08 Quality Control?
11-28-2007, 03:43 AM
#21
16 Vettes and counting…..
Based on personal experience with many brands over the years, I really can't complain about GM. My Corvettes have been some of the most reliable of all my vehicles, and the C6's are phenomenal. My DD is a 425 HP Dodge Magnum, and after 11,000 miles, the car has been perfect. Say what you will about American cars, but I've been very pleased with the ones I've owned in the past five years or so. Before that, not so happy, except for the Vettes. I think American cars are getting consistently better....flame me if you want, but that's been my experience.
I've had a 300ZXTT, a Supra TT and a 350Z. All were okay, but not any better than my C5's and not nearly as good as my C6's. My buddy has a brand new 911 S4 and it rattles like an early C4 Corvette.
It seems the more I spend, the worse the car. My 911 turbo was re-purchased by Porsche for being a lemon, and my wife's Audi A8 has been a total POS, always in the shop....of course they give her a new Audi to drive every time it's in, so I can't complain about their service.
I'm considering purchasing an Aston Martin Vantage V8 (mainly because I'm in love with the design), but for the money the performance is pathetic, especially when compared to a Z06 or having Lingenfelter massage my '07. For my wants in a sports car, I really have no other reasonable choice than the Corvette. I've yet to be given any major reason to b!tch about quality....and I bought my first Vette over 20 years ago. Compared with the other cars available at the time I owned them, the Vettes were bargains...and still are.
I've had a 300ZXTT, a Supra TT and a 350Z. All were okay, but not any better than my C5's and not nearly as good as my C6's. My buddy has a brand new 911 S4 and it rattles like an early C4 Corvette.
It seems the more I spend, the worse the car. My 911 turbo was re-purchased by Porsche for being a lemon, and my wife's Audi A8 has been a total POS, always in the shop....of course they give her a new Audi to drive every time it's in, so I can't complain about their service.
I'm considering purchasing an Aston Martin Vantage V8 (mainly because I'm in love with the design), but for the money the performance is pathetic, especially when compared to a Z06 or having Lingenfelter massage my '07. For my wants in a sports car, I really have no other reasonable choice than the Corvette. I've yet to be given any major reason to b!tch about quality....and I bought my first Vette over 20 years ago. Compared with the other cars available at the time I owned them, the Vettes were bargains...and still are.
Last edited by VETTE-NV; 11-28-2007 at 03:50 AM.
11-28-2007, 07:12 AM
#22
Burning Brakes
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Its nothing new for Corvette. I have owned 20 of them. I think its more GM in general. They have really slipped hard.I used to be a GM hater, but I have to admit that GM's quality improvement in the last 5-7 years has been pretty impressive. I hate to see folks perpetuating out of date perceptions and/or myths, rather than looking at the actual facts.
11-28-2007, 07:32 AM
#23
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
My background is in process engineering and quality control in high tech electronics and high precision mechanical assemblies including some considerable time doing statistical analysis and research. Thus my comments:
Information about defects we get on this or any forum may be interesting, informative, and useful. However, it can't be applied to all C6s of any given year. This is because there is no consistent random sampling methodology used to gather the reports.
Given the shortcoming defect reports could be, in fact, isolated and be present on only a very few cars. However, it's just as likely that reports of defects point to lots of defective cars....or anywhere in between these two extremes. There is simply no way to know whether there are few or many such defects among ALL C6s.
The manufacturer alone would know the true extent of defects among all the cars produced from warranty reports. I am sure that this information is "mined" thoroughly by all car manufacturers.
Actually, given the greater interest and knowledge of owners who participate in sites like this one, it is possible that defects are actually OVER reported here. I use defect information heard here as interesting but basically unknown in extent. Clearly, some reported defects are a big deal and REAL such as the flying roof.
But, whether failing valve springs on the LS7 are isolated events or common is something that I don't think can be determined from forum reports. They have actually taken place but how often is unknown. Only GM knows for sure.
Plus, you know, the general kind of defects that were in the 05s or 06s or 07s are similar or identical to those being reported in 08s. Some years have novel problems but mostly I think things like clutch issues and rear end clutch pack problems just keep recurring. This, in itself, is worrisome since it indicates a potential unwillingness on the part of the mfg. to finally fix some things.
just my two cents worth
all cars have bugs to be worked out, I think the vette is pretty good but no more perfect than any other car or complex machine can be.....it's all statistics. No matter how hard you try in manufacturing there is always a normal distribution around the quality target....and that means there will always be defects. Today, with the internet , there is just a huge amount of communication among owners than in the past....and nearly real time communication at that.
In other words, random sample or not, we know a lot more today about what's up with the cars than ever in the past.
Information about defects we get on this or any forum may be interesting, informative, and useful. However, it can't be applied to all C6s of any given year. This is because there is no consistent random sampling methodology used to gather the reports.
Given the shortcoming defect reports could be, in fact, isolated and be present on only a very few cars. However, it's just as likely that reports of defects point to lots of defective cars....or anywhere in between these two extremes. There is simply no way to know whether there are few or many such defects among ALL C6s.
The manufacturer alone would know the true extent of defects among all the cars produced from warranty reports. I am sure that this information is "mined" thoroughly by all car manufacturers.
Actually, given the greater interest and knowledge of owners who participate in sites like this one, it is possible that defects are actually OVER reported here. I use defect information heard here as interesting but basically unknown in extent. Clearly, some reported defects are a big deal and REAL such as the flying roof.
But, whether failing valve springs on the LS7 are isolated events or common is something that I don't think can be determined from forum reports. They have actually taken place but how often is unknown. Only GM knows for sure.
Plus, you know, the general kind of defects that were in the 05s or 06s or 07s are similar or identical to those being reported in 08s. Some years have novel problems but mostly I think things like clutch issues and rear end clutch pack problems just keep recurring. This, in itself, is worrisome since it indicates a potential unwillingness on the part of the mfg. to finally fix some things.
just my two cents worth
all cars have bugs to be worked out, I think the vette is pretty good but no more perfect than any other car or complex machine can be.....it's all statistics. No matter how hard you try in manufacturing there is always a normal distribution around the quality target....and that means there will always be defects. Today, with the internet , there is just a huge amount of communication among owners than in the past....and nearly real time communication at that.
In other words, random sample or not, we know a lot more today about what's up with the cars than ever in the past.
And to finish that last sentence with what started: but there may be no correlation between what we know and read about (as well as experience) on the Forum, and a general increase in defects.
One of the few conclusions that can be drawn is from the statement, "...Some years have novel problems but mostly I think things like clutch issues and rear end clutch pack problems just keep recurring. This, in itself, is worrisome since it indicates a potential unwillingness on the part of the mfg. to finally fix some things. ..."
And this last statement is something that shopdog has also touched on in other posts.
11-28-2007, 07:49 AM
#25
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Doesn't seem any higher than the past couple years I've been on the list (and I'd be senstive to it, as I have an '08). There have certainly been more than the usual number of non-'08 posters trying to make something out of nothing, continually crying "junk!", but the facts don't seem to be supporting the (unsupported) assertions.
FWIW, zero defects on my 1 mo. old 'vert.
FWIW, zero defects on my 1 mo. old 'vert.
Leon Resnick
11-28-2007, 08:06 AM
#26
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'08 Quality
I have ordered 6 new Corvettes since 2001. The first five were zero, or at most one minor defect. Three have been raced on road courses with no issues.
However..........the last (2008) has made it 105 miles and spent 29 days on the dealer's lift with issues from the flywheel to the rear end/trans. fortunately the dealer and GM are stepping up to the plate and replacing the car. But the fact remains that it never should have been shipped from Bowling Green. It is interesting too that this unit went directly from production to shipping - no 2 week quality hold!
However..........the last (2008) has made it 105 miles and spent 29 days on the dealer's lift with issues from the flywheel to the rear end/trans. fortunately the dealer and GM are stepping up to the plate and replacing the car. But the fact remains that it never should have been shipped from Bowling Green. It is interesting too that this unit went directly from production to shipping - no 2 week quality hold!
11-28-2007, 08:28 AM
#27
Le Mans Master
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Complexity has also increased which seems to cause some problems mostly from an operating standpoint.
Like dead batteries because something is easily left on or not in gear..
Overall... These cars are very reliable and get better with age.. from my experiences..
11-28-2007, 08:35 AM
#29
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GM has done a great job in catching up and producing products that now compete with some of the best out there. How soon we all forget the cars of the 70's an 80's.. and you say you owned 20 of them... One would think even you would notice the difference.. or were they really only matchbox cars
11-28-2007, 08:37 AM
#30
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St. Jude Donor '07
Problems generally occur quickly.
08 is the current model year.
Therefore, problems are being reported on 08s.
Last year at this time it was 07s.
The year before 06s.
Nothing special. I haven't seen that many complaint posts. If there were major problems, there would be a flood of problem posts.
Although I do hear that the gas tanks explode on ALL of them. You see I read a thread about one tank, which means they're all bad, doesn't it? Of course, the original poster seems to have disappeared (possibly embarrassed to admit that he DID run over something and started a needlessly overdramatic thread).
08 is the current model year.
Therefore, problems are being reported on 08s.
Last year at this time it was 07s.
The year before 06s.
Nothing special. I haven't seen that many complaint posts. If there were major problems, there would be a flood of problem posts.
Although I do hear that the gas tanks explode on ALL of them. You see I read a thread about one tank, which means they're all bad, doesn't it? Of course, the original poster seems to have disappeared (possibly embarrassed to admit that he DID run over something and started a needlessly overdramatic thread).
11-28-2007, 08:48 AM
#31
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St. Jude Donor '15
"In honor of jpee"
... Lexus is a very high quality, trouble free vehicle, and is a terrific car if you like to drive a refrigerator on wheels. Have owned 3 including the SC430. Great for people who want to get from point A to Point be and could care less about the driving experience. But they just don't break. With this said I expect a lot of negative comments. s a lot of electronic problems so this car is not the poster boy for high quality trouble free motoring. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. ...
Leon Resnick
Leon Resnick
11-28-2007, 10:41 AM
#32
Le Mans Master
11-28-2007, 10:50 AM
#35
Burning Brakes
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Doesn't seem any higher than the past couple years I've been on the list (and I'd be senstive to it, as I have an '08). There have certainly been more than the usual number of non-'08 posters trying to make something out of nothing, continually crying "junk!", but the facts don't seem to be supporting the (unsupported) assertions.
FWIW, zero defects on my 1 mo. old 'vert.
FWIW, zero defects on my 1 mo. old 'vert.
I agree. The sky is not falling, GM is not going under and my 05 and my 08 have been nothing but a blast to own,
To all the nay sayers, go suck a pickle.
11-28-2007, 01:04 PM
#36
Melting Slicks
11-28-2007, 01:09 PM
#37
Burning Brakes
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I have ordered 6 new Corvettes since 2001. The first five were zero, or at most one minor defect. Three have been raced on road courses with no issues.
However..........the last (2008) has made it 105 miles and spent 29 days on the dealer's lift with issues from the flywheel to the rear end/trans. fortunately the dealer and GM are stepping up to the plate and replacing the car. But the fact remains that it never should have been shipped from Bowling Green. It is interesting too that this unit went directly from production to shipping - no 2 week quality hold!
However..........the last (2008) has made it 105 miles and spent 29 days on the dealer's lift with issues from the flywheel to the rear end/trans. fortunately the dealer and GM are stepping up to the plate and replacing the car. But the fact remains that it never should have been shipped from Bowling Green. It is interesting too that this unit went directly from production to shipping - no 2 week quality hold!
11-28-2007, 01:23 PM
#38
Drifting
Quality Control
I have to get in on this one because I am probably the OLDEST MEMBER of the FORUM and go back to 1965 when I purchased my First Corvette (Satin Silver for $4200.00.).....The Quality overall has changed for the Better over the Years---but as has been Mentioned every Year Seems to have its Own Problems-----In 1965 It was Squeaky Disc Brakes, in 1990 for instance it was White Convertibles that would turn Yellow on the Rear Panels, and the Front Facia---I could go on and on-----BUT OVERALL --they get Better each and every Year...You guys have no idea what it was like in the Early Years they rode like Trucks, but thats what all Sports Cars really was meant to be.......Now People want Comfort and Convenience and the Philosophy of what Constitutes a True Sports Car has changed....I wish we could go back to those Early Years and do away with The Creature Comforts....Bring back the no A/c, the Zippered Windows, the Split Windows etc etc........Meanwhile I am ordering a 2008 ZO6 with ALL those CREATURE COMFORTS.....to keep my Convertible Company....
11-28-2007, 02:23 PM
#39
16 Vettes and counting…..
And this is based on what? Your spotted wheels and creaking top? Give me a break..
GM has done a great job in catching up and producing products that now compete with some of the best out there. How soon we all forget the cars of the 70's an 80's.. and you say you owned 20 of them... One would think even you would notice the difference.. or were they really only matchbox cars
GM has done a great job in catching up and producing products that now compete with some of the best out there. How soon we all forget the cars of the 70's an 80's.. and you say you owned 20 of them... One would think even you would notice the difference.. or were they really only matchbox cars
11-28-2007, 02:41 PM
#40
Race Director
I mentioned this in the past and everybody was ready to throw me under the train.Are these quality issues to be expected on a $50k + car?Most of the comments I heard that these quality issues were to be expected and that basically I was making something out of nothing.Well,are there only a handful of people that think these problems are an issue?Lets see you guys come and put a positive spin on this one.Most of the comments about my SNIVILING in regards to quality issuse came from people that most likely never had any problems.