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Old 10-20-2006, 08:12 PM   #1
Runge_Kutta
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Location: East Bay CA
Default 2008 - Tremec TR-6060 Manual transmission

Well, a few people have mentioned this. The 2008 C6 will use the
Tremec TR-6060 M6 transmission rather than the T56. here's the Tremec
light-duty manual transmission line up;

* Light-duty transmissions
** Tremec T-5 transmission
** Tremec T-45 transmission
** Tremec TK0 transmission
** Tremec TR-3550 transmission
** Tremec T-56 transmission
** Tremec TR-3450 transmission
** Tremec TR-3650 transmission
** Tremec TR-4050 transmission
** Tremec TR-6060 transmission

You might want to download this before it gets pulled off the web.

http://www.conacyt.mx/Estimulosfisca...S3A-2005-3.pdf

I see a 650 lbs*ft torque rating.

======================================== =====
Then there is the LS3:

OK, let's look at the two different 3V head designs that use
a single internal camshaft. I am reasonably sure that the LS3
will use a variation of what is shown in patent 6505589 but
I wonder what the valvetrain will look like. From Figs. 1
and 2 in 6505589, you can see that the head is designed
for direct injection from the top of the combustion chamber.
Patent 6505591 details an intricate way to simultaneously
actuate the exhaust valves while maintaining space for
the DI at the top of the combustion chamber. Patent
6668546, Fig. 5, shows the combustion chamber of both
the single and dual internal camshaft designs from a
ways back.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6505589.pdf (DI port is #68 in drawings)
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6505591.pdf
http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6668546.pdf (Look at Figure 5)

Here's the new valvetrain. As you can see, there is no longer
any place to put the central injection DI injectors.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/6962134.pdf

This could mean many things. First, that no 3V head will
get central injection. It could also mean that there will
be a DI version and a non DI version of the heads. Lastly,
GM could have decided to abandon low pressure, air assisted
DI for high pressure side injection.

Someone needs to spill the beans here ...
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Old 10-20-2006, 08:20 PM   #2
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Old 10-20-2006, 11:42 PM   #3
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Dude ... you are one great detective ...
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Old 10-21-2006, 01:28 AM   #4
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Thanks for the research and a great post!!!!
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Old 10-21-2006, 01:46 AM   #5
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Great info. Much thanks.
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Old 10-21-2006, 02:06 AM   #6
Runge_Kutta
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Scroll down 30%

http://www.mustang50magazine.com/fea...nny_specs.html
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Old 10-21-2006, 02:53 AM   #7
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ye ha

makes me glad that I have my sights set on an '08. Better manual trans by far in all respects by the look of it . Who knows on the engine I understand it's already in some GM suvs like Tahoe so the C6 won't be the first.

Now if they could just come up with a better clutch to pair up with this MUCH better transmission. So the GT 500 has this trans NOW? Let's see, that means the GT 500 has a better trans than the C6 I believe.

thanks for the info I am getting excited-the C6 is maturing

ps...if this proves to be true imagine the push that will be on next year to move out the 07s with manual transmissions. The difference might be greater than that of the 4 speed auto vs the 6 speed auto. Who would want a C6 with a T56 in the 07 with the 08 just around the corner?

Last edited by OregonC6; 10-21-2006 at 02:58 AM.
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Old 10-22-2006, 12:49 PM   #8
Runge_Kutta
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Well, as long as this thread is talking about 2008, let's
think about something besides the LS3 and TR-6060.

The aluminum frame will have been in production for two years
by the time the 2008's roll out. Spreading the aluminum frame
across the line-up would be simple and low risk. If there is
a slight stiffness shortfall, they could add back the 10kg
needed to match the stiffness of the steel frame. Otherwise
they could insert internal stiffeners into the frame.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050279049.pdf

Doing this, though, would really take the exclusivity from the
Z06. However, it is not clear what the fate of the "Z06" is in
2008.

The Z06 introduced the magnesium front crossmember to the C6.
Minimally, it would be easy to move this across the line-up. Also,
they could easily switch the rear crossmember to magnesium.

The front license plate attachment could certainly use a bit
of re-engineering.

Mileage. The base car will be moving from a 6.0L to a 6.2L
engine and from a 2V to 3V valvetrain. That can't help mileage
any. There are two obvious cures for this disease. Decrease vehicle
mass and/or increase engine thermal efficiency. I would translate
that into aluminum frame and/or direct injection.

OK, what about this new blue? The old "Mulsanne Blue" looks
like Nassau Blue to me. Here are some of the older blue colors.
There are more but I've lost my motivation here!


http://images.google.com/images?q=co...=Search+Images

http://images.google.com/images?svnu...22&btnG=Search

http://images.google.com/images?svnu...22&btnG=Search

http://images.google.com/images?svnu...22&btnG=Search

http://images.google.com/images?svnu...22&btnG=Search

http://images.google.com/images?svnu...22&btnG=Search

http://images.google.com/images?svnu...22&btnG=Search

http://images.google.com/images?svnu...22&btnG=Search

http://images.google.com/images?svnu...22&btnG=Search

http://images.google.com/images?svnu...22&btnG=Search
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Old 10-22-2006, 03:59 PM   #9
C6~Missle
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OregonC6
ye ha

makes me glad that I have my sights set on an '08. Better manual trans by far in all respects by the look of it . Who knows on the engine I understand it's already in some GM suvs like Tahoe so the C6 won't be the first.

Now if they could just come up with a better clutch to pair up with this MUCH better transmission. So the GT 500 has this trans NOW? Let's see, that means the GT 500 has a better trans than the C6 I believe.

thanks for the info I am getting excited-the C6 is maturing

ps...if this proves to be true imagine the push that will be on next year to move out the 07s with manual transmissions. The difference might be greater than that of the 4 speed auto vs the 6 speed auto. Who would want a C6 with a T56 in the 07 with the 08 just around the corner?
What a stupid post. Whats wrong with the current T56? It's rated and handles the current power and more with no problems? Why is the new one "much better". Please enlighten us with your technical knowledge on this. Most complaints are about the shifter, not the tansmission.
So many 05-07 owners on here that love their rides, have had no problems and with awesome performance. Yet you manage to put that down and compare it to a rumour about a new model year.
Whatever...
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Old 10-22-2006, 09:59 PM   #10
30YR W8T
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runge_Kutta
Great info, it makes you wonder based on the article if the plan is to offer this unit as a package with new clutch where you could change up to this trans in current model cars. If that is the case then all I will needs is someone to come up with a better rear for my 05 and I will be set.
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Old 10-22-2006, 10:22 PM   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runge_Kutta
Well, as long as this thread is talking about 2008, let's
think about something besides the LS3 and TR-6060.

The aluminum frame will have been in production for two years
by the time the 2008's roll out. Spreading the aluminum frame
across the line-up would be simple and low risk. If there is
a slight stiffness shortfall, they could add back the 10kg
needed to match the stiffness of the steel frame. Otherwise
they could insert internal stiffeners into the frame.

http://www.freepatentsonline.com/20050279049.pdf

Doing this, though, would really take the exclusivity from the
Z06. However, it is not clear what the fate of the "Z06" is in
Well if Chevy comes out with the "Sting Ray", or "Blue Devil" or whatever they choose to call it, won't that take the exclusivity away from the Z06 anyway ?
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Old 10-23-2006, 03:08 PM   #12
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I posted this months ago! In the Vette forum and in the Camaro forum.

But only 2 or 3 people would believe me? There will be a new red and a new blue coming out also!
I've driven the GT 500 with the T-6060 and it's light years ahead of the T-56.

Tim

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1487266
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1510395&page=2
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Old 10-23-2006, 09:00 PM   #13
Runge_Kutta
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I stated in my first sentence that the TR-6060 comments have
been said before. What I offered that is new is some confirmation
by one of the principals; Tremec. There are countless unsubstatiated
comments made on this forum. Confirmation by a principal is the only
way that the general audience has to know what's real and what isn't.

As to the LS3, I've read virtually every number from 410 hp through
450 hp, by increments of 5 hp - and then some. How are we supposed
to know if your 430-440hp is right? There was a recent post that the
Saleen folks say the engine has 450hp.

Is the LS3 a direct or port injection engine?
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Old 10-25-2006, 08:59 PM   #14
need-for-speed
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 08 Vett
I posted this months ago! In the Vette forum and in the Camaro forum.

But only 2 or 3 people would believe me? There will be a new red and a new blue coming out also!
I've driven the GT 500 with the T-6060 and it's light years ahead of the T-56.

Tim

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1487266
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show...1510395&page=2

Quote:
Originally Posted by Runge_Kutta
I stated in my first sentence that the TR-6060 comments have
been said before. What I offered that is new is some confirmation
by one of the principals; Tremec. There are countless unsubstatiated
comments made on this forum. Confirmation by a principal is the only
way that the general audience has to know what's real and what isn't.

As to the LS3, I've read virtually every number from 410 hp through
450 hp, by increments of 5 hp - and then some. How are we supposed
to know if your 430-440hp is right? There was a recent post that the
Saleen folks say the engine has 450hp.

Is the LS3 a direct or port injection engine?
Now Now. Kudos to BOTH of you. First to 08 Vette because he PM'd me about the TR6060 almost 2 mos ago. And a tip of the hat to Runge because he provided a very insighful link which give credence to 08's info (and hopefully his HP predictions).



So Runge, how firm is the likelyhood of a 3V head on the LS3? I don't think we're going to see direct injection just yet.
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Old 10-25-2006, 09:07 PM   #15
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Great info as usual.
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Old 10-25-2006, 10:00 PM   #16
OregonC6
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Default Hey, study the technical specs and compare the transmissions yourself

Quote:
Originally Posted by C5~Missle
What a stupid post. Whats wrong with the current T56? It's rated and handles the current power and more with no problems? Why is the new one "much better". Please enlighten us with your technical knowledge on this. Most complaints are about the shifter, not the tansmission.
So many 05-07 owners on here that love their rides, have had no problems and with awesome performance. Yet you manage to put that down and compare it to a rumour about a new model year.
Whatever...
I read the technical specs on the 6060. It seems clearly superior. The T56 is adequate yes. Now you find and read the technical specs and decide for yourself. Evolution of the Corvette is a given. As inspector Callahan would say, 'You have to ask yourself....why do all these other high performance cars use the 6060?' What is it that they know?

I hope that if this new trans goes into the 08 GM decides to upgrade the clutch. Hey, I love the C6. I don't love the feel of the clutch though and others have reported serious problems.

Yes, the shifter could be improved too. I still love the C6. My 05 runs just fine too. The main reason I did not and will not buy an 07 is that I want the roof problem to be fixed and PROVEN to be fixed-not just said to be fixed. Now I find out the major upgrades of trans and engine may be in the works for 08 and I am happy.

Read the technical specs and compare the transmissions. Decide for yourself if the 6060 is superior to the T56 and by how much or not at all. You are a smart guy so study the details.

By the way, there does not have to be anything 'wrong' with the current trans or anything else on the car for it to be improved upon. There is nothing wrong with the steel frame but I'd sure go for the Z06 aluminum frame in the base car and would consider it much better. Same for the brakes. Nothing wrong with the base brakes but Z51 is better right? Nothing wrong with Z51 brakes but Z06 is MUCH better right? Nothing wrong with the T56 but .....now it's your turn to study the specs and decide for yourself.

I happen to think it is clearly better and all I know is what I've read and studied. It's self education about something I knew nothing about before. I tend to do that a lot. Like, hey, I don't know much about this so I'll research it and form an educated opinion. Just like that.

what the heck seems a simple approach to me so now you do the same....

all IMO, if your opinions differ that is just fine. You may be right I may be wrong. If I am wrong I will do penance and repent mightily. I promise.
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Old 10-26-2006, 04:36 AM   #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Runge_Kutta
Mileage. The base car will be moving from a 6.0L to a 6.2L
engine and from a 2V to 3V valvetrain. That can't help mileage
any. There are two obvious cures for this disease. Decrease vehicle
mass and/or increase engine thermal efficiency. I would translate
that into aluminum frame and/or direct injection.

The LS3 is supposed to have VVT for emissions and AFM/DOD for gas mileage just like the new Camaro. I still think the 2V L92 heads will be used instead of those 3V heads which could show up on the C7 in 2012. The L92 heads are pretty cheap and are being used in the GM trucks such as the VortechMax 6.0L (L76) and in the Denali line and the Escalades, so GM is already making alot of these new rectangular port heads (L92) based off the LS7 heads. Also GM has a L76/L92 car intake that is supposed to be released from GM Performance Parts any time now, already available in Australia, for the L92 heads which means GM plans to put the heads into cars in the future.

So why would GM introduce a more expensive, more parts to break, and unproven 3V head in a mid-cycle Corvette?

I think Direct Injection won't be available either until the C7.

The ZO6 will still be around with a LS7 with (maybe) a slight bump in hp for '08.

Last edited by Cobraeater; 10-26-2006 at 04:45 AM.
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Old 10-26-2006, 08:36 AM   #18
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Will new/better mean better performance as in lower ET's or just a higher HP/TQ capacity????

Tom
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:10 AM   #19
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Thanks, guys, for the interesting research and comments. I love my OLD 2006 C6, but I always look forward to the refinements that come with new model years. It's part of the fun.

Jeep
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Old 10-26-2006, 10:26 AM   #20
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So, who here would turn down a 1967 427 Corvette in showroom condition, if it happened to appear under your (Late December Holiday Season Celebration) tree ? ? ?


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Old 10-26-2006, 10:26 AM
 
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