Not Yet a F55 Convert
03-23-2009, 08:04 AM
#41
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F55 versus base suspension
The F55 uses the base suspension springs and sway bars so any improvement over base is all in the electronic shocks. IMHO it is a significant difference. Touring is somewhat tighter than base but not objectionably and Sport is totally different although on most roads you won't feel a lot of difference.
You can drive over swells at higher speeds without bottoming out or going air borne in Sport because the control algorithm is geared primarily on keeping the tires firmly on the road and in Touring is more compliant that is sacrificing tire contact of ride but most of the time it is not a big difference. When I feel good and adventurous I keep in in Sport all the time but at times I feel a little fatigued I will put in Touring so it is a bit smoother especially on rough roads. But again it is normally not a huge difference.
I have put on the "famous" Z51 sway bars to tighten the turns and it does help a bunch on turns but has little to no effect on the ride most of the time. I think that is a really good and inexpensive mod for F55s.
For my driving I will never need the extra coolers and even in warm Houston, TX my friend with a Z51 has problems when the temperatures are around 40 degrees with traction. In sum, especially for non-track cars, F55 is a good choice and it is the future and it is here!
You can drive over swells at higher speeds without bottoming out or going air borne in Sport because the control algorithm is geared primarily on keeping the tires firmly on the road and in Touring is more compliant that is sacrificing tire contact of ride but most of the time it is not a big difference. When I feel good and adventurous I keep in in Sport all the time but at times I feel a little fatigued I will put in Touring so it is a bit smoother especially on rough roads. But again it is normally not a huge difference.
I have put on the "famous" Z51 sway bars to tighten the turns and it does help a bunch on turns but has little to no effect on the ride most of the time. I think that is a really good and inexpensive mod for F55s.
For my driving I will never need the extra coolers and even in warm Houston, TX my friend with a Z51 has problems when the temperatures are around 40 degrees with traction. In sum, especially for non-track cars, F55 is a good choice and it is the future and it is here!
03-23-2009, 08:59 AM
#42
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '09-'11
IMHO, you can't fully appreciate what F55 is capable of until you drive fast & aggressively on a road with many curves, bumps, dips and undulations. This is where it really shines. The shocks stiffen dramatically under these conditions. I recommend the Z51 sway bars.
03-23-2009, 09:30 AM
#43
Le Mans Master
A few of us on the board have had the opportunity of owning C6's with both the Z51 and F55 suspension setups. My 2005 coupe was set up with the Z51 package and the MN6 transmission. My current 2009 vert is optioned out with the F55 and the MN6.
The Z51 is a very impressive option...period. It provides the sharpest response with a minimal amount of body roll and squat. With the MN6, it also provides more aggressive feeling transmission ratios, although this does not really result in any acceleration advantage. The addition of the coolers is great if you track the car...otherwise it means nothing. The Z51 enjoys a skid pad advantage of about .97 versus .93 g's of lateral acceleration, however this is a result of the stickier SC tires that are included with the package, not the suspension itself. The tires are a mixed blessing, trading off wear characteristics and cold weather performance for the dry road adhesion.
The F55 package does not quite have the sharp feel of the Z51. In Tour mode, in fact, quite a bit of body motion can be felt. It is a much more compliant ride than the Z51, but certainly does not "ride like a Cadillac" by any stretch of the imagination. It does have the capability of smoothing out the harshest roads though, and it can comfortably negotiate breaks in the pavement that would be teeth shattering in the Z51. In Sport mode it seems to tighten up quite a bit, with a reduction in body motion and much less compliance over rough roads. With the addition of the Z51 sway bars, which I have on my own car, the ride is slightly stiffer with a marked reduction in body roll. It's still very forgiving in Tour mode, and feels as stiff as the Z51 when in Sport mode.
If my local roads were not quite as much of a disaster as they currently are, I undoubtedly would have stayed with the Z51 on my 2009. The Z51 can provide a surprisingly comfortable ride on reasonably good roads, and even not get too uncomfortble on moderately rough roads. On bad roads, however, it does get punishing. Railroad tracks, pot holes, pavement breaks, washboard surfaces, and heavy crowns all can totally unsettle the tightly sprung Z51 suspension. The combination of bad pavement and sharp turns further upsets the Z51. Personally, I got to the point where I would avoid certain stretches of roads. So, for me, I had to figure out a way to retain the excellent handling characteristics of the Z51 while compensating for my miserable driving environment. The F55 with the Z51 sway bars has turned out to be a fine compromise.
While the base tires won't allow me to reach the high lateral forces I could with the Z51, the overall handling characteristics are actually quite similar when in Sport mode. In Tour mode, there is more motion and the car does not feel quite as sharp, but I do use Tour mode for the majority of my driving simply because there are so few routes I can take that don't involve broken or rough surfaces. Roads I always avoided with the Z51 are now easily driven on.
If you are blessed with decent roads and want the best handling feel, the Z51 is a fine choice. If your driving world is not on the streets of Utopia however, you may find that the F55, especially with the Z51 sways, is a very logical compromise. Either way, these cars are capable of much more than the average driver can do.
The Z51 is a very impressive option...period. It provides the sharpest response with a minimal amount of body roll and squat. With the MN6, it also provides more aggressive feeling transmission ratios, although this does not really result in any acceleration advantage. The addition of the coolers is great if you track the car...otherwise it means nothing. The Z51 enjoys a skid pad advantage of about .97 versus .93 g's of lateral acceleration, however this is a result of the stickier SC tires that are included with the package, not the suspension itself. The tires are a mixed blessing, trading off wear characteristics and cold weather performance for the dry road adhesion.
The F55 package does not quite have the sharp feel of the Z51. In Tour mode, in fact, quite a bit of body motion can be felt. It is a much more compliant ride than the Z51, but certainly does not "ride like a Cadillac" by any stretch of the imagination. It does have the capability of smoothing out the harshest roads though, and it can comfortably negotiate breaks in the pavement that would be teeth shattering in the Z51. In Sport mode it seems to tighten up quite a bit, with a reduction in body motion and much less compliance over rough roads. With the addition of the Z51 sway bars, which I have on my own car, the ride is slightly stiffer with a marked reduction in body roll. It's still very forgiving in Tour mode, and feels as stiff as the Z51 when in Sport mode.
If my local roads were not quite as much of a disaster as they currently are, I undoubtedly would have stayed with the Z51 on my 2009. The Z51 can provide a surprisingly comfortable ride on reasonably good roads, and even not get too uncomfortble on moderately rough roads. On bad roads, however, it does get punishing. Railroad tracks, pot holes, pavement breaks, washboard surfaces, and heavy crowns all can totally unsettle the tightly sprung Z51 suspension. The combination of bad pavement and sharp turns further upsets the Z51. Personally, I got to the point where I would avoid certain stretches of roads. So, for me, I had to figure out a way to retain the excellent handling characteristics of the Z51 while compensating for my miserable driving environment. The F55 with the Z51 sway bars has turned out to be a fine compromise.
While the base tires won't allow me to reach the high lateral forces I could with the Z51, the overall handling characteristics are actually quite similar when in Sport mode. In Tour mode, there is more motion and the car does not feel quite as sharp, but I do use Tour mode for the majority of my driving simply because there are so few routes I can take that don't involve broken or rough surfaces. Roads I always avoided with the Z51 are now easily driven on.
If you are blessed with decent roads and want the best handling feel, the Z51 is a fine choice. If your driving world is not on the streets of Utopia however, you may find that the F55, especially with the Z51 sways, is a very logical compromise. Either way, these cars are capable of much more than the average driver can do.
Last edited by StanNH; 03-23-2009 at 12:14 PM.
03-23-2009, 12:09 PM
#44
Pro
Thread Starter
The last two posts and a few others were quite comprehensive and helpful.
I wish someone with experience with F55 and Z51 would comment on this observation and theory:
I feel and also theorize that on cruising straight freeways, rated in quality say from A to C+, the Z51 absorbs more and transmits less vibration and is actually slightly smoother than the F55. It is not until the car is driven on lesser quality roads before the F55 potential really activates and is superior to the Z51.
I wish someone with experience with F55 and Z51 would comment on this observation and theory:
I feel and also theorize that on cruising straight freeways, rated in quality say from A to C+, the Z51 absorbs more and transmits less vibration and is actually slightly smoother than the F55. It is not until the car is driven on lesser quality roads before the F55 potential really activates and is superior to the Z51.
03-23-2009, 12:22 PM
#45
Le Mans Master
I feel and also theorize that on cruising straight freeways, rated in quality say from A to C+, the Z51 absorbs more and transmits less vibration and is actually slightly smoother than the F55. It is not until the car is driven on lesser quality roads before the F55 potential really activates and is superior to the Z51.
I can't think of a single instance when my Z51 was not a harder ride than my F55 in Tour mode. Any comparison you make, however, must take the mode into consideration; since it can have a dramatic effect on the ride and handling characteristics of any F55 equipped car.
Last edited by StanNH; 03-23-2009 at 12:32 PM.
03-23-2009, 12:58 PM
#48
Pro
Thread Starter
Have to disagree partially on that one. On straight smooth roads (A & B+) I can't imagine anyone saying the F55 is smoother than Z51.
03-23-2009, 01:15 PM
#49
You theorized that from A to C+ roads....yada yada and you wanted opinions, right? I think Mo was saying that OVERALL he thought F55 was smoother and I would agree with him and the others. Are we now to assume that you have driven both and you're not really asking a question or theorizing but, rather, stating an opinion?
03-23-2009, 01:51 PM
#50
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Thread Starter
You theorized that from A to C+ roads....yada yada and you wanted opinions, right? I think Mo was saying that OVERALL he thought F55 was smoother and I would agree with him and the others. Are we now to assume that you have driven both and you're not really asking a question or theorizing but, rather, stating an opinion?
As others have also said, it didn't feel like the F55 comes into play until the bumpy extremes. Could it be possible that the Z51 absorbs smaller stuff better than F55?
For me, on most straight roads the Z51 felt smoother than the Z55 in sport.
03-23-2009, 02:07 PM
#51
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You said:
Now you are saying:
I didn't see the IN SPORT before, I think you added this later...I drive mine in Tour normally, so I guess I don't know about that one. I don't put it into Sport mode til I hit a slightly curvy or bumpy road. AND, I haven't driven a Z51 in well over a year.
FWIW, IF I were to just want to go real fast suddenly in a straight line, I would very likely shift into Sport mode first.
I wish someone with experience with F55 and Z51 would comment on this observation and theory:
I feel and also theorize that on cruising straight freeways, rated in quality say from A to C+, the Z51 absorbs more and transmits less vibration and is actually slightly smoother than the F55. It is not until the car is driven on lesser quality roads before the F55 potential really activates and is superior to the Z51.
I feel and also theorize that on cruising straight freeways, rated in quality say from A to C+, the Z51 absorbs more and transmits less vibration and is actually slightly smoother than the F55. It is not until the car is driven on lesser quality roads before the F55 potential really activates and is superior to the Z51.
For me, on most straight roads the Z51 felt smoother than the Z55 in sport.
FWIW, IF I were to just want to go real fast suddenly in a straight line, I would very likely shift into Sport mode first.
03-23-2009, 02:25 PM
#52
Le Mans Master
I think I laid it out on my first post.
As others have also said, it didn't feel like the F55 comes into play until the bumpy extremes. Could it be possible that the Z51 absorbs smaller stuff better than F55?
For me, on most straight roads the Z51 felt smoother than the Z55 in sport.
As others have also said, it didn't feel like the F55 comes into play until the bumpy extremes. Could it be possible that the Z51 absorbs smaller stuff better than F55?
For me, on most straight roads the Z51 felt smoother than the Z55 in sport.
In Sport mode, I guess it's possible the Z51 may seem smoother on a flat surface. I would guess though, that most owners of the F55 would leave the car in Tour mode unless they intended to drive aggressively. The ability to change the suspension algorithm is what makes this option so attractive.
03-23-2009, 03:30 PM
#53
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Another Option!
Unfortunately, if you want both worlds, get F55 AND ADD Z51 SWAY BARS. Think 'bout a scaled down ZR1, it ain't no Z51, but handles like a Z51 or possibility better, those test drives cannot compare to F55/Z51 sways.
03-23-2009, 07:42 PM
#54
Melting Slicks
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In regard to your request for specific input from someone with experience with both F55 and Z51. I have owned both. I currently own both. I have driven both for multiple years. Furthermore, I have had both concurrently in both the C5 and C6 generations.
On smooth interstate or other good road in my area (the majority of roads in my area are good) there is absolutely nothing unpleasant or uncomfortable about the Z51 suspension. However, any perception that the Z51 is smoother than the F55, even in the very narrow parameters that you state, is I think you're individual perception only.
I cannot support that hypothesis.
My extensive personal experience in the environment in which I drive does not find that to be true.
From my following of this subject, I am beginning to wonder about the objectivity of the question being asked. For the record I very much appreciate both and do not think that either F55 or Z51 is superior to the other. They are simply different.
On smooth interstate or other good road in my area (the majority of roads in my area are good) there is absolutely nothing unpleasant or uncomfortable about the Z51 suspension. However, any perception that the Z51 is smoother than the F55, even in the very narrow parameters that you state, is I think you're individual perception only.
I cannot support that hypothesis.
My extensive personal experience in the environment in which I drive does not find that to be true.
From my following of this subject, I am beginning to wonder about the objectivity of the question being asked. For the record I very much appreciate both and do not think that either F55 or Z51 is superior to the other. They are simply different.
03-23-2009, 08:38 PM
#55
Pro
Thread Starter
In regard to your request for specific input from someone with experience with both F55 and Z51. I have owned both. I currently own both. I have driven both for multiple years. Furthermore, I have had both concurrently in both the C5 and C6 generations.
On smooth interstate or other good road in my area (the majority of roads in my area are good) there is absolutely nothing unpleasant or uncomfortable about the Z51 suspension. However, any perception that the Z51 is smoother than the F55, even in the very narrow parameters that you state, is I think you're individual perception only.
I cannot support that hypothesis.
My extensive personal experience in the environment in which I drive does not find that to be true.
From my following of this subject, I am beginning to wonder about the objectivity of the question being asked. For the record I very much appreciate both and do not think that either F55 or Z51 is superior to the other. They are simply different.
On smooth interstate or other good road in my area (the majority of roads in my area are good) there is absolutely nothing unpleasant or uncomfortable about the Z51 suspension. However, any perception that the Z51 is smoother than the F55, even in the very narrow parameters that you state, is I think you're individual perception only.
I cannot support that hypothesis.
My extensive personal experience in the environment in which I drive does not find that to be true.
From my following of this subject, I am beginning to wonder about the objectivity of the question being asked. For the record I very much appreciate both and do not think that either F55 or Z51 is superior to the other. They are simply different.
03-23-2009, 08:52 PM
#56
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I own a Z51. When I was test driving the different cars, I expected the Z51 suspension to be really rough handling because of things I read here. It wasn't the case at all. I ended up going with it because it felt good all around, and I couldn't imagine a need to ever want a softer ride then the Z51 offers for this kind of car.
I would only be interested in a tunable suspension option if the "soft" setting was similar to the Z51, and the firm setting took it another notch further into performance territory.
I would only be interested in a tunable suspension option if the "soft" setting was similar to the Z51, and the firm setting took it another notch further into performance territory.
03-23-2009, 09:31 PM
#58
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03-23-2009, 11:03 PM
#59
Melting Slicks
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My first C5 was 98 with Z51. Kept it for 7 yrs. My second C5 was an 03 with F55. Still have it, and had concurrently with the 98. My third C5 was a Z06. My first C6 was an 05 with Z51, my second C6 was an 07 with F55. My third C6 is an 09 with Z51. I drive about 20K per year, but spread it across several cars. I do have a lot of seat time in both, and I sincerely hope the input is helpful.
Good luck with your decision.
03-23-2009, 11:40 PM
#60
