gstama

Has anyone come across a GT3.

On a Porsche forum they claim that the GT3 beat the Z06 at Nurburgring
7:56 for the Z16 vs 7:54 for the Porsche.

Check this out http://forums.rennlist.com/rennforum...5&pagenumber=1

:chevy

stingray454

I'm not surprised - the GT3 is an awesome ride. Too expensive, but impressive performer nonetheless. And 2 seconds isn't far off - close enough that it obviously comes down to driver skill.

Interesting reading that thread of what Porsche owners think of our Z06's. Seems most really respect the Z06's performance on the road course (as they should ;) ). There are a few completely biased people over there (most of them Europeans or Germans) who basically acknowledge the Z06 as a great performer, then call it a piece of crap in the same sentence :confused: :mad :crazy: :smash: It's kind of pathetic how biased they are.

I was a bit perplexed at how they all seem to slam the Z06's brakes as crap. I don't know how you can call brakes that halt the Z06 from 60-0 in 105 feet, matching the 911 Turbo, crap? :confused: They also seem to think the Z06's brakes overheat all the time on a road course. One person even mentioned a Z06 overheating his brakes at Willow Springs - a track that I've driven on.

I found the brake cooling to be excellent on the Z06 when running Willow Springs. Willow is a very fast track, and the speeds really help keep the brakes cool with the active brake cooling ducts. It may be different on a slower track with more braking and less air flow.

I'm no professional driver, but I ran my car hard on the track and experienced little to no brake fade, even after a full 35 minutes of hot laps in 100F+ heat. I did experience a bit of brake pad taper which basically required more pedal effort, but not overheating brakes.

Engine oil temps were another story, peaking at 295F. :eek: Hot, but not enough for me to shut it down.

I suspect these Porsche owners saw a Z06 go in early for cooling, really for too high engine oil or trans temps, not overheating brakes, and they just assumed it was for overheating brakes.


[Modified by stingray454, 11:07 PM 12/11/2003]

383LPE

Alot of drivers (newer) use the brakes too much, and experience fade. The guys that go out and buy a Z06 and hop on the track will learn to use the brakes less. I don't think the Z06 brakes are built as well as the GT3, and magazine testing numbers aren't great track truths.

A guy in our region just bought a new GT3 and I will be running into him during the season. I'll see first hand how fast they are against the Snake :)

C5Longhorn

These numbers don't surprise me. The GT3 is a great expensive car.

ivan111

Well in think that in a long track like Nurburgring the GT3 Ceramic brakes will be an advantage over the Z06 brakes because of the heat resistance......

But sometimes the numbers don't tell all the story in the recent Car and Driver comparison between the Ford GT, Ferrari Stradale and Porsche GT3 the GT3 had slightly better lap times than the Ferrari but the Stradale had better handling than the GT3 they say that the Porsches tail is too happy and you have to work hard making corrections to keep it on line.....

In the Ferrari Stradale you have to really work hard to provoke a tail slide....

So what the numbers don't tell is what the driver is dealing with....

QUIKAG

I ran a GT3 this past weekend at a local track, Motorsport Ranch. With the ceramic brakes and racing slicks, it was a beast. The driver was very, very good too. See my thread:
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=705843

Vette Lag

Well,

I don't have to preach to any of you guys, but just in case those Porche guys look at our forum, here I go;

My Z06; $47,395.00, 0.0% financing, $4000 off sticker, from $51,395. Take that, Porche people, probably paid 5-10K over sticker. I heard some people pay 50-100K over sticker for Modena's.

add: about 25K for LPE 427 puts about 525 HP to the wheels
add: 7K for a set of Baer or Brembo racing brakes
add: 5K for serious suspension mods
add: 5K for some awesome rims
add: 5K for some "interior beauty" and racing seats, Caravaggio maybe
add: another 5K for any goodies you guys can think of

Voila! $99, 395 bucks, quid, marks, Lire, whatever, for a car that will kill any car on this planet, this side of an Enzo, or a Carrera GT, maybe them too, for a 100K. Tell me about Yankee engineering while I am kickin your foreign butt! I love Porche's, Ferarri's, Ghini's, etc, but if you can't build a car for a lot more than $100K, than can't beat a Z06, than you got probs, big problems.

:hurray:

mikeo

:iagree: :flag :D Many will undoubtedly disagree, and that is fine, but IMHO, this is the way these cars really should be compared. Just my $.02 with a couple :flag :flag to boot!

Goody

I only wish that GM would offer the Brembo brake package as a "nicely" priced option on the new Z06.

rbartick

Well, I don't agree with this. I don't think you can compare a stock car to a car with close to 50k in mods. The modded car has no warranty, probably lost some drivability, and in the case of a theft or sale will lose its value.

The modded train of thought follows the lines of the Mustang guys saying they can mod and smoke a Vette for less total cash. Vette guys will always say, "Yeah, but you still have a Mustang". There is a certain pecking order for the various vehicles available today.


[Modified by rbartick, 2:24 PM 12/12/2003]

Doczo6

:iagree:
Compare stock to stock
Modded to Modded

kraff

Just by way of clarity, are we all talking about the same car? I get confused between the GT3 and the GT2 and took a look on the porsche website. The GT3 is normally aspirated 380 hp and only 285 torque car that weighs the same as the Z. The car has slightly bigger tires out back and a strut suspension and the site doesn't indicate the ability to get ceramic disc brakes. Doesn't seem like this car would be any faster.

GT2 however, is a whole different story. 477 and 472 with ceramics.

One other thing. When you try the Porsche configurator, it doesn't list the GT3 as a North American option, but does have the GT2 (at a starting price of $199, 000- ouch)

Just asking as I don't keep up much with the Porsche names and there is a big difference between these two cars. Quikag, could the car you ran at the track been a GT2? The ceramics would appear to be the difference unless the car was upgraded.

:cheers:

mikeo

No flames intended. I hear what you're saying, and I understand your train of thought. But, to me, comparing $50K stock with $120K stock is comparing apples and oranges to begin with. To me, if I was the Porsche owner, there would be no great victory in being able to say that my $120K stock is two tenths of a second better than your $50K stock. To me, it makes an awful lot of sense of point out that although that is true, for a relatively small amount of money, I could make my $50K stock as good as or better than your $120K stock. I just don't see how you can factor that out of the equation, especially when most of us purchased our Z06 with every intention of doing at least a few performance mods. If the Mustang guys want to say that too, let them say it. Maybe they have a point. But, look, everyone has their own opinion on this, and I respect all of those opinions and believe that they are all quite legitimate.

:cheers:

rbartick

It might be, Corvette guys do it to the Mustang guys all the time :)

Lets face it, in the auto industry we deal with a law of diminishing returns. The Vette isn't much faster than the SVT Cobra. The Viper & TT Porsche are not much faster than the Vette. The difference in the price of admission gets much steeper when you start to climb further up the ladder. :cheers:

mikeo

I completely agree. For me, this whole issue comes down to "Is it worth it to me?" I'm fortunate enough that if I wanted a Porsche, I could afford it. In fact, a number of my partners drive Porsches, and they're great cars. But, was the performance and some of the other more subjective factors like styling worth it to me at that higher price tag? For me, it wasn't. But, the reverse was also true. If I could mod a Mustang such that it was faster than a stock Z06, would that be worth it? Again, for me, it wasn't. I don't like Mustangs; never have. That's why we've seen posts and threads like this before. There's a lot of subjective factors that go into it, and everybody sees it a bit differently, as they should. Happy holidays.

Vette Lag

I was just making a point, mostly. But when those guys talk about the interior of a Z06, or the brakes, or etc., what I want to say is really, you do have to compare stock to stock. But, if my price tally comes in at least $70K lower than your car does, whadda ya want me to say? You can only purchase so much stuff, and make a decent profit for $50K, even if you are GM. So, the performance bargain of the century is, the C5 Z06! I know I love mine.

robz

It depends on what you mean by fast. Im assuming top speed. Ive seen many porsches and vipers brand new and old at the track and have never seen anyone of them ever break 12 sec in the 1/4 mile. It depends on what you want to do with the car. If its drag racing, a corvette or a cobra would be a better and faster choice than a porsche or viper IMO. However,I do realize this thread isnt geared toward the drag strip. Just my .02.

383LPE

I can't remember the last time I saw the Porsche club at the drag races. I think most P owners figure thier giving something up on the launch they are getting back in the twisties. You can be sure the newer Vipers are 12 sec capable. Just because someone doesn't run 12's does not mean the car can't.

LTC Z06

It's all the driver, period! Not to tute my own horn but once I was not far behind a very fast guy in a GT-3 at the Nurburgring. After we pulled into the parkplatz his brake fluid was boiling out of the reservoir!!!!!! He was trying to blame something on his car :rofl: I just smiled and walked away :yesnod: If you are scared on that course you will be VERY heavy on the brakes, I smoked my brakes a few times learning the 12 miles of the Green Hell. On the other hand I have been passed by the infamous Ring Mini, this crazy German has a mini cooper panel wagon with a Honda Vtech engine. He slides around every corner and will catch you and pass you, period. The fastest I ever did was an 8:30 on the "short" course probably would have been a 9:00 with the straights open. Once I was riding with my highly skilled amateur friend in his C5 (he has over 200 laps, taken multiple schools, etc.) We were passed by a Honda Civic vtech with 4 guys in it (shame) in the parkplatz we talked to the guy. He was a pro that had just won some national championship, grew up right next to the Ring, and complimented us on driving the "safe" line very well and fast. Bottom line, the GT-3 has race ready brakes and suspension, but it still comes down to the driver! :yesnod:

trumper Z06

:bb Track prep. levels the playing field for the Z06 very Quickly!

:D Changing tires, brake pads, fluid, lowering & a racing alignment... cars are very equal.

:lol: Now its all up to the DRIVER !!!