Driving impressions from driving GS, Z and my old car
08-22-2010, 01:03 PM
#201
Safety Car
Member Since: Mar 2009
Location: Northeast MA & Mad Beach FL
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I was one of the grand sport's harshest critics.
However I had a chance to drive one and was very impressed.
I have owned two C6 Corvettes. One of them an '05 with Z51, later to be modified with LG Pro Long tube headers, Callaway Honker Cold air intake and tuned, and the other my current Z06 I have owned for going into 4 years now.
Prior to that, I was the owner of a 2003 C5 Corvette. And before that a 1986 Vert.
Every Vette I have owned has been tracked. The '05 seeing more road course events, the '03 seeing more drag strip, the Z06 seeing some of both.
Here is what I found after driving a 2010 grand sport and comparing it to other C6 Vettes I have owned and driven.:
"I have driven LS3 based Vettes before, and the striking thing to me was the lack of low end torque in comparison to the LS7.
Ergo the same obvious thing in the new grand sport I test drove today.
This was an MN6 with the Heritage Package
On a positive note, it most certainly handles better than the base Z51 C6 I had, and the LS3 based C6s I have driven. It handles and brakes, very similar to the Z06 for obvious reasons.
So right off the bat, the wider tires and suspension tweaks, movement of weight towards the rear (eg the battery) have definitely made a difference in it's handling capabilities vs the base narrow bodied C6. And not by a little bit. That much is like night and day I would as a former Z51 equipped owner, have to say. Not even close.
The test drive was on smooth winding back roads with little to no traffic.
LS3 has a different exhaust note and idle to it. The LS7 has a deeper exhaust note and a little more lope on idle than the LS3.
Even still though, as one who grew up near the end of the muscle car era, I never cease to be amazed at how the folks at GM managed to get a 505hp normally aspirated car, to idle as smoothly as the Z06 with it's LS7 does.
In every gear I was able to drive it in, 1st, 2nd, 3rd 4th, the car seemed almost anemic in terms of grunt, vs the LS7. I'm into the gas pedal, and expecting something at least similar to the LS7 this time around, (hand built LS3) but no dice.
However no surprise either, because I have grown accustomed to the low end torque that the larger displacement LS7 gives.
Thus it makes perfect sense that I would miss that, in an LS3 based car. The power delivery of the two engines is different.
Almost like pushing into the gas pedal waiting for it to go or "build up" speed, as opposed to the "instant on" type of power and torque I feel with the LS7. Each time I drive an LS3 based Vette, it makes me appreciate the power and torque curve of the LS7 that much more.
The shifter, a little too loose for me. I am coming from the T56 with an MGW, meaning that the shifts are more precise in my car.
This was almost like going to a wet noodle with very little feel to it. The TR6060, I never have understood what all the raves were about. Not precise enough for me.
OK for those who like a loose shifter. But not OK if you are used to, or have grown used to a precise shifter.
Again, though, in all objectivity somewhat of an "unfair" comparison, because the MGW is pretty much the gold standard of aftermarket shifters.
No stock shifter is likely to compete with it in terms of precision.
The clutch, identical to the clutch and effort in my own car. Operating the clutch in the grand sport took absolutely no getting used to. It was like driving my own car in that regard.
Interior is of course the same, but I have to say in this particular example, it seems that the quality control has improved some over the prior years with the C6. A welcome sight.
The stitching was straight on the seats, the carpet nicely tucked beneath the trim pieces along the console, the "grand sport" stitching in the head rest portions of the seats nicely done.
Overall, the car was fun to drive, indeed, it was a blast. And I'd have to say a little "easier" and "forgiving" to drive in the sense that you could put your foot into, and get further into the throttle without getting into trouble as quickly as you can in the Z06.
Throttle input and positioning, which would have put me into a guard rail on the one road in my Z06, was easily manageable in the grand sport. It required a little less "vigilance" to drive at the edge than my Z06 does.
I don't want to give the impression that one can be careless or aloof with it. But because of it's power level, it would seem to be a bit easier for a driver of less track experience, to absolutely no track experience, to pilot on a track, than a Z06 or ZR1 would be.
It of course goes w/o saying that becoming good on any track takes practice, no matter the car. I had a much easier time handling my 2005 on the road course, but then it was down somewhere around 105hp vs my Z06, (less after I modified the '05.)
Speaking from personal experience, a Z06 just takes a while longer to "learn" to drive on a track. I'm still learning it. Be it a drag strip, or a road course, you have to be willing to "practice", and in some cases practice a lot, in order to get the best results out of it. Either that, or you need to have had some prior experience tracking other cars. If you don't mind that, if you are going to practice and take the time to learn the car, then the Z06 is tough to beat, and not a whole lot can compete with it stock for stock.
However I can see how this car with less power, could be easier and more forgiving for the raw novice to handle vs a lighter, more powerful Z06, or ZR1 even. I'm talking someone who has never in his life been on a track, of any sort, or someone who doesn't really go a lot.
The roads I drove over were winding, and I could take the curves with the throttle position/depression in this car a good bit beyond where I would dare press the gas pedal in my Z06 to take the same spots.
I later drove the same route in my Z06. I found that as I got used to it, I could give the grand sport more gas pedal in the curves w/o running a greater risk of getting into trouble.
But the drawback to this was in exiting the curves and rolling into the throttle. The Z06s power is near instant on when you exit a curve and go on into the go pedal. With the LS3 based grand sport, it felt like you almost had to "wait" for the power to come on. Again though, this is more a reflection of the power delivery of the LS7 vs the LS3.
All of the other stuff the '09s and '10s have, the improved steering, I really did not appreciate.
The steering upgrades started in the '08 models, and other improvements were made in the '09s. I really could not tell much difference in "steering effort" between say an '05 C6 and this '10 grand sport.
The extra weight of the grand sport was unnoticeable. In other words, the car is over 130 lbs heavier than my car, but I could not tell that driving it. It didn't feel heavy or clumsy. You could throw it around no trouble. It just won't exit curves like a Z06.
Straight line, I don't think it would be much of a contest. The Z06's drag strip capabilities are well documented on this forum. But in the twisties the grand sport handles not much differently than the Z06.
Overall, the biggest difference I could tell was that it just didn't have the power and torque, especially the low end torque, that the Z06 has, but then it was never intended to.
Otherwise, the clutch, braking and handling were very similar."
However I had a chance to drive one and was very impressed.
I have owned two C6 Corvettes. One of them an '05 with Z51, later to be modified with LG Pro Long tube headers, Callaway Honker Cold air intake and tuned, and the other my current Z06 I have owned for going into 4 years now.
Prior to that, I was the owner of a 2003 C5 Corvette. And before that a 1986 Vert.
Every Vette I have owned has been tracked. The '05 seeing more road course events, the '03 seeing more drag strip, the Z06 seeing some of both.
Here is what I found after driving a 2010 grand sport and comparing it to other C6 Vettes I have owned and driven.:
"I have driven LS3 based Vettes before, and the striking thing to me was the lack of low end torque in comparison to the LS7.
Ergo the same obvious thing in the new grand sport I test drove today.
This was an MN6 with the Heritage Package
On a positive note, it most certainly handles better than the base Z51 C6 I had, and the LS3 based C6s I have driven. It handles and brakes, very similar to the Z06 for obvious reasons.
So right off the bat, the wider tires and suspension tweaks, movement of weight towards the rear (eg the battery) have definitely made a difference in it's handling capabilities vs the base narrow bodied C6. And not by a little bit. That much is like night and day I would as a former Z51 equipped owner, have to say. Not even close.
The test drive was on smooth winding back roads with little to no traffic.
LS3 has a different exhaust note and idle to it. The LS7 has a deeper exhaust note and a little more lope on idle than the LS3.
Even still though, as one who grew up near the end of the muscle car era, I never cease to be amazed at how the folks at GM managed to get a 505hp normally aspirated car, to idle as smoothly as the Z06 with it's LS7 does.
In every gear I was able to drive it in, 1st, 2nd, 3rd 4th, the car seemed almost anemic in terms of grunt, vs the LS7. I'm into the gas pedal, and expecting something at least similar to the LS7 this time around, (hand built LS3) but no dice.
However no surprise either, because I have grown accustomed to the low end torque that the larger displacement LS7 gives.
Thus it makes perfect sense that I would miss that, in an LS3 based car. The power delivery of the two engines is different.
Almost like pushing into the gas pedal waiting for it to go or "build up" speed, as opposed to the "instant on" type of power and torque I feel with the LS7. Each time I drive an LS3 based Vette, it makes me appreciate the power and torque curve of the LS7 that much more.
The shifter, a little too loose for me. I am coming from the T56 with an MGW, meaning that the shifts are more precise in my car.
This was almost like going to a wet noodle with very little feel to it. The TR6060, I never have understood what all the raves were about. Not precise enough for me.
OK for those who like a loose shifter. But not OK if you are used to, or have grown used to a precise shifter.
Again, though, in all objectivity somewhat of an "unfair" comparison, because the MGW is pretty much the gold standard of aftermarket shifters.
No stock shifter is likely to compete with it in terms of precision.
The clutch, identical to the clutch and effort in my own car. Operating the clutch in the grand sport took absolutely no getting used to. It was like driving my own car in that regard.
Interior is of course the same, but I have to say in this particular example, it seems that the quality control has improved some over the prior years with the C6. A welcome sight.
The stitching was straight on the seats, the carpet nicely tucked beneath the trim pieces along the console, the "grand sport" stitching in the head rest portions of the seats nicely done.
Overall, the car was fun to drive, indeed, it was a blast. And I'd have to say a little "easier" and "forgiving" to drive in the sense that you could put your foot into, and get further into the throttle without getting into trouble as quickly as you can in the Z06.
Throttle input and positioning, which would have put me into a guard rail on the one road in my Z06, was easily manageable in the grand sport. It required a little less "vigilance" to drive at the edge than my Z06 does.
I don't want to give the impression that one can be careless or aloof with it. But because of it's power level, it would seem to be a bit easier for a driver of less track experience, to absolutely no track experience, to pilot on a track, than a Z06 or ZR1 would be.
It of course goes w/o saying that becoming good on any track takes practice, no matter the car. I had a much easier time handling my 2005 on the road course, but then it was down somewhere around 105hp vs my Z06, (less after I modified the '05.)
Speaking from personal experience, a Z06 just takes a while longer to "learn" to drive on a track. I'm still learning it. Be it a drag strip, or a road course, you have to be willing to "practice", and in some cases practice a lot, in order to get the best results out of it. Either that, or you need to have had some prior experience tracking other cars. If you don't mind that, if you are going to practice and take the time to learn the car, then the Z06 is tough to beat, and not a whole lot can compete with it stock for stock.
However I can see how this car with less power, could be easier and more forgiving for the raw novice to handle vs a lighter, more powerful Z06, or ZR1 even. I'm talking someone who has never in his life been on a track, of any sort, or someone who doesn't really go a lot.
The roads I drove over were winding, and I could take the curves with the throttle position/depression in this car a good bit beyond where I would dare press the gas pedal in my Z06 to take the same spots.
I later drove the same route in my Z06. I found that as I got used to it, I could give the grand sport more gas pedal in the curves w/o running a greater risk of getting into trouble.
But the drawback to this was in exiting the curves and rolling into the throttle. The Z06s power is near instant on when you exit a curve and go on into the go pedal. With the LS3 based grand sport, it felt like you almost had to "wait" for the power to come on. Again though, this is more a reflection of the power delivery of the LS7 vs the LS3.
All of the other stuff the '09s and '10s have, the improved steering, I really did not appreciate.
The steering upgrades started in the '08 models, and other improvements were made in the '09s. I really could not tell much difference in "steering effort" between say an '05 C6 and this '10 grand sport.
The extra weight of the grand sport was unnoticeable. In other words, the car is over 130 lbs heavier than my car, but I could not tell that driving it. It didn't feel heavy or clumsy. You could throw it around no trouble. It just won't exit curves like a Z06.
Straight line, I don't think it would be much of a contest. The Z06's drag strip capabilities are well documented on this forum. But in the twisties the grand sport handles not much differently than the Z06.
Overall, the biggest difference I could tell was that it just didn't have the power and torque, especially the low end torque, that the Z06 has, but then it was never intended to.
Otherwise, the clutch, braking and handling were very similar."
08-22-2010, 01:11 PM
#202
Le Mans Master
This guy has a reputation for posting up horse crap
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...aws-of-c5.html
I love this one, where he tries to impress others with his knowledge of "physics".
But then he came in here attempting to do the same thing.
What a ******g joke.
Oh well, at least it partly explains his "Japanese" remark.
More of his gibberish:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...ports-car.html
For vettesuspension.......do you recall another "engineer" who used to try and impress us with his knowledge of physics, used to love toyotas, and used to try and convince us that the vette was not a sports car?
Ah yes, here we go.
. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1571195109-post33.html
Don't say I never did nuthin for ya.
I guess his new Z06, isn't a sports car either.
Remember that comment I made about the monkeys earlier in the thread?
Still more of his bull****
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...1791-blah.html
But this last series of posts, takes the cake.
This couple of gems is especially for you owners of RED corvettes.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...post1571760498
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...post1571760658
You know, reading his posts, this Peter, seems like a real ****.
He mentioned earlier that I had chosen the wrong person to pick on.
I asked him what he meant by that and his silence is deafening.
Perhaps now he is ready to speak up and answer that.
:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...aws-of-c5.html
I love this one, where he tries to impress others with his knowledge of "physics".
But then he came in here attempting to do the same thing.
What a ******g joke.
Oh well, at least it partly explains his "Japanese" remark.
More of his gibberish:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...ports-car.html
For vettesuspension.......do you recall another "engineer" who used to try and impress us with his knowledge of physics, used to love toyotas, and used to try and convince us that the vette was not a sports car?
Ah yes, here we go.
. http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1571195109-post33.htmlDon't say I never did nuthin for ya.
I guess his new Z06, isn't a sports car either.
Remember that comment I made about the monkeys earlier in the thread? Still more of his bull****
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...1791-blah.html
But this last series of posts, takes the cake.
This couple of gems is especially for you owners of RED corvettes.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...post1571760498
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...post1571760658
You know, reading his posts, this Peter, seems like a real ****.
He mentioned earlier that I had chosen the wrong person to pick on.
I asked him what he meant by that and his silence is deafening.
Perhaps now he is ready to speak up and answer that.
:
You have without question outdone yourself.
The quote below is quite revealing along with a lot of "gibberish" as you correctly state.
""What is exactly a "sports car" and how does C5 fit in?
I personally never considered a vette a sports car, just a nifty sporty personal touring coupe. This is beginning with C5, not the previous takes. Talking about stock vette"""
As for the Toyota guy and so called engineer.
Yes, I remember him quite well. I believe his name was "SD" for short. The guy was full of more
then a farm. He was a investor in Toyota and would try to convince members on CF how great Toyota's were and yes, that the Vette was not a sports car. Where is he now after all of their problems? Would love to hear his defense of Toyota now. One other note on that guy: After a debate in which he was taken to the shed a member sent me a P.M and actually asked me to let up on him because he was one of the 3 wise men on the forum.
08-22-2010, 01:27 PM
#204
Goon Squad King of Battle
Member Since: May 2008
Location: 🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑🐑
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13x3- '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23
I really enjoy watching the inexperienced CF members fall prey to QS.
Surgeon?
OMG!!! Good stuff.
08-22-2010, 01:28 PM
#205
Outstanding post and great find QS. You have without question outdone yourself.
The quote below is quite revealing along with a lot of "gibberish" as you correctly state.
""What is exactly a "sports car" and how does C5 fit in?
I personally never considered a vette a sports car, just a nifty sporty personal touring coupe. This is beginning with C5, not the previous takes. Talking about stock vette"""
You have without question outdone yourself.The quote below is quite revealing along with a lot of "gibberish" as you correctly state.
""What is exactly a "sports car" and how does C5 fit in?
I personally never considered a vette a sports car, just a nifty sporty personal touring coupe. This is beginning with C5, not the previous takes. Talking about stock vette"""
Yes, that one was classic.
This one was my favorite one though.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1571767335-post68.html
08-22-2010, 01:33 PM
#206
Le Mans Master
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Member Since: Aug 2009
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If you strive to be perceived as an expert, stop telling other people they are stupid, know nothing about cars and do not know how to drive just because they have different opinion on the subject.
I'll stop myself from calling you any names as well, seems to me that intelligent people already did that for themselves.
08-22-2010, 01:35 PM
#207
Most of us here, our chosen professions have no relevance to the discussion of cars. I only mentioned it in response to his mouthing off about being an engineer.
I'm really not one for discussing what I do for a living on this forum.
08-22-2010, 01:38 PM
#209
Melting Slicks
This couple of gems is especially for you owners of RED corvettes.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...post1571760498
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...post1571760658
You know, reading his posts, this Peter, seems like a real ****.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...post1571760498
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...post1571760658
You know, reading his posts, this Peter, seems like a real ****.
Peter, please stay out of that strong California sun (you can purchase one of those cute umbrella hats)
you have made some asinine statements, but the one that bugs me the most is your insult of Red Corvette owners
Red -represents joy, sexuality, passion, sensitivity, love, vigor, willpower, rage, anger, leadership, courage.
Yellow - represents caution, decay, sickness, and jealousy
Yellow* is the right color for YOU
*not an hater of yellow , it was my second choice
08-22-2010, 01:40 PM
#211
Goon Squad King of Battle
Member Since: May 2008
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13x3- '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23
This is the first time I've seen QS turn on someone that was FOR the Z06. A first!
08-22-2010, 01:43 PM
#212
LOL at your "review" again. Look up what "rational" means. And let me see, you spent over two days now arguing someone else's opinion in a fashion that gives political election smear campaigns bad name. If you're as smart as you claim you are, you would not be even asking why you picked a wrong person, just quietly fading into the background instead. I guess you may not be all that smart after all If you strive to be perceived as an expert, stop telling other people they are stupid, know nothing about cars and do not know how to drive just because they have different opinion on the subject. I'll stop myself from calling you any names as well, seems to me that intelligent people already did that for themselves.
If you strive to be perceived as an expert, stop telling other people they are stupid, know nothing about cars and do not know how to drive just because they have different opinion on the subject. I'll stop myself from calling you any names as well, seems to me that intelligent people already did that for themselves.You may have run roughshod over those in the C5 section, but that $#** won't work over here.
Oh, and I typically don't bother telling stupid folk that they are stupid.
What's the point when they are too stupid to comprehend it anyway.
Say, by the way.......are you implying that I called you "stupid"?
08-22-2010, 01:44 PM
#213
Goon Squad King of Battle
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13x3- '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23
Has absolutely nothing to do with being fearful. You are in a no win argument with someone who will never submit and has never admitted being wrong... EVER. 
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
The rest of us just sit back for the ride. These threads only come about every three weeks or so.
I miss the old Z51 threads.
PS: i just noticed i went over 7k posts.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
The rest of us just sit back for the ride. These threads only come about every three weeks or so.
I miss the old Z51 threads.
PS: i just noticed i went over 7k posts.
08-22-2010, 01:53 PM
#214
To be sure, I wish the Scion forums would take him instead.
That he is a Z06 owner, appears to be an embarrassment to every Z06 owner, past, present or future.
How much would it cost us for you folks in C6 general to take him off our hands?
I admit it. I already talked to the C5 folk, and they won't take him back at any price. Let's make a deal.
08-22-2010, 01:56 PM
#215
Goon Squad King of Battle
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St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13x3- '14-'15-'16-'17-'18-'19-'20-'21-'22-'23
Believe me, I wish there were some sort of way we could send him back to the C5 crowd, but we both know that they are elated to get rid of him and probably wouldn't even consider taking him back.
To be sure, I wish the Scion forums would take him instead.
That he is a Z06 owner, appears to be an embarrassment to every Z06 owner, past, present or future.
How much would it cost us for you folks in C6 general to take him off our hands?
I admit it. I already talked to the C5 folk, and they won't take him back at any price. Let's make a deal.
To be sure, I wish the Scion forums would take him instead.
That he is a Z06 owner, appears to be an embarrassment to every Z06 owner, past, present or future.
How much would it cost us for you folks in C6 general to take him off our hands?
I admit it. I already talked to the C5 folk, and they won't take him back at any price. Let's make a deal.
OMG!!
Now THAT is funny stuff right there!
Classic QS. He is on his game today.
08-22-2010, 02:17 PM
#217
Le Mans Master
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Has absolutely nothing to do with being fearful. You are in a no win argument with someone who will never submit and has never admitted being wrong... EVER.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
The rest of us just sit back for the ride. These threads only come about every three weeks or so.
I miss the old Z51 threads.
PS: i just noticed i went over 7k posts.
Been there, done that, got the t-shirt.
The rest of us just sit back for the ride. These threads only come about every three weeks or so.
I miss the old Z51 threads.
PS: i just noticed i went over 7k posts.
08-22-2010, 02:21 PM
#218
Le Mans Master
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Believe me, I wish there were some sort of way we could send him back to the C5 crowd, but we both know that they are elated to get rid of him and probably wouldn't even consider taking him back.
To be sure, I wish the Scion forums would take him instead.
That he is a Z06 owner, appears to be an embarrassment to every Z06 owner, past, present or future.
How much would it cost us for you folks in C6 general to take him off our hands?
I admit it. I already talked to the C5 folk, and they won't take him back at any price. Let's make a deal.
To be sure, I wish the Scion forums would take him instead.
That he is a Z06 owner, appears to be an embarrassment to every Z06 owner, past, present or future.
How much would it cost us for you folks in C6 general to take him off our hands?
I admit it. I already talked to the C5 folk, and they won't take him back at any price. Let's make a deal.
08-22-2010, 02:25 PM
#219
Le Mans Master
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08-22-2010, 02:28 PM
#220
Le Mans Master
Yes, that one was classic.
This one was my favorite one though.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1571767335-post68.html
This one was my favorite one though.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/1571767335-post68.html
The Scion XB? WTF is that?
I have rarely seen anything quite as odd looking as any Scion. I'm sure they are cute little vehicles for a teen. However, to be considered seriously in any discussion other then a option for a teenaged childs first or second vehicle is absurd.
I actually just googled the Scion XB. You have to be kidding.