STOCK PARTS.
This thread asked a question. I stated my findings based on first hand experience standing there personally at the DYNO. I encourage anyone else to do the same and dispute my findings. I can only tell you the experience that I had.
10-14-2010, 09:46 PM
#85
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St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
If it's the "same basic design" why would people use ANYTHING but the stock filter? If it's not the exact same thing, it must be bad. Go to any brands website and they will try to convince you that their product is better, OF COURSE. If it's the same, how can it be better?
Not to stick up for FRAM because I am not a customer, but......prove that they're bad. They must do something right, go to any auto parts store and there is a sea of orange. If they were truly crap, they would not be in business. You can certainly buy a fram paper air filter, just like stock, but it must be bad because it's a FRAM? But that goes against your argument, it's "the same basic design".
Truly, the only way to be assured that you have the "same as stock" would be to BUY STOCK PARTS.
This thread asked a question. I stated my findings based on first hand experience standing there personally at the DYNO. I encourage anyone else to do the same and dispute my findings. I can only tell you the experience that I had.
Not to stick up for FRAM because I am not a customer, but......prove that they're bad. They must do something right, go to any auto parts store and there is a sea of orange. If they were truly crap, they would not be in business. You can certainly buy a fram paper air filter, just like stock, but it must be bad because it's a FRAM? But that goes against your argument, it's "the same basic design".
Truly, the only way to be assured that you have the "same as stock" would be to BUY STOCK PARTS.
This thread asked a question. I stated my findings based on first hand experience standing there personally at the DYNO. I encourage anyone else to do the same and dispute my findings. I can only tell you the experience that I had.
Comparing oil filters of a brand other than AC Delco, but of the same design, to re-usable oil impregnated air filters is
I've been here for 10 years and one thing remains constant:
nothing pisses off Corvette owners more than pointing out that they got suckered on a "mod"
10-14-2010, 09:51 PM
#86
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10-15-2010, 09:46 AM
#90
Race Director
You don't have to believe anyone else. Just hold the K&N up to the sunlight and do the same to the paper and see for yourself WHY it flows better lol...
K&N is to filters as engine rebuild in a can is to engine additives. imo
K&N is to filters as engine rebuild in a can is to engine additives. imo
10-15-2010, 10:16 AM
#91
Racer
Comparing oil filters of a brand other than AC Delco, but of the same design, to re-usable oil impregnated air filters is
I've been here for 10 years and one thing remains constant:
nothing pisses off Corvette owners more than pointing out that they got suckered on a "mod"
As a board member I feel it's my duty to add input on things that I actually have experienced myself, and keep my mouth shut and listen when I don't. I have stated my real life DYNO verified experience with this product. If you have the same experience that has other results, please go ahead and call b.s. on me. If all you have is what you've read on the Internet, or felt "seat of the pants", then I call b.s. on you.
I don't care if anyone buys K&N or not, I can't even say if it's worth it. As I've stated before, I answered a question based on real life verified first hand data on the application that I witnessed.
10-15-2010, 10:55 AM
#92
Team Owner
Anyone know what kind of filters the NASCAR group uses? They spend millions trying to get the last fractional horsepower out of their engines, so I would think that if they could get 3-4 free horses from an air filter element, they would jump all over it.
10-15-2010, 11:20 AM
#93
Race Director
Wow! That filter study histogram is very revealing! I guess the small % gain in HP that really would not even be noticeable in the "seat of the pants" would not be worth the volume of extra dirt passed to the engine. Thanks for the post; I'll stay with the stock filters. 
I guess the small % gain in HP that really would not even be noticeable in the "seat of the pants" would not be worth the volume of extra dirt passed to the engine. Thanks for the post; I'll stay with the stock filters.
10-15-2010, 12:48 PM
#94
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Matt Kenseth is 2 for 2 in NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Auto Club 500 at Daytona and Fontana
Matt Kenseth celebrates his victory of the NASCAR Auto Club 500 at Auto Club Speedway
Matt Kenseth celebrates his victory of the NASCAR Auto Club 500 at Auto Club Speedway
Matt Kenseth followed his NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Daytona 500 victory with a win at the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Auto Club 500 in Fontana, California. His 2 for 2 wins marked the first time a driver has won the first two Cup races of the season since 1997.
In the Auto Club 500, Kenseth beat runner-up Jeff Gordon by 1½ seconds. By the way, Gordon was the driver who won the first two Cup Races of the season in 1997. In Fontana, Kenseth led 84 of 250 laps. He passed Gordon at lap 212 and stayed in first place until the end. Gordon tried to pass, but could not. Kyle Busch came in third. Roush Fenway driver Greg Biffle, a four-time winner at Fontana came in fourth-place.
Matt Kenseth wins the Daytona 500 in Daytona Beach, Florida for the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Auto Club 500
Matt Kenseth wins the Daytona 500 in Daytona Beach, Florida for the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Auto Club 500
The win was team owner Jack Roush's fifth consecutive victory in this race. "Roush Fenway started off the season with strong wins at Daytona and Fontana," said Charles Meier of K&N Engineering. "K&N filters have been supporting Roush Fenway with our air and oil filters for three seasons. We are very happy to have this relationship because they produce result regularly with their reliable engines and talented drivers. It's a fitting combination with the World's Best Air Filters."
In Daytona, Kenseth took over the lead two laps before NASCAR stopped the season-opening event. Kenseth was recovering from a winless season and initially had bad luck at Daytona International Speedway. In the Daytona 500, he wrecked his primary car and started Sunday's race in last place in a back-up vehicle.
Kenseth managed to turn it up a notch on the track as the rain closed in on the season-opener. He passed Elliot Sadler with 54 laps remaining. Moments later the rain came and a caution came out for an accident. NASCAR stopped the race two laps later and Kenseth was declared the winner.
Two facts remain, it rained in the first two races of the NASCAR Cup Series and Matt Kenseth won both. History will remember who won.
Find K&N products for your vehicle using the K&N application search then use the K&N dealer search to find a K&N dealer in your part of the world.
fr:http://www.knfilters.com/news/news.aspx?id=1825
10-15-2010, 01:00 PM
#95
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St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
Well I'm sorry that I'm not as OLD as you on this board, but in REAL life my experience from a Honda CL70 Motorcycle to a 430 Detroit powered Kenworth T2000 I feel qualified to discuss my actual findings, not "what I've read" or "what I think".
As a board member I feel it's my duty to add input on things that I actually have experienced myself, and keep my mouth shut and listen when I don't. I have stated my real life DYNO verified experience with this product. If you have the same experience that has other results, please go ahead and call b.s. on me. If all you have is what you've read on the Internet, or felt "seat of the pants", then I call b.s. on you.
I don't care if anyone buys K&N or not, I can't even say if it's worth it. As I've stated before, I answered a question based on real life verified first hand data on the application that I witnessed.
As a board member I feel it's my duty to add input on things that I actually have experienced myself, and keep my mouth shut and listen when I don't. I have stated my real life DYNO verified experience with this product. If you have the same experience that has other results, please go ahead and call b.s. on me. If all you have is what you've read on the Internet, or felt "seat of the pants", then I call b.s. on you.
I don't care if anyone buys K&N or not, I can't even say if it's worth it. As I've stated before, I answered a question based on real life verified first hand data on the application that I witnessed.
. I said your logic was
In fact, tell me where I said anything bad about KN filters. What's the point of a debate if you're going to make **** up ?
The
: call was where I (successfully) challenged your logic that using an "aftermarket oil filter" is the same thing as using a KN air filter which is not the same design as the OEM air filter. Purolator, Wix, etc oil filters ARE of the same design as the OEM air filter. Which of course, would be even more relevant if I said anything bad about KN filters. But I did not. Show me where I did. In fact, I had a Haltech CAI on my C5 and it made a definite improvement over the OEM. But I also knew that it was of a different design than the OEM air filter. Installing it was NOT the same thing as using a WIX oil filter (I refuse to use Fram)
10-15-2010, 01:17 PM
#96
Racer
While you're busy keeping your mouth shut, you might want to learn how to read. Go back and tell me where I said KN filters were .
I said your logic was In fact, tell me where I said anything bad about KN filters.
What's the point of a debate if you're going to make **** up ?
The: call was where I (successfully) challenged your logic that using an "aftermarket oil filter" is the same thing as using a KN air filter which is not the same design as the OEM air filter. Purolator, Wix, etc oil filters ARE of the same design as the OEM air filter.
Which of course, would be even more relevant if I said anything bad about KN filters. But I did not. Show me where I did. In fact, I had a Haltech CAI on my C5 and it made a definite improvement over the OEM. But I also knew that it was of a different design than the OEM air filter. Installing it was NOT the same thing as using a WIX oil filter (I refuse to use Fram)
. I said your logic was
In fact, tell me where I said anything bad about KN filters. What's the point of a debate if you're going to make **** up ?
The
: call was where I (successfully) challenged your logic that using an "aftermarket oil filter" is the same thing as using a KN air filter which is not the same design as the OEM air filter. Purolator, Wix, etc oil filters ARE of the same design as the OEM air filter. Which of course, would be even more relevant if I said anything bad about KN filters. But I did not. Show me where I did. In fact, I had a Haltech CAI on my C5 and it made a definite improvement over the OEM. But I also knew that it was of a different design than the OEM air filter. Installing it was NOT the same thing as using a WIX oil filter (I refuse to use Fram)
I can only assume that you are referring to K&N, after all that is what this thread is about.
I would like to know where you received your data from in order to call b.s. on ANYTHING that I've stated. If you could quote exactly what I said, and then how it's B.S., that would be appreciated. My newbie mind needs a little help grasping this.
Last edited by purvistechie; 10-15-2010 at 01:21 PM.
10-15-2010, 01:40 PM
#97
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St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
Not sure how. Not all aftermarket oil filters are the "same design", the internals ARE different. My point stands. If they are the "same", why is FRAM so bad?
I would like to know where you received your data from in order to call b.s. on ANYTHING that I've stated. If you could quote exactly what I said, and then how it's B.S., that would be appreciated. My newbie mind needs a little help grasping this.
People really get upset when someone implies they got screwed on an aftermarket purchase.
If you REALY want to **** off some folks - tell them they pay too much for their Amsoil or Royal Purple, or Redline.
But I digress.
Here's the part that was
for reasons previously stated. No need to repeat them. BTW - I sure wish I knew how to argue on the internet as well as you young whippersnappers. Have a nice day.
10-15-2010, 01:42 PM
#98
Team Owner
Matt Kenseth is 2 for 2 in NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Auto Club 500 at Daytona and Fontana
Matt Kenseth celebrates his victory of the NASCAR Auto Club 500 at Auto Club Speedway
Matt Kenseth celebrates his victory of the NASCAR Auto Club 500 at Auto Club Speedway
Matt Kenseth followed his NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Daytona 500 victory with a win at the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Auto Club 500 in Fontana, California. His 2 for 2 wins marked the first time a driver has won the first two Cup races of the season since 1997.
In the Auto Club 500, Kenseth beat runner-up Jeff Gordon by 1½ seconds. By the way, Gordon was the driver who won the first two Cup Races of the season in 1997. In Fontana, Kenseth led 84 of 250 laps. He passed Gordon at lap 212 and stayed in first place until the end. Gordon tried to pass, but could not. Kyle Busch came in third. Roush Fenway driver Greg Biffle, a four-time winner at Fontana came in fourth-place.
Matt Kenseth wins the Daytona 500 in Daytona Beach, Florida for the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Auto Club 500
Matt Kenseth wins the Daytona 500 in Daytona Beach, Florida for the NASCAR Sprint Cup Series Auto Club 500
The win was team owner Jack Roush's fifth consecutive victory in this race. "Roush Fenway started off the season with strong wins at Daytona and Fontana," said Charles Meier of K&N Engineering. "K&N filters have been supporting Roush Fenway with our air and oil filters for three seasons. We are very happy to have this relationship because they produce result regularly with their reliable engines and talented drivers. It's a fitting combination with the World's Best Air Filters."
In Daytona, Kenseth took over the lead two laps before NASCAR stopped the season-opening event. Kenseth was recovering from a winless season and initially had bad luck at Daytona International Speedway. In the Daytona 500, he wrecked his primary car and started Sunday's race in last place in a back-up vehicle.
Kenseth managed to turn it up a notch on the track as the rain closed in on the season-opener. He passed Elliot Sadler with 54 laps remaining. Moments later the rain came and a caution came out for an accident. NASCAR stopped the race two laps later and Kenseth was declared the winner.
Two facts remain, it rained in the first two races of the NASCAR Cup Series and Matt Kenseth won both. History will remember who won.
Find K&N products for your vehicle using the K&N application search then use the K&N dealer search to find a K&N dealer in your part of the world.
fr:http://www.knfilters.com/news/news.aspx?id=1825
WIX filters are used by over 20 of the Sprint Cup Cars including.....
Joe Gibbs Racing
Richard Petty Racing
Stewart-Haas Racing
Evernham Enterprises
USARacing
Revolution Racing
Bill Elliott Racing Driver Development Program.
What were you saying about K&N?
10-15-2010, 01:56 PM
#99
Race Director
Then you should also be aware that four time champion Jimmy Johnson and four time champion Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnheart Jr and Mark Martin, all drivers for Rick Hendrick, race with Purolator under the hood.
WIX filters are used by over 20 of the Sprint Cup Cars including.....
Joe Gibbs Racing
Richard Petty Racing
Stewart-Haas Racing
Evernham Enterprises
USARacing
Revolution Racing
Bill Elliott Racing Driver Development Program.
What were you saying about K&N?
WIX filters are used by over 20 of the Sprint Cup Cars including.....
Joe Gibbs Racing
Richard Petty Racing
Stewart-Haas Racing
Evernham Enterprises
USARacing
Revolution Racing
Bill Elliott Racing Driver Development Program.
What were you saying about K&N?
I'll just add that all the Halltech Systems use K&N Filters, and Katech has used and test Halltech Air Intakes. Two more very reputable compaines that use the supposed filters that let all this dirt in the engine
I digress as well, and to stay on topic
On a stock car, with stock tune (as the OP asked 5 pages ago), they (aftermarket filters) are not worht the money. Once you start modding that changes the game obviously.
Last edited by FrankTank; 10-15-2010 at 04:19 PM.
10-15-2010, 01:59 PM
#100
Race Director
Then you should also be aware that four time champion Jimmy Johnson and four time champion Jeff Gordon and Dale Earnheart Jr and Mark Martin, all drivers for Rick Hendrick, race with Purolator under the hood.
WIX filters are used by over 20 of the Sprint Cup Cars including.....
Joe Gibbs Racing
Richard Petty Racing
Stewart-Haas Racing
Evernham Enterprises
USARacing
Revolution Racing
Bill Elliott Racing Driver Development Program.
What were you saying about K&N?
WIX filters are used by over 20 of the Sprint Cup Cars including.....
Joe Gibbs Racing
Richard Petty Racing
Stewart-Haas Racing
Evernham Enterprises
USARacing
Revolution Racing
Bill Elliott Racing Driver Development Program.
What were you saying about K&N?
They all are using PAPER filters on race day with the "good" engines. Roush may drop their name for pay but he uses paper on race day.