harddrivin1le

It doesn't take a genius to see how the overly soft factory foam used in the bottom cushion will extrude right through those widely spaced sections of thin wires once someone sits in the seat.

Note that there are no wires running in the lateral direction at all. Equally spaced lateral wires would greatly strengthen the wire structure, reduce "sag" and would also greatly reduce the likelihood of foam extrusion.

Of course, those wires might increase the cost of each seat by 50 cents, so they don't to it. High density foam would probably add another 50 cents per seat. That's $2 or so per vehicle * the 50,000 or so C6s sold annually. So they "save" $100,000 or so per year by using inferior foam and no cross meshing lattice in the support structure. A higher quality leather would probably add $20 or so to each seat, so that's simply "out of the question."

The Recaro I installed in my '99 Z28 used a reinforced tarp (in lieu of a wire structure) that made foam extrusion impossible and the foam itself was far more dense. It also used a lot more springs, which were situated around the full perimeter for better weight distribution and more even support.

So that's the difference between a well made seat suspension system and a poor one.

This is a C6 Z06 driver's seat:



This is from an '05 C6 1SB car:

VET4LES

Interesting picture, thanks.

peter pan

Seems it would be a simple fix to run wires across the seat bottom to keep the foam from tearing and do you plan to mod your seat? If so we would love to see the picturers

harddrivin1le

I'm having the lower cushion in my driver's side seat "reconstructed" tomorrow.

My car is an '09 and has 429 miles on it now.

I took it to an upholster on Friday; the foam is already extruding through the large voids between the wires. (I am 5'-11" and weigh about 194 pounds).

He is going to reinforce the mesh with lateral wiring, trash the ragdoll soft OEM foam and install some high density foam. The seats will APPEAR stock when he's done, but they better not feel stock. He said it will take the entire day, so I have to rent a car from Enterprise while the work is being performed.

I offered him $400 in cash as a "motivator." He has an excellent reputation and does a lot of restoration work on high end cars.

I have lower back issues and simply can't tolerate the stock factory seats cushions.

The stock factory cushions compress so much that they lower the lumbar region of the back 1"-2" below the lumbar support in the seat back. The combined result is an orthopedic nightmare.

danl72

peter pan

Thank for letting us know about the lateral wiring he is going to do for you and I will be wanting to do this to my C6 and later to my C5 when I put new covers on that one, I have noticed the support in this area myself and I read through your first thread just stayed out because of the negative posts and I am a little taller and weigh 235ish and have noticed in my first 2k that this area needs help

harddrivin1le

Here's another pic. This is from an '05 C6 equipped with the the then top of the line 1SB interior. 4 rear springs handle most of the load and one can see how the whole suspension system can twist unevenly, relative to the seat's frame. This looks exactly like how the seats feel!

That lower structure is actually referred to as the seat's "suspension," and that is one very poor suspension system. Cover it with some inexpensive, low density foam and it's pretty easy to see why these seats are so unsupportive and uncomfortable.

The suspension system should have springs on all four sides (perhaps 20 springs in total) and should also have wires running laterally and interlaced with the longitudinal wires. Some high density foam could then be placed over that system with no chance of foam extrusion and subsequent breakdown.

The base model Recaro I installed in my '99 Z28 had approximately 20 springs (connecting a heavily reinforced cloth weave in lieu of a wire mesh).

A similar system would probably add $40 to each C6 they sell, so that prevents the, from doing it.

I think the C6 is a great performance value, but it's things like this that are costing GM market share. People want a COMFORTABLE car - especially when it costs $50K +.

tredinger

I'm anxiously awaiting further detail and pics from the work tomorrow.

LS2-Zomb!e

Thank you.

Shortimer

Look forward to seeing photos of the finished product and your comments on how much of an improvement you actually got.

danl72

XCELER8

The Lamborghini seat is not much different if your looking at the frame support. Single vertical lines. Granted they are thicker and the form is a lot denser. Just food for thought.

harddrivin1le

The Lamborghini seat is MUCH different because it's foam is injection-molded, high density foam (as opposed to the soft foam you'd expect to find in a child's toy.) The Lambo's foam is physically hard to the touch and is similar in texture to the "foam in a can" some use to insulate around doors and windows in their homes (once the foam has hardened). The Lambo's seat likely has a layer of soft, high density foam sandwiched between the hard foam (which forms the "shell" of the seat) and the leather upholstery.

That Lambo's hard-formed foam couldn't possibly extrude out through the supporting wires.

AORoads

That's pretty humorous: the guy who installed the Lambo seats is being told what they are, and aren't.

ben dover

Exactly.

XCELER8

Why is that? Not like I asked the guy how dense his foam was before I bought it.

AintQik

I've got lower back issues and a surgury or two to prove it. At 35 I suspect its only going to get worse. I think this may be my next mod. I like the factory seats appearance, but they pretty much blow to sit in. I have just been too lazy to have a look. You've saved me the trouble and offered a solution! Thanks!

Wonder if I can fix that annoying "rocking" while I'm in there?

harddrivin1le

I just got back from the upholsters.

He's going to have my car for two full days, so I had to rent a car from Enterprise.

I learned quite a bit about seat and fabric construction while I was there.

In there present form, these seats simply could not be any worse. GM doesn't even use reinforcement backing (gauze or vinyl) in their leather, which is why GM leather quickly deteriorates. The quality of the leather itself is terrible and it's not properly vat died.

A good seat will use two and sometimes three different foams - in layers. This seat cushion uses just one type of foam (soft, cheap and unsupportive).

The cushion's lower suspension system is simply terrible, for reasons I explained above.

I am having the OEM seats suspension gutted and a new one installed. It will be supported around the full perimeter of the seat's frame.

I am also having thick gage wire supports welded onto the frame, which will support the cushion's side bolsters and make them functional. (Most real side bolsters are wire reinforced.)

The ONLY thing that will be stock in my lower cushion will be the crap OEM leather. I'll probably sell the car right around the time that begins to show serious wear.

Anyone who thinks these seats are "fine," "comfortable," "supportive," "well made," etc. simply doesn't understand seat construction.

harddrivin1le

The foam depicted in that Lambo seat pic is a rigid, high density, injected molded foam and is not in any way comparable to the soft, highly compressible foam used by GM. The Lambo foam cannot extrude through the "wires" because it is hard and essentially acts as a "shell."

Those are facts.

That Lambo foam likely has one or two softer layers on top of the hard foam substrate, the top layer of which is covered with upholstery.

The C6 seats basically couldn't be any poorer in basic construction. That is also fact.

redzone

You answered your own question..........Nobody and I mean nobody has NOT bought a Corvette because of the inferior seats.

I agree with your position wholeheartedly,but unless it effects sales,they aren't gonna change a thing.