mikeyc6

Please only vote in this poll if you've had a legitimate case of DBS (Dead Battery Syndrome). Forgetting to leave your M6 car in reverse does not constitute DBS (for the purpose of this poll) as it is simply driver error. For the purpose of this poll, DBS is defined as:

- Battery went dead to the point that the doors/hatch would not open via the normal (electronic) method

- The car had been sitting/stored for less than 1 month when this happened

- The transmission was confirmed to be in reverse (M6) or park (A4/A6) when the dead battery occurred

- No other known battery draining device was left on (radar detector, cell phone charger, etc.)

Simply put, DBS is when you go out to your car that has been sitting less than a month and find it "dead as a doornail" with no logical reason as to why the battery would be drained.

Mike

6spdC6

Mike thanks for the poll. For the record I now take my garage door opener out of the car when leaving the car for more than a hour.

Its parked in the garage downstairs, under a older big screen tv on the floor above if that makes a difference.

anyone replying to this poll please read my posting titled DBS/nostart long Any replies will keep it curent and possibly more people will see it.

gota07

No vette
No DBS
No vote

AceVentura

ttt

mikeyc6

This is getting interesting. So far it looks like a great majority of the people who have had DBS have these things in common:

- M6 (obvious I guess)
- Use the passive door lock/unlock feature
- Have garage door openers with rolling codes
- Have NAV

Of course, if we are tempted to blame anything like garage door openers, passive lock/unlock, etc. it must be some interaction with the M6 shutdown sequence since no A4 cars seem to have the problem. Perhaps something is causing the car to "wake up" and some bug in the M6 shutdown sequence keeps it from falling asleep again under certain very specific conditions.

Mike

Fred S

Just to mention again (just in case)... I've had DBS twice. Both times I remember entering the passenger door between start ups. I then switched the door locking system to automatically unlocking both doors (instead of just driver door) and I make sure the driver door is the last to shut. Any time I enter the car, I start it and shut it down (or drive it the same day).

I haven't had DBS for about 5 months now (although I'm not ready to blame that on my new procedures!).

Funny...if the blinking light on the radio is still blinking 2 days after you last were in the car, your good to go for weeks!

Edit: it would be interesting to know if anyone has had DBS that isn't using the passive door locking system (and of course, had it in reverse).

6spdC6

Just to throw a monkey wrech into your posting BUT This was after 2 days
My first one (short version) light was blinking, opened door, got in, pushed button heard a click sound, no start and all went dead. had to use floor lever to get out (Longer version of this posted before)

BRCC

I have had my car since Aug 25, 2004. Had the problem once about a month after getting the car. Since then I always ensure that I shut down doing the following: Transmission in Reverse, pull EME brake, shut engine down and verify steering wheel lock is engaged fully. This becomes routine after a few days, but no DBS since Sept 04.

- M6
- I do not use the passive door lock/unlock feature
- Have garage door openers with rolling codes
- Have NAV
Here's the interesting thing: I remember entering the passenger door between start ups when the DBS occured.


One thing I noticed about the poll is there were 32 responses to DBS and 41 responses to Do you have a MN6 (so now the validity of the poll comes into question)

mikeyc6

Yeah, I figured that would happen. Hopefully we'll get enough postings so that the few invalid responses will get lost in the noise. No matter what you do or how you word things, you'll always get at least a few people making invalid entries. 'Tiz human nature.

Mike

6spdC6

Probally some people are just missing a question. No deceit just human nature.
This poll is unscientific at best. You could not take into court, but its VERY IMPORTANT as it shows some trends.
We on this forum are probally doing more to fix this problem than GM is doing. HE!! they do not even want to admit there is a problem. I have spoken to 5 different GM engineers, starting with Dave Hill, they should have been politicians.

mikeyc6

This poll has made me realize one thing. I thought there were at least a handful of A4 owners who have had a dead battery but seeing that absolutely no one who has an A4 has had DBS, this tells me that the problem must lie with something that is unique to the M6 cars. I think the fact that a large percentage of DBS people use passive locking/unlocking only indicates that this is a popular feature. In fact, most of the rest of the entries in this poll are probably no-never-minds because if something like garage door openers with rolling codes were causing a problem, it would cause a problem on the A4 cars to.

So what are we left with? Some bug in the reverse shutdown sequence or the column lock actuator getting "stuck". Since when we get DBS, the car obviously thinks it is shut down, I doubt the problem is with the reverse requirement. I'm beginning to agree with the GM engineer who suspects the column lock as the problem. What if the column lock solenoid/motor is getting stuck in some circumstances like when the pin doesn't line up with a hole in the column and the solenoid/motor therefore is still trying to push the pin? Something like this is probably on a circuit that doesn't have the 15-20 minute auto-shutoff because it isn't a typical device that gets "left on". Therefore if the column lock actuator is still being energized, it may cause the drain.

Does anyone know if the 97-2004 "column lock bypass" will work on a C6? I wonder if the problem would go away if we disable column lock? It'd be hard to test of course, but there are a few people who have had DBS 3, 4, 5 times. Maybe one of them would be desperate enough to disable the column lock to see if it fixes it. I did post when I had my only episode of DBS months ago and said in my post that the little "zip" noise made by the column lock somehow sounded different when I shut down the time I had DBS. It's as if the column lock "zip" sound when you press the off switch was incomplete, or the sound was a little shorter than normal.

Mike

Low12s

It would be interesting to see this poll across ALL C6 owners (not just forum members). It looks like roughly 250 folks have had this problem - it would have been nice to see the statistic of the forum members who have not had this problem (can you redo and add a check box for that). Then we would at least have a percentage number for the problem.

Derail

250?
Where the he!! did you pull that number from this poll.

05C6400

The one time the battery was at fault since a cell had gone dead. The second time around it lost its charge and I got a jump from road side assistance took it to the dealer and all checked out fine. It is annoying since the windows keep indexing down or never index at all.

OttoNP

My thoughts on the poll (with a little statistical analysis):

numer of cases - good information but meanless statistically since we don't know what that is out of, that's where it would be good to know how many people have not had DBS

auto/man - this is best part of survey, we'd expect the number to match the build percent, which it obviously doesn't, we know that the man is statistically significant

FOB storage - don't know what the normal distribution is of storage distance, so it is also statistically meaningless; however since we know that most people don't store it within 10 ft, if that was the highest we could suspect it. It seems like it follows what I'd guess is how far people store them

aftermarket and radar - once again we don't know what this is out of, can't tell anything

garage door openings - almost all use rolling codes now, plus it'll probably be easy to replicate

opening and closing the door again - this one is interesting...I'm curious what happens if you shut down a manual in rev,then take it out of gear, leave and reenter car? Maybe you have to go to reverse again? I'll have to try it, I doubt it though since the column doesn't unlock.

All in all I think the main thing we see form it is what we already suspected, man are more susceptiable. Since I've seen several cases where the driver swears they shifted in reverse but then I find they didn't, I still think this is leading cause -sorry. I don't think they are lying about it (they think they did), my Dad's done it twice and we were yelling at each other before I went to check the car and found it in 5th. The quote below is probably a similar case, checking for the column to be locked should guarantee proper shutdown. Also, the column lock eliminator for C5 would not work on C6. The C5 feedback signal was a switch that was open or closed, the C6 feedback signal goes between 2 resistive values.

I could make 2 bypass systems:

1. Eliminate need to shift to reverse to fully shut down, problem is if you accidentally hit off on highway your column would lock.

2. Eliminate need to shift to reverse to fully shut down and disable steering column lock, this way if you did hit off it would just turn off, which is what it does now.

Would anyone buy something to bypass these things? Actually, I think I'd only be wiling to do 2.

6spdC6

I MAKE IT A POINT to engage clutch to get the car to move back a bit
as part of a shut off ritual. It happened after that!

I was wondering about a CAGS type device for reverse lock out, as its been said that the 06 fix cannot be done on 05 models

I still think the reverse lockout/steering colum lock has something to do with it.
I did get in trunk for a minuit the night before I had the second problem, cannot say for shure if I opened door or trunk on the first incident. Possible something wakes up and does not shut down.(Sometimes)

As we get more replies we get more ideas. Keep sending things in people
Thanks Dave

OttoNP

I'm sure there are causes of other failures, I'm just talking about the majority. I have heard of a case where the ignition switch is not fully snapped in so it binds a little when you rocker it. In this case it would sometimes stick when it was turned off and that would cause the vehicle to turn on after 15-20 seconds. It was kind of interesting....

As far as disabling it, there are a number of things that would need to be done:

Easiest thing I can think of is to somehow get an 06 BCM and install it. It is easy to install, only 3 7mm screws right under passenger feet. It has fuse panel integrated with it. It may come preprogrammed (which would rule, but I doubt it), but if not you'd need to program it and probably as an 2006, which may not be possible because they sometimes use VIN to see programming options. Then, you'd need to remove the steering column lock module, which is pretty easy, it is behind instrument cluster. First remove the ip trim (holds the start button), which I think just snaps out, or you have to take the kicker panel below it out first 2 7mm screws. then their are 4 screws to remove the cluster and behind it is the module. You'd need to make sure the column was unlocked and then secure the two connectors that used to connect to the module.

The other way, which I think is harder, is below. You'd need to disable the column lock for safety, which would require getting to the module as outlined above and using a latching relay with resistors to trick the column module into thinking the column was functioning. You could also make a more complicated circuit, but a latching relay would be easiest. Now,you'd need to circumvent the 2 reverse switiches. One of them I think you could just unplug and short the wires so it is always close. The other one, which is connected to the BCM would still need to function when you shift to reverse (this is how reverse lights are triggered) and would need to be closed somehow when you turned off the vehicle. So, you would need to connected into the wires and set up a relay or other circuit that would close it when you push the off button.

I don't know if either of these option would affect DBS, it really only circumvents the reverse requirement, if something else was happening it would have no effect.

mikeyc6

No way! Do you have an M6? If you do, you know how difficult it is to accidentally leave the car in 5th instead of reverse. First, if you do that, your door won't open and it won't let you out (unless you manually press the unlock switch). Immediately at that point, you'll know something is wrong. If you miss the "Shift to Reverse" on the DIC at that point and get out, you are blasted with horn honks and the lights stay on. In addition, the one time it happened to me, after I got power back, I tested it without ever moving the shift lever: still in reverse just like it was when I shut it down. There is no way this is going to happen unnoticed to a person who drives the car regularly. Maybe someone unfamiliar with the car could ignore all those signs, but not a C6 driver. There are way too many signals to indicate something is wrong. Many people have reported same/similar so it is beyond any shadow of a doubt not caused by people failing to put the car in reverse.

Mike

archtop

I have: MN6
Use passive lock/unlock setting
Have garage door opener with rolling code( not factory)
Do not have nav or onstar (my car is 1sa)
Have aftermarket stereo w/3 seperate power amps and xm
Have left the car unstarted for 2+ weeks at a time(many times) and have not had DBS

ajfruscia

I have had 2 c6's both have had 3+ DBS. I...
1) Back my car into the garage (SO it is alwy's in reverse)
2) Pull the e brake
3) Then shut it down

and still have had DBS...been to the dealer 5+ times found nothing wrong

HOWEVER for the past 4 months I have:
1) Unplugged my garage doors
2) Rolled down my drivers side door window
3) Shake my steering wheel to ensure it’s locked

NO DBS...not sure but I would try anything...IT IS SOOO FRUSTRATING that every time you approach the car I pray the radio light is blinking!