Buy now or cry later - Vette on the GM chopping block again?
09-02-2008, 03:13 PM
#1
Race Director
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Buy now or cry later - Vette on the GM chopping block again?
Lutz again questions the future of the Vette due to the CAFE and Kalifornia style carbon requirements.
Courtesy of our friends on GMI News:
http://wardsauto.com/ar/lutz_break_testing_080829/
Courtesy of our friends on GMI News:
http://wardsauto.com/ar/lutz_break_testing_080829/
09-02-2008, 03:19 PM
#2
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
It's a ploy to get more time/money from or for R&D from Feds. Given a couple of years (and they have a multiple of that number), this is a company with engineers who can come up with the first, 300 hp V8 to get 30+ mpg in a regular production sports car that sold more than 20,000 copies per year. And they did it in 1992!
So let's not signal the death of Corvette, no matter who sez it.
So let's not signal the death of Corvette, no matter who sez it.
09-02-2008, 03:21 PM
#3
Team Owner
Have to agree 100%.It's a ploy to get more time/money from or for R&D from Feds. Given a couple of years (and they have a multiple of that number), this is a company with engineers who can come up with the first, 300 hp V8 to get 30+ mpg in a regular production sports car that sold more than 20,000 copies per year. And they did it in 1992!
So let's not signal the death of Corvette, no matter who sez it.
So let's not signal the death of Corvette, no matter who sez it.
09-02-2008, 03:39 PM
#4
Team Owner
Hell Lutz might be gone before the vette.
09-02-2008, 03:55 PM
#6
Le Mans Master
Gotta luv Lutz! He just knows how to hang comments on the media that send a message. To potential Vette owners, he is saying you better buy now cause we might do away with it. To congress he is saying you need to help us like you helped Chrysler or a classic like the Vette will disappear. To the future Volt buyers he is saying it is already a fantastic vehicle so save up your pennies and dimes! I hope he can make it work!
09-02-2008, 03:59 PM
#7
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09-02-2008, 04:03 PM
#8
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Gotta luv Lutz! He just knows how to hang comments on the media that send a message. To potential Vette owners, he is saying you better buy now cause we might do away with it. To congress he is saying you need to help us like you helped Chrysler or a classic like the Vette will disappear. To the future Volt buyers he is saying it is already a fantastic vehicle so save up your pennies and dimes! I hope he can make it work!
"Maximum Bob" knows how to play the press like a drum. Since CAFE deals with corporate fleet "average" mpg, GM's real solution is to sell more economy vehicles - the relatively minimal production numbers of the 'vette have very little influence on the corporate average fuel economy... jmho.
09-02-2008, 04:09 PM
#9
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Thread Starter
I'd agree, but most of the Northeastern states are communist controlled also. They're chomping at the bit to accept whatever "green" standards Kalifornia comes up with.
I agree that Lutz's ploy is for some relief from the crash standards but as obvious is another request for a bailout. The fact is that the bailout will come from the Congress. And government money is always based in politics and comes with strings attached. A green friend and a very low level political insider speculated a whle ago that Rep. Dingell that represents the big 3's home turf would broker a bail-out of Detroit. This bail-out would trade government money for the Big 3 dropping "gas guzzlers" of both car and truck flavor and pusuing high mileage or alternative fueled green vehicles.
And it's fully plausible, sort of like killing 3 birds with one stone. Environmentally unfriendly gas guzzlers would go, the big 3 and their unions would be shored up, and single-payer "socialized medicine" would be introduced to pay their health care benefit liabilities.
I fully suspect that after the death of SUV's and the evil Hummer brand the next stop for the greens is the "Archetypal American Sports Car" such as the Mustang or Corvette.
Rubber band drive cars maybe?
09-02-2008, 04:49 PM
#11
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"Maximum Bob" knows how to play the press like a drum. Since CAFE deals with corporate fleet "average" mpg, GM's real solution is to sell more economy vehicles - the relatively minimal production numbers of the 'vette have very little influence on the corporate average fuel economy... jmho.
09-02-2008, 04:56 PM
#12
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They said the same about the firebird and the Camaro, and they went bub-bye. This would be just another in a series of amazing blunders that GM has decided upon.
So don't be so cavaliar about the vette taking a Hiatus.
Besides the Gov could care less if the vette is around or not?
Hell if Budweiser can go Dutch the vette can go German.
So don't be so cavaliar about the vette taking a Hiatus.
Besides the Gov could care less if the vette is around or not?
Hell if Budweiser can go Dutch the vette can go German.
09-02-2008, 05:12 PM
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
Yes, you're right. And they said that about the Citation, Aurora (oh, that's right, ALLL of Oldsmobile), Allante, Cimarron, Fiero, etc. Cars and models come and go. It's not based on what Bob sez, really.
09-02-2008, 06:25 PM
#15
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As a journalist who has covered Bob Lutz for years, he's quite good at the bombastic quote designed to reflect whatever political message he wants to send.
Regards the Vette, the latest issue of Automotive News, the industry newspaper, evaluated a lot of future GM products and lists the next gen Vette as appearing late in 2012 as a 2013 model. It says the Vette will remain front-engine, though no mention of how big or powerful that engine might be.
Regards the Vette, the latest issue of Automotive News, the industry newspaper, evaluated a lot of future GM products and lists the next gen Vette as appearing late in 2012 as a 2013 model. It says the Vette will remain front-engine, though no mention of how big or powerful that engine might be.
09-02-2008, 06:46 PM
#16
Burning Brakes
It's a ploy to get more time/money from or for R&D from Feds. Given a couple of years (and they have a multiple of that number), this is a company with engineers who can come up with the first, 300 hp V8 to get 30+ mpg in a regular production sports car that sold more than 20,000 copies per year. And they did it in 1992! 
So let's not signal the death of Corvette, no matter who sez it.
So let's not signal the death of Corvette, no matter who sez it.
That 30MPG sure wasn't a C.A.F.E. combined rating. Today only the Prius and hybrid Civic make the 35MPG COMBINED C.A.F.E. ratings.I can get over 30 on the highway in sixth gear on my C6, but, reality says 14MPG in strictly in town driving.
GM's sports car will likely become the Soltice and Sky models.
If Obama is elected (or any Dem for that matter to the White House) that 35MPG is surely to rise. Pay attention when you vote this November.
09-02-2008, 06:46 PM
#17
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Well it looks like we vette owners won't have to worry about some big bad Camero! Don't look like an super HP model is going to be produced.. period. As for GM selling the Corvette brand I think it's very possible. It would bring much needed cash and the BG plant is more or less self contained. Unless the car could still be sold in the 50 to 70 grand range I believe sales would plummet. There were some very interesting comments about sales numbers and CAFE standards. If I were GM I'd simply stop selling them in CA.... Why reinvent the wheel for 1 state that has ridiculous requirements....
“I get letters from people saying they heard we were going to add a supercharged 600-hp V-8 to the Camaro lineup, and I write back saying ‘Sorry, with new (corporate average fuel economy) standards (for 2020), we aren’t going to do it.”
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“Setting lower CO2 limits would equal setting CAFE at 43 mpg (5.5 L/100 km),” Lutz says. “This is why the sale of the Dodge Viper by Chrysler makes sense, because anyone selling fewer than 50,000 vehicles annually would be exempt (from fuel-economy requirements).
“So if someone else bought Viper, they could sell to capacity, but Chrysler couldn’t. This is why we are concerned about Corvette.
“The reason California set the exemption for less than 50,000 units is that it would mean the Hollywood folks could keep driving their Lamborghinis and Ferraris.”
Viper on Block Sign of Trend?
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Saturn Revitalization Working, Defiant Brand Chief Insists; Dealerships Get New Look
CO2 Showdown With California
The new minimum CAFE standard of 35 mpg (6.7 L/100 km) in 2020 and additional pressure from California and 15 other states to limit carbon dioxide is part of what may force Chrysler LLC to jettison its Viper high-performance model. Chrysler said this week it was examining options for its Viper business, including a sale.
“Setting lower CO2 limits would equal setting CAFE at 43 mpg (5.5 L/100 km),” Lutz says. “This is why the sale of the Dodge Viper by Chrysler makes sense, because anyone selling fewer than 50,000 vehicles annually would be exempt (from fuel-economy requirements).
“So if someone else bought Viper, they could sell to capacity, but Chrysler couldn’t. This is why we are concerned about Corvette.
“The reason California set the exemption for less than 50,000 units is that it would mean the Hollywood folks could keep driving their Lamborghinis and Ferraris.”
09-02-2008, 07:04 PM
#20
Burning Brakes
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It's a ploy to get more time/money from or for R&D from Feds. Given a couple of years (and they have a multiple of that number), this is a company with engineers who can come up with the first, 300 hp V8 to get 30+ mpg in a regular production sports car that sold more than 20,000 copies per year. And they did it in 1992!
So let's not signal the death of Corvette, no matter who sez it.
So let's not signal the death of Corvette, no matter who sez it.
These are the same engineers that come out with the 400 HP and get 27 MPG. I don't think GM is going to drop or get rid of the Corvette when all they need is a handful of MPG to meet the new standards. The Corvette is an American Icon. 