GM high performance divisions disbanded
04-02-2009, 11:01 PM
#41
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St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
Yes, light weight, imagine a 2500lbs Vette with let's say a 3.5L V8 with all the wiz bang gadgets that makes 350HP and gets let's say 33mpg on the highway. GM could build this car right now. 
I'm all for it. Light weight means better handling and consumables like tires and brakes last longer.
I'm all for it. Light weight means better handling and consumables like tires and brakes last longer.GM was fighting for every gram of weight reduction all the way back to 1997 (actually before) w/ C5. To think they could just slice off 600 lbs is unrealistic, unless you want to drive a Lotus Esprit Corvette.
Last edited by need-for-speed; 04-03-2009 at 12:31 AM.
04-02-2009, 11:47 PM
#42
Race Director
No offense intended. But I don't know where you guys get this. It's not like GM has a bunch of dumbass angineers who leave low hanging fruit. There is no magic tweak screw. They can only lean out the A/F ratio so much before detonation becomes an issue.
GM was fighting for every gram added all the way back to 1997 (actually before) w/ C5. To think they could just slice off 600 lbs is unrealistic, unless you want to drive a Lotus Esprit Corvette.
GM was fighting for every gram added all the way back to 1997 (actually before) w/ C5. To think they could just slice off 600 lbs is unrealistic, unless you want to drive a Lotus Esprit Corvette.
04-03-2009, 12:05 AM
#43
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St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
OTOH, we have the new TATA Motors (owner of Jaguar and Land Rover) 5 passenger sedan which gets 63 MPG and retails for $1976 (in India). Of course it can't be sold in the US because it violates a myriad of federal and California regulations. But it is an existence proof that if you get government bureaucrats out of the business of designing and building cars, building a light car with outstanding MPG that retails for a low price is completely feasible today in 2009. When those of us who remember when US automobiles cost under $2,000 wonder why they no longer exist here, we only have to look to Washington's meddling to see the reasons why.
to install it, pull a vacumn and fill it.
Move forward to the mid 1990's when the otherwise unemployable "scientists" convince the world that R-12 would lead to the melting of the polar ice caps and submerging of Kalifornia. Now, R-12 is outlawed. A mechanic has to spend several thousand dollars for recycling equipment and be licensed to work on HVAC systems. Poor peolpe drive around in cars w/o A/C beacause they don't have $1,500 to get the A/C system on a $1,600 car fixed.
Gotta love the liberals - looking out for the poor folks.
04-03-2009, 12:10 AM
#44
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St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
No problem. Obama will save you.
04-03-2009, 12:19 AM
#45
Melting Slicks
The biggest problem for corvette is the way they figure the mileage is for passenger mileage. So if a corvette gets 30mpg than it get 60 passenger miles per gallon because only 2 people can ride in it. That is how these SUVs and such have been getting around it. If they ge 18mpg but seat 8 people than they are getting 144 passenger miles and so on. Although how often do you see minivans and SUVs loaded with passengers?
04-03-2009, 12:23 AM
#46
Race Director
"The world" sure thinks he will. He's a "rock star" in England . . . as well as here. Unbelievable isn't it 
Anyway, hope the vette will be saved!
04-03-2009, 12:28 AM
#47
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St. Jude Donor '03,'04,'05,'07,08,'09,'10,’17
Gosh, no kidding, compared to the terrific job corporations have been doing -I mean look at the results of the banking corporations, health care corporations, automotive corporations, etc, etc ,etc - they are doing such a good job - of running the country into the ground.
Try and think a little, government regulations have resulted in the least polluting and highest mpg Vettes ever AND the fastest. So the sky is not falling just because we are trying to cut our use of foreign oil.
Try and think a little, government regulations have resulted in the least polluting and highest mpg Vettes ever AND the fastest. So the sky is not falling just because we are trying to cut our use of foreign oil.
Not to mention corporations that make the products that your dwelling is made of, the car you drive, the electricity that powers the climate control system in your home that corporations built and transported to your home on roads built by contractors (corporations) in trucks built by corporations powered by fuel which was refined in a plant owned by a corporation from crude oil produced by a corporation and transported in a pipeline owned by a corporation who uses telemetry designed and produced by an electronic corporation monitored in a control room in a plant by people who work for a corportation which has paint on the outside walls which was made by a corporation by employeees (paid by a corporation) who ate breakfast at a restaurant owned by a corporation that cooks food that was grown by a large agri corporation that used fertilizer produced by a corporation that has an office building with shingles on the roof made by a corporation which is built on a lot which was graded by a bulldozer which was built by a corporation.
Of course, the secret that the libs haven't figured out is that we all know corporations exist to make a profit. And to do so, they hire peole like me. Not because they like me. But because they need me.
Of course, the unskilled liberals are afraid to rely on their ability to thrive in such an environment, so they prefer to put heir trust in the govenrment to guarantee their subsistance.
But you're right. The goverment would do a much better job, with all the efficiency of your local VA hospital or Tax Accessors office.
I LOVE Utopia !!!
Yeah - he's over there now kissing *** and apologizing on our behalf.
04-03-2009, 12:38 AM
#49
Burning Brakes
04-03-2009, 12:47 AM
#50
The biggest problem for corvette is the way they figure the mileage is for passenger mileage. So if a corvette gets 30mpg than it get 60 passenger miles per gallon because only 2 people can ride in it. That is how these SUVs and such have been getting around it. If they ge 18mpg but seat 8 people than they are getting 144 passenger miles and so on. Although how often do you see minivans and SUVs loaded with passengers?
CAFE is not calculated on a per passenger basis. Never was. Trucks haven't been "getting around" anything. They've been following the law, which says light trucks are rquired to meet a lower CAFE than cars. Trucks over 8500 pounds have up until now been completely exempt from CAFE. This is because the government has assumed that 3/4 ton and larger trucks are bought primarily by people who have a business need for a truck to haul large loads. For example, my F350 doesn't have to meet any CAFE MPG, but it does have to be efficient enough to make sense for my business. If I could find a work truck with a lower operating cost, I wouldn't need government to tell me to buy it.
04-03-2009, 01:03 AM
#51
Team Owner
Thread Starter
Who is this "they" of which you speak?
CAFE is not calculated on a per passenger basis. Never was. Trucks haven't been "getting around" anything. They've been following the law, which says light trucks are rquired to meet a lower CAFE than cars. Trucks over 8500 pounds have up until now been completely exempt from CAFE. This is because the government has assumed that 3/4 ton and larger trucks are bought primarily by people who have a business need for a truck to haul large loads. For example, my F350 doesn't have to meet any CAFE MPG, but it does have to be efficient enough to make sense for my business. If I could find a work truck with a lower operating cost, I wouldn't need government to tell me to buy it.
CAFE is not calculated on a per passenger basis. Never was. Trucks haven't been "getting around" anything. They've been following the law, which says light trucks are rquired to meet a lower CAFE than cars. Trucks over 8500 pounds have up until now been completely exempt from CAFE. This is because the government has assumed that 3/4 ton and larger trucks are bought primarily by people who have a business need for a truck to haul large loads. For example, my F350 doesn't have to meet any CAFE MPG, but it does have to be efficient enough to make sense for my business. If I could find a work truck with a lower operating cost, I wouldn't need government to tell me to buy it.
Then the Cadillac CTS-V and Corvette aren't doomed
04-03-2009, 01:34 AM
#52
Well, if you believe the Corvette is a greater than 8500 pound truck, you might have a case. But unfortunately for that plan, 1) the Corvette isn't a truck, and 2) the Obama government has closed that truck exemption anyway.
04-03-2009, 04:09 AM
#53
Racer
[QUOTE=KenHorse;1569543871]Don't count on it. Government does one thing and one thing well - take anything it touches and FUBAR it. GM will be no different unfortunately....[/QUOTE
A-men to that brother, too many bosses who want to be in charge and make the decisions, but responsibility, no way. Same old song and dance, just look at Congress and the AIG bonus. They all ran like rats, especially Chris Dodd, the head cheese eating rat.
A-men to that brother, too many bosses who want to be in charge and make the decisions, but responsibility, no way. Same old song and dance, just look at Congress and the AIG bonus. They all ran like rats, especially Chris Dodd, the head cheese eating rat.
04-03-2009, 09:23 AM
#54
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04-03-2009, 10:26 AM
#55
Team Owner
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Please we can disagree but at least have clarity! The first 6 years of the Bush administration the unemployment was at record low levels, the deficit was being payed down despite two wars! The first wave of the dumbing down of america resulted in Democrats taking over the house and senate for Bush's last two years. Guess who controls the budget?! Thats when the economy started to derail. Not drilling for oil when gas was $4.50 or having a sustainable energy policy, the sub prime mortgage mess, green legislation, policies that tax and punish big and small business are all on the Dems which has led us to this financial disaster.
oh no
somehow this has turned into politics
04-03-2009, 11:58 AM
#57
Advanced
Gosh, no kidding, compared to the terrific job corporations have been doing -I mean look at the results of the banking corporations, health care corporations, automotive corporations, etc, etc ,etc - they are doing such a good job - of running the country into the ground.
Try and think a little, government regulations have resulted in the least polluting and highest mpg Vettes ever AND the fastest. So the sky is not falling just because we are trying to cut our use of foreign oil.
Try and think a little, government regulations have resulted in the least polluting and highest mpg Vettes ever AND the fastest. So the sky is not falling just because we are trying to cut our use of foreign oil.
04-03-2009, 12:14 PM
#59
Please we can disagree but at least have clarity! The first 6 years of the Bush administration the unemployment was at record low levels, the deficit was being payed down despite two wars! The first wave of the dumbing down of america resulted in Democrats taking over the house and senate for Bush's last two years. Guess who controls the budget?! Thats when the economy started to derail. Not drilling for oil when gas was $4.50 or having a sustainable energy policy, the sub prime mortgage mess, green legislation, policies that tax and punish big and small business are all on the Dems which has led us to this financial disaster.
i didn't vote for democrats.. i didnt vote for obama. i voted for the best of bad choices. and this happens to be republicans, sadly..
both democrats and republicans are big time spenders. the difference is, the democrats will do so while raising your taxes to pay for part of it and the democrats will do it will mortgaging your children's future to do it..
they both suck.
oh.. and btw.. it is bush's fault that we now have obama as president and a democratic congress...
04-03-2009, 12:18 PM
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