3.2TL

Can someone please let me know which is faster around a race track and give me the link or artcile to prove it? I have a friend who seems to think that the ONLY reason the 360 F1 beats the ZO6 around a racetrack is b/c of the paddle shift transmission. He thinks if u take the tranny out of the equation and they both use 6speeds then the ZO6 will win simply b/c it has MORE TORQUE.

Any response or information will be much appreciated.

SWCDuke

There is no definitive answer to this question because both cars are very closely matched. It comes down to the specific driver and track. Eventhough the F360 has little torque compared to the Z06 it probably has an advantage in exiting low speed corners because the rear weight bias will yield greater tractive effort.

It's POWER that accelerates a car, not torque, so the F360 better be in the right gear with 6000 revs on the clock or the Z06 will pull better out of a low speed corner. Because of the Z06' prodigious torque, it is less sensitive to gear selection than the F360.

I recall that one of the car mags did a track test of several sports cars including a Z06 and F360 at Buttonwillow within the last couple of years, but I can't remember the specfic publication or issue.

Maybe someone else can provide the reference.

Duke

MitchAlsup

Well, when you compare thrust at the rear wheels, you will find useful equality between the F360 and the Z06; since both are sub 3000 pounds and both near 400 HP.

The 4.41:1 rear end of the F360 makes up for its 280 lb-ft TQ as in:

4.41*280 == 1232

While the Z06 uses a 3.42:1 rear gear with 375 lb-ft

3.42*375 == 1282

The difference is on the order of 4%. Now factor in the rolling radius of the tires: F360 uses 275/35-18ZR for a rolling radius of 25.58" while the Z06 uses a 295/35-18 for a rolling radius of 26.13" making up 2% of the difference. At this point the cars are close enough that everything else matters {driver skill, shifing speeds, course layout,.....}. Now factor in 0.05 second shifts and on tracks where there is a lot of shifting, the F360 has an advantage. On tracks where only a couple of gears are used, the Z06 has no disadvantage.

Catch the Ferrari at any place on the track in the wrong gear and the Z06 wins, conversely, any bobble by the Z06 driver and the F360 wins. Under 80 MPH the Z06 has more absolute grip, however above 120 the Ferraris' aerodynamics add grip while the C5 looses grip. In addition the F360 has both 5th and 6th as useful high speed gears for Mulsaine straight speeds (1.e. above 150 MPH). There will be tracks wher the advantages of the Z06 will dominate, there will also be tracks where the advantages of the F360 will dominate. Most tracks will not have enough difference between the cars that the better driver will win more often than the better car.

In the hands of a typical "look at me I'm pretty fast" street driver with some track experience, the Z06 will beet the F360 most of the time.

OliverM5

Great post, but I believe the 02 Z06 has 400 lbs torque.

BIG LAW MAN

Yes they do.

The Z06 is lighter in weight and more powerful, therefore would and should win everytime given the same driver skill.

MelloYellow

I've run against the Modenas and have 3.42 MN6 420 FWHP and it's about even. It might pull 1/2 a car on me right now 'til I change my gears.

They should be a VERY close match.

TeamZ06

IMO the Modena wins hands down. Seen one campaigned on the west coast by an extremely competent autox driver, it was a totally awesome display of sight and sound. The Modena on Hoosiers vs. the Z06 on Hoosiers was no contest; most of the best SCCA autox drivers were in attendance. The SCCA won't even let the Modena run in the Stock autox class; it goes straight to ASP even in factory stock trim.

IMO the paddle shifter only really comes into play for downshifts, but a competent toe&heal driver can come close to matching it with a manual trans. There's not that much shifting on an autox anyways, so that part of the equation was ruled out that weekend. Also, simply comparing a peak hp/tq number means little to nothing; the area under the curve within the powerband section being used is what counts.

compare SS vs ASP results, if anything Z06's had more prep:

http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/na...o/results.html

not quite as many top drivers, think both classes got rained on during day 2:

http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/na...n/results.html

Pro Solo uses a christmas tree drag start, Z06's are much closer here which makes sense:

http://www.scca.org/amateur/solo2/pr...r/results.html



[Modified by TeamZ06, 5:20 PM 10/17/2002]

Dreamin

What about everything else, besides HP/TQ and fast shifting, that gets you around a race track???

That $150K buys you a serious race suspension, race brakes, and a killer aerodynamic setup (tunnels under the car for downforce)... the aerodynamics on the Z06 are all goofed up.

It was Road-and-track that did a back-to-back test, same driver, at Thunderhill... the modena was faster by a few seconds. I will post the issue date tonight.

BTW, the 360 is a hair lighter (3064lbs. vs. 3116lbs.)

Tom T.

Torque??? Who cares about torque?! I just want those cool flames that Oliver has!!! :cool:

TT :cheers:

raj

Here's a quote from pg. 118 of the July 2002 Automobile magazine that did a long term test on an '01 Z06: "Our Z06 was faster around Waterford Hills than a Porsche 911 Turbo and a Ferrari 360 Modena, on the same day, with the same driver - who asked not to be named (Mark Gillies)."
That, I think, says it all! :cool:

bpvette

Autox, did somebody say autox?

Mako

The cars are NOT "sub 3000lbs" and the '02 Z06 should beat the Modena every time with the same driver. The torque does make a difference. Add $10k in mods to the Z06 (Brembos, headers, intake and pcm tuning) and it crushes the prancing horse!

3.2TL

Thanks to everyone who has responded. I will forward this link on to him and let him rant some more. I also started the same thread on ferrari chat, so as to get both sides of the story. For the most part you guys both ferrari and ZO6 owners weren't that bias towards what you own. Both agree that it will be close depending on the driver.

As for the Road & Track magazine article about sibling rivalry where both are tested and the 360 with the F1 tranny won, i have that article, and this is what i was showing my friend, and he's saying that the only reason the car won was b/c of the F1 tranny. He's saying take the tranny our of the equation and get a regular 6spd 360 and the ZO6 wins hands down. He seems to think the only thing that matters is TORQUE. Like the above post said Torque isn't the only thing that matters, chassis, brakes, weight distribution etc. plays a big part in road racing. Once again thanks for the responses, and remember this was for a 6spd 360 comparison, NOT the F1.

QUIKAG

I raced a guy at a track in Oklahoma (Hallett) who had an F1 360 and he was a good driver, but my lowly :rolleyes: Coupe with BFG R1's could hang with his Hoosier equipped F1 360. Of the 20k miles on the 360, he said about 18k of them were track miles, yes 18,000! Anyway, I was pretty happy with my car after hearing how experienced he was. He was interested in my mods and was very surprised when I said I just had intake, headers, exhaust, and tires. :D :cheers:

Rebelskum

Just want to chime in here and say the 360 is a fine car. I've been to a few road courses with my '01 Z06 and had no trouble staying ahead of them or passing them coming out of the corners onto a front straight. That's the best place to get these guys because if they aren't in their power band like right away, well....

I ran into a friend of mine from High School, who shares one with his dad. He takes it out as much as he can to Sears Point, Laguna Seca, Thunderhill, Willowsprings....etc. He's got quite the setup.

But I still got him...hehehee..

A beautiful car though. Love em. :cheers:

kwillmorth

Road and Track did an article that included the two cars.

http://www.roadandtrack.com/features...?articleID=220

Ignore the bulk of the subjective :bs ratings in the article which put a Mitsubishi Evo II ahead of the ZO6 (by .3 points - what dweebs). The real-time road race track and skidpad data shows the ZO6, Modena and Porsche Turbo a very close match.

Doesn't matter. I love my ZO6, and drive it whenever I get a chance. However, if I had the extra coin laying around, I'd grab one in a heartbeat. The Modena does the same work as the ZO6, with a lot more finess, with that screaming Ferrari sound, and the looks of a super-model. :cheers:

Bertrand

That's only because of the extra $100K Modena drivers empty out of their wallets before getting behind the wheel! :flag :cheers:

C5Longhorn

Couldn't have said it better, I agree.

LT1pwrd'94

Mayhem

Why are they dweebs for rating the Lancer higher? It matches the Z06 in 0-60 and handling (if not surpasses due to the AWD), it's a few ticks slower in the quartermile but it also has 100+ less hp and costs roughly 20k less =)

If I could fit in a new upcoming Lancer I'd take a close look at it.