03 SVT vs. C6
11-16-2005, 07:27 AM
#102
Safety Car
This is getting old now, and I just am stating facts:
10hp less is not true, Cobras routinely make 370rwhp from the factory compared to the C6 manual which makes 350rwhp. The Cobra was underrated.
For the guy who said a C6 auto will only run 13.5@103, I have not had mine to the track yet, but it will easily run high 12s@108-112. I've had enough 12 second cars to know one when I drive one.
LAST, BUT NOT LEAST - This is probably what sums up alot of your feelings about these other cars:
********* With money you can make any piece of sh-t fast,
but
Then all you have is a fast piece of sh-t*******************
With that said I LOVE my Cobra, I like my Vette, and isn't great that we have all these GREAT cars to argue about - we all should be thankful
YES - I an an ODD DUCK!!!
Howard
10hp less is not true, Cobras routinely make 370rwhp from the factory compared to the C6 manual which makes 350rwhp. The Cobra was underrated.
For the guy who said a C6 auto will only run 13.5@103, I have not had mine to the track yet, but it will easily run high 12s@108-112. I've had enough 12 second cars to know one when I drive one.
LAST, BUT NOT LEAST - This is probably what sums up alot of your feelings about these other cars:
********* With money you can make any piece of sh-t fast,
but
Then all you have is a fast piece of sh-t*******************
With that said I LOVE my Cobra, I like my Vette, and isn't great that we have all these GREAT cars to argue about - we all should be thankful
YES - I an an ODD DUCK!!!
Howard
11-16-2005, 08:32 AM
#103
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by crabman
I would suggest you have some slight clue before you post. You have no idea what your talking about regarding diesel trucks and the goings on in the performance arena with them. You would never have posted this if you know how utterly wrong you were. It was not my intention however to suggest that they should be compared to a sports car. Rather that when only looking at one aspect of a vehicles performance you lose sight of the bigger picture. If you want to look at which car is "better" you have to look at the car as a whole. That was my point. The truck was an example to try and highlight that point. It was my feeling as I posted that some were not giving the whole package objective consideration. Hopefully I have been more clear this time.
A couple of weeks ago when I was at Englishtown raceway there was a rather large diesel truck that made two 12.90 passes down the track
Once again Mustangs vs Corvettes = apples to pears
And may I also add, I am still waiting for one of you guys to post a 12.30 bone stock ET
DrRichie, Z51 .... 12.42 @ 113.9
Jschindler, Z51 .... 12.49 @ 114.9
are still number 1 and 2 in the bone stock 1/4 mile challenge. Enough with being keyboard racers, get to the track!
Last edited by Tommy D; 11-16-2005 at 08:43 AM.
11-16-2005, 08:43 AM
#104
Burning Brakes
Member Since: Aug 2001
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Originally Posted by o0 zeno 0o
Faster than what? A modded cobra? Have you been reading the thread? We're compairing the stock C6, evidently, to a variable HP cobra (the numbers tend to keep going up, and evidently this car can do 11's with $5 worth of mods. Just add ducktape, lean forward to get more aerodynamic, and stand up to get the weight of the wheels).
His facts are plainly stated. The corvette handles better, for instance. More people will stop and stare at a corvette. And his responce was to the "points" comparison that was pretty much an argument that the cobra had the vette beat in the value, or "bang for the buck" area.
His facts are plainly stated. The corvette handles better, for instance. More people will stop and stare at a corvette. And his responce was to the "points" comparison that was pretty much an argument that the cobra had the vette beat in the value, or "bang for the buck" area.
Here, I found your pic from your middle school year book. Thought it would be a nice addition from your avatar.
11-16-2005, 10:17 AM
#105
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by Barely Legal
WTF is compairing? This thread is all over the place and some people would argue with a brick wall.
Here, I found your pic from your middle school year book. Thought it would be a nice addition from your avatar.
Here, I found your pic from your middle school year book. Thought it would be a nice addition from your avatar.
11-16-2005, 04:41 PM
#106
Heel & Toe
Member Since: Nov 2005
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First I would like to say hi guys - first post here
Well as a person who worked as an engineer in the auto industry, am I allowed to chime in, and debunk more than a couple of myths that are circulating??? 
I have a very good friend of mine who owns a 2004 6.0l PSD (PowerStroke Diesel) F250 - with the slowest (in a drag racing sense) 3.73 rear gears.
He is capable of getting consistent 12.8s 1/4 miles with nothing more than a customizable tuner (SCT if you are interested) and a turbo back exhaust - that is less than $1000 .
Thats before things like twin (or even triple) turbos are added or water, methanol, propane and nitrous injection...
A GM Duramax would be similar.
A Dodge Ram is capable of even more with nothing more than a tuner.
I am not overly familiar with what a Corvette will run in terms of a 1/4 mile time, but that has to be darn close to (or prehaps even better than a) stock vehicle or a vehicle with $1000 of modifications.
One thing I have to say is sadly lacking in this discussion is a proper understanding of how a diesel operates.
You have many fundamental advantages of a diesel engine.
1. The engine block, diesel engine blocks are capable of much greater things just with a stock engine block - there are people out there running in excess of 100PSI (not a misprint) of boost on the stock engine block.
2. Tuning, fundamentally all that is required to improve a diesels performance is FUEL, and lots of it. Diesels don't follow the stoichiometric 14.7:1 ratio that gas engines have to. They don't restrict airflow to control engine performance, they control fuel flow. So if increased power is what you want, just increase the fuel flow, that is why so much performance can be gained so cheaply - just with a tuner.
3. Efficiency, not only does a diesel engine work on the diesel thermodynamic cycle (as opposed to the Otto cycle for gas engines), which gives it a theoretical maximum efficiency of 63.2% (52.3% for the Otto cycle), it is also capable of "lean burning" as mentioned above. So, for a given amount of fuel injected - more power can be extracted.
4. Injection of Nitrous actually reduces Cylinder temps in a diesel, as opposed to a gas engine, where it increases it. It means you can inject it in far greater quantities, and not be remotely concerned about the cylinders being evaporated.
5. Compression Ignition - means you don't have to worry about tuning ignition (or even providing ancillary power for it)
6. Fuel injected at TDC, you don't have to worry about pinging, or running on a high performance fuel. Where on a gas engined vehicle with a turbocharger or a supercharger it is constant comprimise - to run more boost you have to lower the compression ratio to prevent pre ignition (and its associated problems). You can run 150PSI with a 18:1 CR if you want (people do...), on fuel purchased at your local truck stop.
7. Drivability - most significant modifications to gas engines reduce thier drivability, and subsequently they become exclusive "drag-racers". Diesels have the advantage that performance enhancing modifications IMPROVE thier lower end and mid range torque significantly, meaning not only can they still be used as a daily driver, they are better at it.
8. Biodiesel - Diesel engines are capable of running off homemade diesel made in your fryer - which in many ways is far superior to pump diesel (higher Cetane values)
So you can, if you want, have your diesel engine with 100+PSI and a CR of 18:1, running off homemade fuel you made pretty much for free, making high 10s passes and still getting 14mpg towing your 10k trailer.
I can see you asking a couple of questions,
Why bother with making a diesel truck into a drag truck, whats the point?
Well, to use an old adage - there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The fact that a 8000lb truck can hit 11-12s 1/4 miles easily, beating many a more expensive car at the strip, and then tow thier 15000lb 1/5th wheel camper around the US intrigues people. The fact that these modifications don't impinge on a diesel vehicles daily driving ability - in fact they quite often improve it, is a bonus.
You can say what you like about it, but different it certainly is.
With all this talk about diesels being so much better than a gas engine, why aren't diesels ruling the 1/4 mile times?
1 word. Development.
Diesels have only been around for the last 22years in American pickups (6.9l IDI diesel in the 1983 F-Series), and they have only been around for 11 years in a remotely powerful sense (7.3l PSD 1994.5 F-Series). It has taken people a fair bit to realise the potential of a diesel engine, and even longer to understand it and develop appropriate parts for it. The gas engine has been the mainstay of the American auto industry for almost 100 years, yet thier performance doesn't reflect the development advantage it should do...
Why aren't we all driving diesels then?
A few reasons here.
Along with the development mentioned above, the US has the brilliant combination of the strictest emission laws in the world for diesels, along with the lowest quality fuel available in any 1st world country...
When the new low sulphur diesel gets introduced in the US next year, expect a lot more diesel engined vehicles on the market.
Diesel engines are heavier, I don't think you will ever see a diesel in a Corvette, purely because it would through its weight distribution out.
So, currently (outside of a Jepp Liberty, VW's and a few Mercedes), the only diesel vehicles you can buy in the US are 3/4ton+ diesel pickups.
I can imagine not many people here would trade thier Corvette's for a diesel pickup, and for that I don't blame you, a diesel pickup will never be able to handle like Vette, nor will its ride be as good, and it won't be able to get the economy of a Vette either. And its desirability image isn't quite the same either...
Then again, a Vette can't tow a 15,000 trailer either... Its all a compromise.
Both can be serious drag strip contenders though
Indeed you can at the moment, no argument there, but don't discount the "smokers" - the tides are turning.
And in future, don't think of that smelly, noisy 3 and 1/2 tonne pickup next time you pull up at the lights as an easy win.
Originally Posted by o0 zeno 0o
Prehaps you should take a few engineering classes
I was simply calling 
on the guy saying his truck pulled heavier than a vette.
Point being... Your trying to debunk me with the top performing deisel trucks today as your ammo. What an extreme!!! I don't see that $5000 mod article bragging about 12's.... I wonder why?! And the fact remains that gas engines have a much higher power ratio.
on the guy saying his truck pulled heavier than a vette. Point being... Your trying to debunk me with the top performing deisel trucks today as your ammo. What an extreme!!! I don't see that $5000 mod article bragging about 12's.... I wonder why?! And the fact remains that gas engines have a much higher power ratio.
He is capable of getting consistent 12.8s 1/4 miles with nothing more than a customizable tuner (SCT if you are interested) and a turbo back exhaust - that is less than $1000
. Thats before things like twin (or even triple) turbos are added or water, methanol, propane and nitrous injection...
A GM Duramax would be similar.
A Dodge Ram is capable of even more with nothing more than a tuner.
I am not overly familiar with what a Corvette will run in terms of a 1/4 mile time, but that has to be darn close to (or prehaps even better than a) stock vehicle or a vehicle with $1000 of modifications.
One thing I have to say is sadly lacking in this discussion is a proper understanding of how a diesel operates.
You have many fundamental advantages of a diesel engine.
1. The engine block, diesel engine blocks are capable of much greater things just with a stock engine block - there are people out there running in excess of 100PSI (not a misprint) of boost on the stock engine block.
2. Tuning, fundamentally all that is required to improve a diesels performance is FUEL, and lots of it. Diesels don't follow the stoichiometric 14.7:1 ratio that gas engines have to. They don't restrict airflow to control engine performance, they control fuel flow. So if increased power is what you want, just increase the fuel flow, that is why so much performance can be gained so cheaply - just with a tuner.
3. Efficiency, not only does a diesel engine work on the diesel thermodynamic cycle (as opposed to the Otto cycle for gas engines), which gives it a theoretical maximum efficiency of 63.2% (52.3% for the Otto cycle), it is also capable of "lean burning" as mentioned above. So, for a given amount of fuel injected - more power can be extracted.
4. Injection of Nitrous actually reduces Cylinder temps in a diesel, as opposed to a gas engine, where it increases it. It means you can inject it in far greater quantities, and not be remotely concerned about the cylinders being evaporated.
5. Compression Ignition - means you don't have to worry about tuning ignition (or even providing ancillary power for it)
6. Fuel injected at TDC, you don't have to worry about pinging, or running on a high performance fuel. Where on a gas engined vehicle with a turbocharger or a supercharger it is constant comprimise - to run more boost you have to lower the compression ratio to prevent pre ignition (and its associated problems). You can run 150PSI with a 18:1 CR if you want (people do...), on fuel purchased at your local truck stop.
7. Drivability - most significant modifications to gas engines reduce thier drivability, and subsequently they become exclusive "drag-racers". Diesels have the advantage that performance enhancing modifications IMPROVE thier lower end and mid range torque significantly, meaning not only can they still be used as a daily driver, they are better at it.
8. Biodiesel - Diesel engines are capable of running off homemade diesel made in your fryer - which in many ways is far superior to pump diesel (higher Cetane values)
So you can, if you want, have your diesel engine with 100+PSI and a CR of 18:1, running off homemade fuel you made pretty much for free, making high 10s passes and still getting 14mpg towing your 10k trailer.
I can see you asking a couple of questions,
Why bother with making a diesel truck into a drag truck, whats the point?
Well, to use an old adage - there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The fact that a 8000lb truck can hit 11-12s 1/4 miles easily, beating many a more expensive car at the strip, and then tow thier 15000lb 1/5th wheel camper around the US intrigues people. The fact that these modifications don't impinge on a diesel vehicles daily driving ability - in fact they quite often improve it, is a bonus.
You can say what you like about it, but different it certainly is.
With all this talk about diesels being so much better than a gas engine, why aren't diesels ruling the 1/4 mile times?
1 word. Development.
Diesels have only been around for the last 22years in American pickups (6.9l IDI diesel in the 1983 F-Series), and they have only been around for 11 years in a remotely powerful sense (7.3l PSD 1994.5 F-Series). It has taken people a fair bit to realise the potential of a diesel engine, and even longer to understand it and develop appropriate parts for it. The gas engine has been the mainstay of the American auto industry for almost 100 years, yet thier performance doesn't reflect the development advantage it should do...
Why aren't we all driving diesels then?
A few reasons here.
Along with the development mentioned above, the US has the brilliant combination of the strictest emission laws in the world for diesels, along with the lowest quality fuel available in any 1st world country...
When the new low sulphur diesel gets introduced in the US next year, expect a lot more diesel engined vehicles on the market.
Diesel engines are heavier, I don't think you will ever see a diesel in a Corvette, purely because it would through its weight distribution out.
So, currently (outside of a Jepp Liberty, VW's and a few Mercedes), the only diesel vehicles you can buy in the US are 3/4ton+ diesel pickups.
I can imagine not many people here would trade thier Corvette's for a diesel pickup, and for that I don't blame you, a diesel pickup will never be able to handle like Vette, nor will its ride be as good, and it won't be able to get the economy of a Vette either. And its desirability image isn't quite the same either...
Then again, a Vette can't tow a 15,000 trailer either... Its all a compromise.
Both can be serious drag strip contenders though
I can beat your extreme deisels with extreme gas drag cars anyday.
And in future, don't think of that smelly, noisy 3 and 1/2 tonne pickup next time you pull up at the lights as an easy win.
Last edited by erks; 11-20-2005 at 05:36 AM.
11-16-2005, 05:01 PM
#107
Team Owner
Originally Posted by Tommy D
A couple of weeks ago when I was at Englishtown raceway there was a rather large diesel truck that made two 12.90 passes down the track
Once again Mustangs vs Corvettes = apples to pears
And may I also add, I am still waiting for one of you guys to post a 12.30 bone stock ET
DrRichie, Z51 .... 12.42 @ 113.9
Jschindler, Z51 .... 12.49 @ 114.9
are still number 1 and 2 in the bone stock 1/4 mile challenge. Enough with being keyboard racers, get to the track!
We finally got the cold front here that I have been waiting on, and I'm leaving in the morning on a four day motorcycle trip! In the next month we should have plenty of good weather to see if some better times are to be had.
11-16-2005, 05:31 PM
#108
Team Owner
Originally Posted by erks
First I would like to say hi guys - first post hereWell as a person who worked as an engineer specialising in diesel vehicles for a major American manufacturer up until a couple of months ago, am I allowed to chime in, and debunk more than a couple of myths that are circulating???
I have a very good friend of mine who owns a 2004 6.0l PSD (PowerStroke Diesel) F250 - with the slowest (in a drag racing sense) 3.73 rear gears.
He is capable of getting consistent 12.8s 1/4 miles with nothing more than a customizable tuner (SCT if you are interested) and a turbo back exhaust - that is less than $1000 .
Thats before things like twin (or even triple) turbos are added or water, methanol, propane and nitrous injection...
A GM Duramax would be similar.
A Dodge Ram is capable of even more with nothing more than a tuner.
I am not overly familiar with what a Corvette will run in terms of a 1/4 mile time, but that has to be darn close to (or prehaps even better than a) stock vehicle or a vehicle with $1000 of modifications.
One thing I have to say is sadly lacking in this discussion is a proper understanding of how a diesel operates.
You have many fundamental advantages of a diesel engine.
1. The engine block, diesel engine blocks are capable of much greater things just with a stock engine block - there are people out there running in excess of 100PSI (not a misprint) of boost on the stock engine block.
2. Tuning, fundamentally all that is required to improve a diesels performance is FUEL, and lots of it. Diesels don't follow the stoichiometric 14.7:1 ratio that gas engines have to. They don't restrict airflow to control engine performance, they control fuel flow. So if increased power is what you want, just increase the fuel flow, that is why so much performance can be gained so cheaply - just with a tuner.
3. Efficiency, not only does a diesel engine work on the diesel thermodynamic cycle (as opposed to the Otto cycle for gas engines), which gives it a theoretical maximum efficiency of 63.2% (52.3% for the Otto cycle), it is also capable of "lean burning" as mentioned above. So, for a given amount of fuel injected - more power can be extracted.
4. Injection of Nitrous actually reduces Cylinder temps in a diesel, as opposed to a gas engine, where it increases it. It means you can inject it in far greater quantities, and not be remotely concerned about the cylinders being evaporated.
5. Compression Ignition - means you don't have to worry about tuning ignition (or even providing ancillary power for it)
6. Fuel injected at TDC, you don't have to worry about pinging, or running on a high performance fuel. Where on a gas engined vehicle with a turbocharger or a supercharger it is constant comprimise - to run more boost you have to lower the compression ratio to prevent pre ignition (and its associated problems). You can run 150PSI with a 18:1 CR if you want (people do...), on fuel purchased at your local truck stop.
7. Drivability - most significant modifications to gas engines reduce thier drivability, and subsequently they become exclusive "drag-racers". Diesels have the advantage that performance enhancing modifications IMPROVE thier lower end and mid range torque significantly, meaning not only can they still be used as a daily driver, they are better at it.
8. Biodiesel - Diesel engines are capable of running off homemade diesel made in your fryer - which in many ways is far superior to pump diesel (higher Cetane values)
So you can, if you want, have your diesel engine with 100+PSI and a CR of 18:1, running off homemade fuel you made pretty much for free, making high 10s passes and still getting 14mpg towing your 10k trailer.
I can see you asking a couple of questions,
Why bother with making a diesel truck into a drag truck, whats the point?
Well, to use an old adage - there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The fact that a 8000lb truck can hit 11-12s 1/4 miles easily, beating many a more expensive car at the strip, and then tow thier 15000lb 1/5th wheel camper around the US intrigues people. The fact that these modifications don't impinge on a diesel vehicles daily driving ability - in fact they quite often improve it, is a bonus.
You can say what you like about it, but different it certainly is.
With all this talk about diesels being so much better than a gas engine, why aren't diesels ruling the 1/4 mile times?
1 word. Development.
Diesels have only been around for the last 22years in American pickups (6.9l IDI diesel in the 1983 F-Series), and they have only been around for 11 years in a remotely powerful sense (7.3l PSD 1994.5 F-Series). It has taken people a fair bit to realise the potential of a diesel engine, and even longer to understand it and develop appropriate parts for it. The gas engine has been the mainstay of the American auto industry for almost 100 years, yet thier performance doesn't reflect the development advantage it should do...
Why aren't we all driving diesels then?
A few reasons here.
Along with the development mentioned above, the US has the brilliant combination of the strictest emission laws in the world for diesels, along with the lowest quality fuel available in any 1st world country...
When the new low sulphur diesel gets introduced in the US next year, expect a lot more diesel engined vehicles on the market.
Diesel engines are heavier, I don't think you will ever see a diesel in a Corvette, purely because it would through its weight distribution out.
So, currently (outside of a Jepp Liberty, VW's and a few Mercedes), the only diesel vehicles you can buy in the US are 3/4ton+ diesel pickups.
I can imagine not many people here would trade thier Corvette's for a diesel pickup, and for that I don't blame you, a diesel pickup will never be able to handle like Vette, nor will its ride be as good, and it won't be able to get the economy of a Vette either. And its desirability image isn't quite the same either...
Then again, a Vette can't tow a 15,000 trailer either... Its all a compromise.
Both can be serious drag strip contenders though
Indeed you can at the moment, no argument there, but don't discount the "smokers" - the tides are turning.
And in future, don't think of that smelly, noisy 3 and 1/2 tonne pickup next time you pull up at the lights as an easy win.
I have a very good friend of mine who owns a 2004 6.0l PSD (PowerStroke Diesel) F250 - with the slowest (in a drag racing sense) 3.73 rear gears.
He is capable of getting consistent 12.8s 1/4 miles with nothing more than a customizable tuner (SCT if you are interested) and a turbo back exhaust - that is less than $1000
. Thats before things like twin (or even triple) turbos are added or water, methanol, propane and nitrous injection...
A GM Duramax would be similar.
A Dodge Ram is capable of even more with nothing more than a tuner.
I am not overly familiar with what a Corvette will run in terms of a 1/4 mile time, but that has to be darn close to (or prehaps even better than a) stock vehicle or a vehicle with $1000 of modifications.
One thing I have to say is sadly lacking in this discussion is a proper understanding of how a diesel operates.
You have many fundamental advantages of a diesel engine.
1. The engine block, diesel engine blocks are capable of much greater things just with a stock engine block - there are people out there running in excess of 100PSI (not a misprint) of boost on the stock engine block.
2. Tuning, fundamentally all that is required to improve a diesels performance is FUEL, and lots of it. Diesels don't follow the stoichiometric 14.7:1 ratio that gas engines have to. They don't restrict airflow to control engine performance, they control fuel flow. So if increased power is what you want, just increase the fuel flow, that is why so much performance can be gained so cheaply - just with a tuner.
3. Efficiency, not only does a diesel engine work on the diesel thermodynamic cycle (as opposed to the Otto cycle for gas engines), which gives it a theoretical maximum efficiency of 63.2% (52.3% for the Otto cycle), it is also capable of "lean burning" as mentioned above. So, for a given amount of fuel injected - more power can be extracted.
4. Injection of Nitrous actually reduces Cylinder temps in a diesel, as opposed to a gas engine, where it increases it. It means you can inject it in far greater quantities, and not be remotely concerned about the cylinders being evaporated.
5. Compression Ignition - means you don't have to worry about tuning ignition (or even providing ancillary power for it)
6. Fuel injected at TDC, you don't have to worry about pinging, or running on a high performance fuel. Where on a gas engined vehicle with a turbocharger or a supercharger it is constant comprimise - to run more boost you have to lower the compression ratio to prevent pre ignition (and its associated problems). You can run 150PSI with a 18:1 CR if you want (people do...), on fuel purchased at your local truck stop.
7. Drivability - most significant modifications to gas engines reduce thier drivability, and subsequently they become exclusive "drag-racers". Diesels have the advantage that performance enhancing modifications IMPROVE thier lower end and mid range torque significantly, meaning not only can they still be used as a daily driver, they are better at it.
8. Biodiesel - Diesel engines are capable of running off homemade diesel made in your fryer - which in many ways is far superior to pump diesel (higher Cetane values)
So you can, if you want, have your diesel engine with 100+PSI and a CR of 18:1, running off homemade fuel you made pretty much for free, making high 10s passes and still getting 14mpg towing your 10k trailer.
I can see you asking a couple of questions,
Why bother with making a diesel truck into a drag truck, whats the point?
Well, to use an old adage - there is more than one way to skin a cat.
The fact that a 8000lb truck can hit 11-12s 1/4 miles easily, beating many a more expensive car at the strip, and then tow thier 15000lb 1/5th wheel camper around the US intrigues people. The fact that these modifications don't impinge on a diesel vehicles daily driving ability - in fact they quite often improve it, is a bonus.
You can say what you like about it, but different it certainly is.
With all this talk about diesels being so much better than a gas engine, why aren't diesels ruling the 1/4 mile times?
1 word. Development.
Diesels have only been around for the last 22years in American pickups (6.9l IDI diesel in the 1983 F-Series), and they have only been around for 11 years in a remotely powerful sense (7.3l PSD 1994.5 F-Series). It has taken people a fair bit to realise the potential of a diesel engine, and even longer to understand it and develop appropriate parts for it. The gas engine has been the mainstay of the American auto industry for almost 100 years, yet thier performance doesn't reflect the development advantage it should do...
Why aren't we all driving diesels then?
A few reasons here.
Along with the development mentioned above, the US has the brilliant combination of the strictest emission laws in the world for diesels, along with the lowest quality fuel available in any 1st world country...
When the new low sulphur diesel gets introduced in the US next year, expect a lot more diesel engined vehicles on the market.
Diesel engines are heavier, I don't think you will ever see a diesel in a Corvette, purely because it would through its weight distribution out.
So, currently (outside of a Jepp Liberty, VW's and a few Mercedes), the only diesel vehicles you can buy in the US are 3/4ton+ diesel pickups.
I can imagine not many people here would trade thier Corvette's for a diesel pickup, and for that I don't blame you, a diesel pickup will never be able to handle like Vette, nor will its ride be as good, and it won't be able to get the economy of a Vette either. And its desirability image isn't quite the same either...
Then again, a Vette can't tow a 15,000 trailer either... Its all a compromise.
Both can be serious drag strip contenders though
Indeed you can at the moment, no argument there, but don't discount the "smokers" - the tides are turning.
And in future, don't think of that smelly, noisy 3 and 1/2 tonne pickup next time you pull up at the lights as an easy win.
Wow.... welcome, and thanks for the informative post.
11-16-2005, 06:43 PM
#109
Safety Car
Originally Posted by erks
First I would like to say hi guys - first post hereWell as a person who worked as an engineer specialising in diesel vehicles for a major American manufacturer up until a couple of months ago, am I allowed to chime in, and debunk more than a couple of myths that are circulating??? ....... And in future, don't think of that smelly, noisy 3 and 1/2 tonne pickup next time you pull up at the lights as an easy win.
....... And in future, don't think of that smelly, noisy 3 and 1/2 tonne pickup next time you pull up at the lights as an easy win.
11-16-2005, 07:18 PM
#110
Heel & Toe
Member Since: Nov 2005
Posts: 16
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Received 0 Likes
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Originally Posted by crabman
Most any of the trucks can get 150 hp or so with just a box but its not really real world power. You can only run a box cranked up to the max for very brief periods before egts go through the roof without supporting mods.
The only problem with high EGT's (and I am talking above 1800) is you will start to melt pistons.
With an aftermarket exhaust from the turbo back, even with a very aggresive fueling program it is pretty difficult to get close to 1800 (well on a 6.0l PSD it is) - start adding propane and alcohol though, and you really start increasing your EGT's
I will admit however - I wouldn't try towing a 15k trailer up an 8% grade with such an aggressive program - you can have a safer program installed for that.
All the trucks come with turbos that wont move enough air to support that level of fueling. The stock units are designed to provide as rapid a spoolup as possible and this means moving just enough air to keep the egts in check at stock fueling. More turbo is required to run more fueling continuously. My stock turbo sharpneled with just an 80 hp rail pressure box after about 2 months. Course by that time I had also added honed injectors and those pushed the boost to around 45 psi. If I recall correctly the stock unit was designed to run up to about 25 psi.
The 7.3l turbo won't provide enough airflow above around 28psi, the 6.0l on the other hand... The same friend who gets the consistent 12.8s 1/4s with just a programmer and exhaust, has seen 58psi on the stock turbo (with Nitrous, propane and water injection)
The other thing that will die in a fairly short time frame is the trans for automatics or clutch with the sticks. Just like any car you have to upgrade the driveline when adding serious power.
)will handle up to around 180hp above what a standard 6.0l produces on an everyday basis with just revised shift points and line pressures, which can be done by the same SCT that changes your fueling. (manual drag trucks aren't common, there are a few Dodges, but thats it)
Anything above that, and you will have to look at changing your clutches and torque convertor, around 3k all up.
The other thing that just doesnt work out in the real world is milage. While the truck could get better milage it never does. This is because the operator invariably gets on the loud peddle harder and more often. The end result being most guys will do about the same out on the highway but a little worse in town.
A significantly more powerful gas engine will never get the same mileage compared to a stock one.
Last edited by erks; 11-20-2005 at 05:38 AM.
11-16-2005, 09:31 PM
#111
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by jschindler
Tell me!!!
We finally got the cold front here that I have been waiting on, and I'm leaving in the morning on a four day motorcycle trip! In the next month we should have plenty of good weather to see if some better times are to be had.
We finally got the cold front here that I have been waiting on, and I'm leaving in the morning on a four day motorcycle trip! In the next month we should have plenty of good weather to see if some better times are to be had.
Hey Jim,
Enjoy the trip
11-16-2005, 09:38 PM
#112
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by 427CPE
dude, your in dreamland. you'll be lucky to run 13s with your c6 auto.
I've already blown the doors off a few running 13.5@103 at my strip.
The cobra will murder your car in particular. If not, post some time slips that show me different.
I've already blown the doors off a few running 13.5@103 at my strip.
The cobra will murder your car in particular. If not, post some time slips that show me different.
While we may not be able to nail a Cobra, several of us have run 12s
see 1/4 mile challenge 2005 Corvettes in the tech section
Bone stock
DrRichie, Z51 .... 12.42 @ 113.9
Jschindler, Z51 .... 12.49 @ 114.9
Orange C6, Z51/auto .... 12.5 @ 112
Zippin Zee, Z51 .... 12.65 @ 111.65
Shooter 49, Auto/3:15 .... 12.7 @109.
Tommy D, Auto/3:15 .... 12.83 @109.44
Ginny C6, Auto/F55 .... 12.97 @
Tampa Vet, Auto/3:15 .... 12.98 @108
C6 Matt, Z51 ........... 13.25 @110.6
JDWK, Z51 ………. 13.64 @106.24
I have noted the Slush Boxes in BOLD for your review
11-16-2005, 10:42 PM
#114
Drifting
Originally Posted by vette-oholic
SVT 0-60 = 4.5 sec
SVT 1/4 mile = 12.9 sec
C6 Z51 0-60 = 4.1
C6 Z51 1/4 mile = 12.5
but obviously, the SVT could win given the vette driver fuc#$ up
CORVETTE WINS!!!
SVT 1/4 mile = 12.9 sec
C6 Z51 0-60 = 4.1
C6 Z51 1/4 mile = 12.5
but obviously, the SVT could win given the vette driver fuc#$ up
CORVETTE WINS!!!
Also Cobra top speed is 155MPH (electronic limited), C6 180MPH+. Given both with 6sp Manual
Last edited by DJackman; 11-16-2005 at 10:44 PM.
11-16-2005, 11:52 PM
#116
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Mar 2005
Location: Eustis Florida
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Originally Posted by o0 zeno 0o
201 HP out of 320 CID is not impressive. How you thought that was helping your argument, I'm really not sure. And show me Edge or Kennedy trucks running 12's with stock internals. I love bates, but you don't see his trucks ruinning 12's either. Booo for 4k redlines.
11-17-2005, 12:33 AM
#117
Heel & Toe
Member Since: Nov 2005
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Originally Posted by fergy flyer
That was 320 CDI. 320 CDI is the model. I stated that it was 201 hp from a 3.2L V6 diesel. We're talking a 4000lb car that goes 0-60 in 6.6 seconds, a high 14 low 15 second 1/4 mile and gets 27 city and 37 highway. To me that is pretty incredible.
Thing flys, and will hit 60 in around 6s flat.
Oh, and for the record, while I am a Ford person, I would take a C6 over a Cobra (I couldn't give a hoot which was quicker)...
And this is coming from someone who only recently sold a DOHC 5.4l Ford with over 700hp
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