Nitrogen in Tires
04-29-2005, 03:38 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Nitrogen in Tires
Last night I saw a feature on the news about putting nitrogen in tires instead of air. The story said that this is done routinely in racing and other applications and is now being made available to the customers of Sam's Discount Warehouse stores. Nitrogen is said to extend tire life because it holds the tire pressure longer than air due to its molecular structure. Apparently, it is also less likely to absorb moisture and therefore will not be as corrosive on wheels. Most of you may have already known this but it was news to me. Also, if Sam's is offering this service, it will probably gain wider acceptance...for what it's worth.
04-29-2005, 03:45 PM
#2
Le Mans Master
Originally Posted by fts
Last night I saw a feature on the news about putting nitrogen in tires instead of air. The story said that this is done routinely in racing and other applications and is now being made available to the customers of Sam's Discount Warehouse stores. Nitrogen is said to extend tire life because it holds the tire pressure longer than air due to its molecular structure. Apparently, it is also less likely to absorb moisture and therefore will not be as corrosive on wheels. Most of you may have already known this but it was news to me. Also, if Sam's is offering this service, it will probably gain wider acceptance...for what it's worth.
Nitrogen is a bigger molecule than oxygen, and thus leaks out at a slower rate.
Lacking oxygen, there is no internal oxidatioin to the rubber compounds, but this matter more to long haut trucks than high powered sports cars on sticky tires that get new tires at 10K-20K intervals.
I use nitrogen in my sprots car tires because (being dry) it expands less with the same temperature rise than regular air. So I can start with 33 PSI at the track and finish with 40 PSI after a good long run. With air I would have to start with 30-31 PSI to achieve 40 SPI after the same run.
04-29-2005, 03:59 PM
#3
Heel & Toe
Member Since: Feb 2005
Location: Golden Colorado
Posts: 23
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by fts
Last night I saw a feature on the news about putting nitrogen in tires instead of air. The story said that this is done routinely in racing and other applications and is now being made available to the customers of Sam's Discount Warehouse stores. Nitrogen is said to extend tire life because it holds the tire pressure longer than air due to its molecular structure. Apparently, it is also less likely to absorb moisture and therefore will not be as corrosive on wheels. Most of you may have already known this but it was news to me. Also, if Sam's is offering this service, it will probably gain wider acceptance...for what it's worth.
I just bought four tires at COSTCO for the SUV and they filled the tires with nitrogen. The valve stem caps are green to remind you that the tire is filled with nitrogen. The stores have nitrogen pumps versus the typical air pumps at gas stations. If you do have to add "air", it will be OK.
04-29-2005, 04:18 PM
#4
CRAZFST
Member Since: Oct 2004
Location: Lawrence, KS
Posts: 529
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Originally Posted by MitchAlsup
Nitrogen is dry, air contains water vapor. So, it is not that nitrogen absorbes less water vapor through the tire, it is that it goes in without any water vapor in it, so it starts out at zero. Nitrogen atmospheres will absorm almost exactly the same amount of water vapro as regular air in similar conditions.
Nitrogen is a bigger molecule than oxygen, and thus leaks out at a slower rate.
Lacking oxygen, there is no internal oxidatioin to the rubber compounds, but this matter more to long haut trucks than high powered sports cars on sticky tires that get new tires at 10K-20K intervals.
I use nitrogen in my sprots car tires because (being dry) it expands less with the same temperature rise than regular air. So I can start with 33 PSI at the track and finish with 40 PSI after a good long run. With air I would have to start with 30-31 PSI to achieve 40 SPI after the same run.
Nitrogen is a bigger molecule than oxygen, and thus leaks out at a slower rate.
Lacking oxygen, there is no internal oxidatioin to the rubber compounds, but this matter more to long haut trucks than high powered sports cars on sticky tires that get new tires at 10K-20K intervals.
I use nitrogen in my sprots car tires because (being dry) it expands less with the same temperature rise than regular air. So I can start with 33 PSI at the track and finish with 40 PSI after a good long run. With air I would have to start with 30-31 PSI to achieve 40 SPI after the same run.
Great answer and right on the mark!
04-29-2005, 06:30 PM
#5
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: San Antonio Texas - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
Posts: 3,316
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Interesting idea, but I wonder just how important it is in the scheme of things. The 2 molecules are actually very close to one another in size, differing only by the number of protons and neutrons in their nucleus. Nitrogen has 7 protons and 7 neutrons, while oxygen has 8 of each.
By percentage measured in gram molecular weight, air is 78.08% nitrogen, 20.94% oxygen, with remainder being comprised of trace gases and water vapor. The amount of vater vapor in the air is dependent upon temperature and relative humidity. The capacity of a given volume of air to hold water vapor is directly proportional to the temperature, so an easy rough measure of the water content in air is the relative humidity. Any gas will pick up and hold water vapor, but gases are routinely "dried" before use in industrial settings. I don't know if that is true for applications in tires.
Nitrogen is is the 7th element in the periodic table, and under normal circumstances, exists as a "diatomic" molecule, that is to say 2 atoms of nitrogen are linked together to form one nitrogen molecule. That gives a molecular weight of 14 (2 nitrogen atoms x 7 = 14). Oxygen is the 8th element in the periodic table (larger atom), is also diatomic, and therefore has a molecular weight of 16 ( 2 oxygen atoms 2 x 8 = 16). Oxygen is therefore, slightly more dense than nitrogen by virtue of it's larger atomic structure.
The biggest reason nitrogen is used many times in industry, rather than air, is that nitrogen is a non-reactive molecule, where as oxygen will react with many substances causing oxidation, iron being a good example (rust, iron oxide).
Hope this helps...
By percentage measured in gram molecular weight, air is 78.08% nitrogen, 20.94% oxygen, with remainder being comprised of trace gases and water vapor. The amount of vater vapor in the air is dependent upon temperature and relative humidity. The capacity of a given volume of air to hold water vapor is directly proportional to the temperature, so an easy rough measure of the water content in air is the relative humidity. Any gas will pick up and hold water vapor, but gases are routinely "dried" before use in industrial settings. I don't know if that is true for applications in tires.
Nitrogen is is the 7th element in the periodic table, and under normal circumstances, exists as a "diatomic" molecule, that is to say 2 atoms of nitrogen are linked together to form one nitrogen molecule. That gives a molecular weight of 14 (2 nitrogen atoms x 7 = 14). Oxygen is the 8th element in the periodic table (larger atom), is also diatomic, and therefore has a molecular weight of 16 ( 2 oxygen atoms 2 x 8 = 16). Oxygen is therefore, slightly more dense than nitrogen by virtue of it's larger atomic structure.
The biggest reason nitrogen is used many times in industry, rather than air, is that nitrogen is a non-reactive molecule, where as oxygen will react with many substances causing oxidation, iron being a good example (rust, iron oxide).
Hope this helps...
04-29-2005, 07:15 PM
#6
Team Owner
Member Since: Sep 2003
Location: Raleigh / Rolesville NC
Posts: 43,084
Likes: 0
Received 24 Likes
on
24 Posts
N2 is used my many racing teams. This way the tire does heat up as much and this helps keep constant air pressure.
You have heard the NASCAR teams talking about taking out 1/2 lb of air out one tire or another. That 1/2 lb makes a difference on the race track. Not on the street.
You have heard the NASCAR teams talking about taking out 1/2 lb of air out one tire or another. That 1/2 lb makes a difference on the race track. Not on the street.
04-29-2005, 07:26 PM
#7
Safety Car
Member Since: Dec 2004
Location: Tucson AZ
Posts: 4,276
Likes: 0
Received 8 Likes
on
4 Posts
St. Jude Donor '08-'09-'10-'11-'12-'13-'14-'15
...I read the above posts, but...I was told if you opted to go with nitrogen, you shouldn't contaminate the tire by adding air if it gets low. Of course, that being said, if the use of nitrogen is suppose to reduce/eliminate normal loss of tire pressure, maybe its a moot point.
04-29-2005, 09:15 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by jazzlove
Interesting idea, but I wonder just how important it is in the scheme of things. The 2 molecules are actually very close to one another in size, differing only by the number of protons and neutrons in their nucleus. Nitrogen has 7 protons and 7 neutrons, while oxygen has 8 of each.
By percentage measured in gram molecular weight, air is 78.08% nitrogen, 20.94% oxygen, with remainder being comprised of trace gases and water vapor. The amount of vater vapor in the air is dependent upon temperature and relative humidity. The capacity of a given volume of air to hold water vapor is directly proportional to the temperature, so an easy rough measure of the water content in air is the relative humidity. Any gas will pick up and hold water vapor, but gases are routinely "dried" before use in industrial settings. I don't know if that is true for applications in tires.
Nitrogen is is the 7th element in the periodic table, and under normal circumstances, exists as a "diatomic" molecule, that is to say 2 atoms of nitrogen are linked together to form one nitrogen molecule. That gives a molecular weight of 14 (2 nitrogen atoms x 7 = 14). Oxygen is the 8th element in the periodic table (larger atom), is also diatomic, and therefore has a molecular weight of 16 ( 2 oxygen atoms 2 x 8 = 16). Oxygen is therefore, slightly more dense than nitrogen by virtue of it's larger atomic structure.
The biggest reason nitrogen is used many times in industry, rather than air, is that nitrogen is a non-reactive molecule, where as oxygen will react with many substances causing oxidation, iron being a good example (rust, iron oxide).
Hope this helps...
By percentage measured in gram molecular weight, air is 78.08% nitrogen, 20.94% oxygen, with remainder being comprised of trace gases and water vapor. The amount of vater vapor in the air is dependent upon temperature and relative humidity. The capacity of a given volume of air to hold water vapor is directly proportional to the temperature, so an easy rough measure of the water content in air is the relative humidity. Any gas will pick up and hold water vapor, but gases are routinely "dried" before use in industrial settings. I don't know if that is true for applications in tires.
Nitrogen is is the 7th element in the periodic table, and under normal circumstances, exists as a "diatomic" molecule, that is to say 2 atoms of nitrogen are linked together to form one nitrogen molecule. That gives a molecular weight of 14 (2 nitrogen atoms x 7 = 14). Oxygen is the 8th element in the periodic table (larger atom), is also diatomic, and therefore has a molecular weight of 16 ( 2 oxygen atoms 2 x 8 = 16). Oxygen is therefore, slightly more dense than nitrogen by virtue of it's larger atomic structure.
The biggest reason nitrogen is used many times in industry, rather than air, is that nitrogen is a non-reactive molecule, where as oxygen will react with many substances causing oxidation, iron being a good example (rust, iron oxide).
Hope this helps...
What??
04-29-2005, 09:17 PM
#9
Melting Slicks
Originally Posted by crazyeddie
What??
04-29-2005, 10:17 PM
#10
Melting Slicks
Member Since: Jul 2004
Location: San Antonio Texas - Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic
Posts: 3,316
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Originally Posted by crazyeddie
O.K, who are you and what have you done with my fellow dummies??
