theblackvette

I found this interesting chatter on the Mustang Cobra R against a Z06. I was surprised to see how these people generally agree that the Cobra R doesn't come close to the performance of a Z. I owned a SVT Cobra. Never been in a Cobra R. I would have thought that the Cobra R would have performed closely to the Z06.

Has anyone here experienced a Cobra R???????

Here is the link to the chitter chatter:
http://www.automotiveforums.com/t132554.html

niphilli2

No matter how many engine and suspension mods you do to a SVT Cobra the chassis is just not good enough to outperform a Z. Dont get me wrong, they are nice cars and perform very well, but they are still heavy and outdated.

The '00 R code was under-rated at 385 HP (most put 360-380 to the wheels), but is still not as fast in a straight line or at the track as a Z. I guess this is mostly because of weight/aerodynamics.

Z_OH_6

Interesting reading, thanks for the link. What can you say, our Z's are literally world class automobiles at a fraction of the world class price tag. You can say that the Mustang, a super nice car in its own right, has a back seat; sort of. I'm reminded of that travesty that Motor Trend sold to its readers some time back when it compared the Vette to a BMW and some others. It was touted to be a 'performance shoot-out'. The Corvette won on every count except maybe one and they handed the first place banner to the Bimmer by virtue of the fact that it had a back seat. Readers were none too pleased and the magazine's editor was gone shortly thereafter. Not many marques can approach the loyalty of Corvette owners, and for good reason. :yesnod:

roushraven

Exactly! The stang will come close but it will ultimately miss the mark of even a stock Z.

Arthur :flag

Tom T.

The Mustang's chassis dates back to the '70's and the long gone, unlamented Ford Fairmont. Considering what those guys have had to work with over the years, the Cobra R turned out to be a pretty decent piece. However, the Z06 beats it pretty soundly on the track, and, is much nicer to live with day by day than the Cobra R. The new generation Mustang will certainly be better than the current generation...how much better, only time will tell. Me, I keep having fantasies about the C6 Z06, hubba hubba!

TT :cheers:

Z06_2002

MotorTrend TV I think had the Cobra R vs. Viper vs. Z06 it was a pretty cool shootout. The Z is a racecar no matter how you look at it. :D

Cobra4B

:withstupid: Stang is still too heavy and has an outdated chassis. I remember that "performance" :rolleyes: shootout betweek the Z06, M3, and Poxter S. The Z won all but one test, and didn't loose any! In fact, it tied w/ the M3 for slalom speed. The queers at Motor Trend gave the win the the Bimmer b/c it had four seats... thought it was a performance shoot out? Not a, can I load up my buddies and go play golf, shootout!

theblackvette

I am pretty surprised that the Cobra R seems to not be a good competitor to the Z06.

My SVT was pretty quick but I would have thought the R would have really been a tough competitor for the Z06.

pwrshhftd

A stock 2000 cobra R will beat a stock z06 on a road course.
I have personally drien a R and own a z06.

the r is a track car, it beats the z on most all road courses hands down...

i dare you to show otherwise, in an unbiased comparable real world test.

There sems to be some confusion on this thread...
You asked about a Cobra R, the last one being a 2000 R.

This car came with 385 hp, 6 speed, independent rear, and brembo brakes, no A/C, oil coolers, rear end oil cooler and and and and and ... no back seat , no radio...
look at the race weight its only fractionally heavier...

I have seen several tests, and the 2000 R woops butt.

&0's chassis or not, that thing is an awesome car, and more predictable ontrack than my z06. I know its hard to believe but its true.....

How many people on this thread have driven an 00 R?
Frgive my typos...




[Modified by pwrshhftd, 1:31 AM 12/16/2003]

theblackvette

Hi Pwrshhftd,

You mentioned the 2000 Cobra R being a better performer than the Z06? So I assume that you think this artice is :bs ?

I dunno. I never been in one and I do not doubt you. But a search revealed this so called road test between a 2001 Z06 and a Cobra R. Please at least take a look at this and tell me whatcha think. Thanks!
http://www.usatoday.com/money/perfi/...ealey/0032.htm

theblackvette

I went ahead and brought the article here:

Va-va-room: Z06 outguns Cobra R
By James R. Healey, USA TODAY

Automakers create high-performance specialty models to attract attention and to enhance other vehicles of the same brand by association with the flagship hot rod.

"There's a little Corvette in every Chevrolet," goes an internal Chevy slogan.

Just as interesting is the philosophical statement such cars make. Ford and Chevy, venerable rivals, offer a good example.

Ford's image machine is the Mustang Cobra R -- R for race. Stripped of everything unnecessary and weighty, such as air conditioning, radio and back seat, it is a Spartan machine meant for the track, but legal on the street.

James R. Healey

Past Test Drive columns
Discuss: This week's column, and give your own review
Go to Auto Track

Price: $54,995, and only 300 are planned this year. Cobra R reflects Ford's bias that extraordinary power and handling are elite features, even when delivered in a bare-bones wrapper.

Chevy, by contrast, is populist. Note the 2001 Corvette Z06, on sale since August.

Same power as the Cobra R -- V-8 engine rated 385 horsepower, 385 pounds-feet of torque, with same top-speed claim just north of 170 miles an hour. Same intent: "A no-compromises car you can drive every day and race every weekend," says Dave Hill, Corvette chief engineer.

But Z06 is priced less -- $47,500 at summer launch, bumped to $48,500 Sept. 15 when demand became obvious.

And the Corvette has all the amenities Cobra R lacks -- dual-zone, automatic climate control, fancy stereo, plenty of sound insulation, cushy leather bucket seats. "We didn't feel it was the right thing to do to make a car that wasn't a real car, that people couldn't use year-round," Hill says.

Cobra R's owner's manual warns against using the car in slick weather. Z06 has advanced electronic stability control and traction control to keep it roadworthy in winter. Stability systems can gently apply a brake at one wheel to pivot the car back into the desired line.

Odd name for the fiercest Vette until you know the heritage
The Z06 system, called Active Handling, responds more gently if it thinks you're skidding on ice than it would if you had entered a dry-pavement corner so fast the car started to spin out.

To keep the car light without deleting amenities, Z06ers trimmed here and there, even thinning the glass:

Titanium replaces steel in part of the exhaust system, saving 17.6 pounds.

A pressure regulator in the stability system is 3.5 pounds lighter than before.

Tires, though bigger than a standard Corvette's, weigh 23.4 pounds less.

As a result of such hairsplitting, Z06 keeps its comfort items, so imposes no privations once you pay the $8,005 price difference over a standard Corvette.

Plus, you might actually be able to buy a Z06. Hill says about 20% of Corvettes are that model -- that's 5,000 to 6,000 a year. And more would be made if the specialized hardware -- tires, exhaust, pistons, transmission and so on -- became available in greater numbers.

In everyday use, the only way the Z06 felt like the Cobra R was the Corvette's bumpy, jiggly ride. That's a product of its short-sidewall tires and especially taut suspension settings. There just wasn't much to absorb bumps. Driving enthusiasts won't mind; tender-tushed motorists will. Otherwise, Z06 was a honey.

Drop down into Z06's foamy bucket seats and you feel as if you're in a pure luxury car. The side bolsters are firmer, keeping you in place in those demanding corners without punishing your sitter.

Crank the engine -- the ignition slot is easily found on the dashboard instead of the steering column -- and the 5.7-liter, aluminum, pushrod-style V-8 grumbles to life. Pushrod engines are simpler, cheaper and narrower than the overhead-camshaft (OHC) design Ford uses. OHC engines theoretically will rev faster, get better fuel economy and deliver power more smoothly. But Ford hasn't hit all those targets.

Cobra R gets the same power as Z06 from less displacement -- 5.4 liters -- but it uses more fuel than Z06, for instance.

Stab the Corvette's clutch, expecting a fight, and be pleasantly surprised by the civilized effort and smooth engagement.

Ease out of the driveway and enjoy the remarkable low-speed poise of such a high-speed machine.

Push the gas, even a little, and light up at the sudden, yet smooth, power delivery.

Brakes, steering, radio, dashboard gauges and controls are all well-done, good-looking and pleasant to use.

The only ergonomic gripe is the gearshift lever. It sticks up so high, it's awkward to manipulate. That's because of the intrusive center backbone that makes Corvette so stiff and tight and contributes to its agility. It chews up about twice normal space.

Hill says the cumbersome shifter is a small price for the contribution the center backbone makes to the car's robustness: "Used to be, Corvette owners had to cope with squeaks and rattles after a while. This one holds together better."

Seems credible. The 2000-model Corvette -- predating the Z06 but nearly identical to the standard '01 model -- was well above average quality in the latest J.D. Power and Associates survey. Owners of Corvettes registered March and April told Power they had an average of 139 problems per 100 cars the first 90 days of ownership, tied with Lexus SC coupe. Industry average: 157.

Styling of the C5 (for fifth-generation Corvette), launched in 1997, has been controversial. The back is dramatically wide, no good for those who don't like big rumps. And the rear fenders look almost like something you'd see on a home-built kit car. The appearance is easier to take once you understand that form follows function (a definition of art), because the look was dictated by airflow and hardware considerations.

Z06 comes only in one body style, what Chevy calls the hardtop. It's a graceless lid over the passenger compartment. The flowing roofline of the so-called coupe, and the evergreen appeal of the convertible, wears better on the eye. Hill says the hardtop is the lightest, stiffest configuration, so it made the most sense for the ultra-performance version. Besides, Chevy was selling hardly any hardtops after investing in the tooling. Make the hardtop the only way to get the ultra-desirable Z06, and watch that body style sell fast. See your investment in tooling finally pay off.

To be clear: All hardtops are Z06s; all Z06s are hardtops.

Chevy emphasizes that Z06 is a separate model, not an options package as it was years ago, and says it has no plans to put Z06 hardware on coupes or convertibles.

If you flat don't like Vettes -- some people hate them -- Z06 won't resonate. But if you appreciate the extraordinary muscle that once let Detroit rule the auto world, and like yours with all the trimmings, Z06 is nonpareil.

An outstanding achievement.

theblackvette

The numbers don't match up either, but I understand a lot depends on the driver and the day of the test:
http://www.rsportscars.com/eng/cars/mustang_cobra.asp

2000 Ford SVT Mustang Cobra R

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Technical Specifications:
Engine
Type: V8
Displacement cu in (cc): 330 (5409)
Power bhp (kW) at RPM: 390(287) / 6250
Torque lb-ft (Nm) at RPM: 385(522) / 4250
Redline at RPM: 6600
Brakes & Tires
Brakes F/R: ABS, vented disc/vented disc
Tires F-R: 265/40 ZR18
Exterior Dimensions & Weight
Length × Width × Height in: 183.5 × 73.1 × 52.2
Weight lb (kg): 3589 (1628)
Performance
Acceleration 0-62 mph s: 4.4
Top Speed mph (km/h): 175 (280)
Fuel Economy EPA city/highway mpg (l/100 km): n.a.

Base Price: 2000 Ford SVT Mustang Cobra R - n.a.

2000 SVT Cobra R Produces 385 Horsepower

The all-new 2000 Ford SVT Mustang Cobra R, wearing its production Performance Red paint, was displayed for the first time at the Specialty Equipment Market Association's (SEMA) annual convention. Built with the race track in mind, the Cobra R features a 5.4L 32-valve V8 engine, solidifying the modular family of engines as the high-performance benchmark in Ford's lineup. The Cobra R V8 produces an estimated 385 horsepower and 385 foot pounds of torque. In order to keep this power on the ground, the Cobra R features exterior enhancements including a front air-splitter and tall rear deck spoiler, which create downforce for increased stability at track speeds.

Other differences to the Cobra R include the "power dome" hood, which was required in order to fit over the Cobra R's unique intake manifold. The Cobra R rides on 18-inch wheels shod with BFGoodrich g-Force KD tires, and a lowered suspension for enhanced handling.

Cobra R's interior changes include the addition of Recaro sport seats, and the removal of the radio, air-conditioner and back seat to save weight. A number of well-respected performance parts suppliers are working with SVT in the development of the Cobra R, including Brembo for the front brake rotors and calipers, Tremec for the 6-speed transmission, Eibach and Bilstein for suspension, and Borla for the exhaust.

There were a limited production of only 300 Cobra R models built in spring 2000, on the same line of the Dearborn Assembly Plant which produces the V6, GT, and Cobra Mustangs. The 2000 model is the third generation of the Cobra R, following the successful and still sought-after 1993 and 1995 Cobra R models.

The debut Cobra R, the 1993 model, was introduced as a competition package, and included unique wheels, suspension and cooling upgrades, chassis bracing and a higher-output version of the 5.0L HO V8 engine found in the '93 Cobra. Just 107 '93 Cobra Rs were produced.

The 1995 Cobra R (250 produced) was also a competition package, and featured a higher-output version of the 5.8 Windsor V8 engine, an upgraded cooling system, the Tremec 5-speed transmission, unique suspension tuning and 17 x 9-inch wheels.




[Modified by theblackvette, 11:34 AM 12/16/2003]

TTRotary

A guy brought out a Cobra R at our last track event (yes, the red ones). He usually drives a Viper in the race group and is very competitive. He was running in our group, which was primarily Vipers and four Vettes. The Cobra was pretty far off the pace...I was surprised given all the hoopla.

I spoke with the gentleman later. He had bought the car from a collector. He said he was really fighting the handling. The car is apparently pretty nose heavy and the front suspension was scrubbing the tires pretty badly. He also wasn't too thrilled about the IRS setup. To make matters worse, the water pump failed in the third session.

Don't get me wrong. It was plenty fast compared to most cars. It just didn't seem very competitive against the Vettes and Vipers. Just my 0.02.

TZL

http://www.caranddriver.com/article....rticle_id=3883

Car and Driver 2001 shootout between Cobra R, 2001 Z06, and Viper ACR

Page two:

"The Cobra returned the highest lateral acceleration on the skidpad (0.99 g) but the lowest lap time (1:38.7 at 92.1 mph vs. the Corvette's 1:36.3 at 95.4 mph and the Viper's 1:34.9 at 96.7 mph). "

theblackvette

I owned a SVT Cobra prior to the Z06.
No chance in the world the SVT would take the Z06.
I thought for sure the Cobra R would.
Looks like the R won't do it either!

O well!

dubya

My Brother has an SVT Cobra. He may be buying my Z this spring. Then EB here I come. :rofl:

Even if He doesn't buy it.......EB is on my mind now!!!!!! :smash: :smash:

theblackvette

What year is the SVT Cobra he has?
I had a 1998! Covertible!
It was a great car!

LT

It's not a Corvette!! :steering:

pwrshhftd

dude, i am not even responding to anymore of your off the wall posts.


Take a look at the link the guy had from car and driver magazine.

the cobra R in the hands of a professional beat the ACR viper AND the Z06 on lap times.

Now whther or not billy bob can outrun frank at the local track is up to billy bob and frank.

I would suggest you look elsewhere than USA today for your performance car comparison tests.

Of course the non enthusiast is goign to pick the z06. it has an air conditioner!

Old school chassis or not... the 2000 cobra R is a beast.

Ford got 1.01 g's out of the cobra.

As for explaining the 2000 cobra R, im not even goign to start.

You are fast building your post count with meaningless eidiculous posts on this forum, well to each his own i guess.


and for the record a 2000 cobra R is a far cry from a Jalopy butt 98 cobra convertible!!!!!!!!

theblackvette

Quote:

"You are fast building your post count with meaningless eidiculous posts on this forum, well to each his own i guess."

Many of my threads have stimulated good discussion. You are the only one whining. If you are not interested then don't respond! GROW UP!

:nopity