[Z06] decision making help Z06 or M3
10-09-2002, 09:54 AM
#1
Heel & Toe
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decision making help Z06 or M3
Hello all - have been following this site for some time now and need some decision making help. I preciously had a 96 corvette - loved that, drove a z06 and loved it. However I am having such a hard time deciding between the z06 or the M3. Any of you guys have both or had both for a period of time and can offer some constructive criticism. Which ever car I go with it would not be a daily driver. HELP! - the financing also makes the z0 look very attractive. - Forgive me If this discussion has been beaten to death - if some one can hook me up to a thread where it was discussed on this site previously it would be greatly appreciated
10-09-2002, 10:02 AM
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Burning Brakes
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (chee)
there's a guy on here that had an 01z then a 02 m3, now back to a 03z. i'm sure he could tell you all about it. i can't remember who it was though :eek:
10-09-2002, 10:35 AM
#3
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Do you mean me?
I had a 2001 Z06, then a 2001 M3, now I'm back to a 2003 Z06.
Here's what I can tell you:
The M3 is an amazing vehicle. The build quality FEELS excellent. The interior construction is much more "solid" than the Z06. Very easy to drive the M3 fast. BMW service is USUALLY topnotch.
Here's why I switched back to a Z06:
I love the good ol' American V8 power. There's nothing else like it. The feel and sound of the Z06 engine . . .. . .what can I say. It's amazing.
And here's the rub with the M3: There is a design flaw in the M3 engine. There have been roughly 300+ engine failures for the M3. And no one can determine what is causing the failures. And they're not just little failures--we're talking catastrophic, engine-pieces-flying kind of failures. The failures tend to center around a narrow production cycle, but there have been plenty of failures outside of that production period. And from what I have seen, the 02s are even failing.
Here are some websites about the issue. They detail the 100 or so failures that are DOCUMENTED on the M3 forum. All different mileage, both transmissions, different usage, etc. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason behind which engines fail.
http://members.roadfly.org/jason/m3engines.htm
http://yoy.com/auto/m3_failure_index.html
http://www.mfailure.com/
If you have any specific questions, please feel free to email me.
ironnipplez@bellsouth.net
Here's what I can tell you:
The M3 is an amazing vehicle. The build quality FEELS excellent. The interior construction is much more "solid" than the Z06. Very easy to drive the M3 fast. BMW service is USUALLY topnotch.
Here's why I switched back to a Z06:
I love the good ol' American V8 power. There's nothing else like it. The feel and sound of the Z06 engine . . .. . .what can I say. It's amazing.
And here's the rub with the M3: There is a design flaw in the M3 engine. There have been roughly 300+ engine failures for the M3. And no one can determine what is causing the failures. And they're not just little failures--we're talking catastrophic, engine-pieces-flying kind of failures. The failures tend to center around a narrow production cycle, but there have been plenty of failures outside of that production period. And from what I have seen, the 02s are even failing.
Here are some websites about the issue. They detail the 100 or so failures that are DOCUMENTED on the M3 forum. All different mileage, both transmissions, different usage, etc. There doesn't seem to be any rhyme or reason behind which engines fail.
http://members.roadfly.org/jason/m3engines.htm
http://yoy.com/auto/m3_failure_index.html
http://www.mfailure.com/
If you have any specific questions, please feel free to email me.
ironnipplez@bellsouth.net
10-09-2002, 10:49 AM
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (rutiger)
These discussions or arguments go on all the time, but there's really no way to win or lose this. It's such a personal choice. No one can deny that they are both great cars. Alot of things to consider, such as:
Is this going to be your only car? Are you going to have to drive it through rain and snow all year long?
Do you have a family? How are they going to get around? And again, do you have or will you get any other vehicles?
What is your car history and your tendencies? Some people strongly lean towards American cars. Others really lean towards Japanese or European. For alot of people, that has alot of influence on how good they will feel about the car once they get it, no matter how it operates. Have you test driven both?
They are both great cars. I love my 02 Z06. It is an amazing car. I just want to drive it all the time. Takes me three times longer to get home from work than it should. But then one of my coworkers, like I said above, leans towards European. So he has an M3, a Boxster, and a X5 that he loves. Course, me and everyone else at work knows mine can kick all of his buttes! :D . And then I've got a Ram 4X4 Quad Cab for inclement weather.
Is this going to be your only car? Are you going to have to drive it through rain and snow all year long?
Do you have a family? How are they going to get around? And again, do you have or will you get any other vehicles?
What is your car history and your tendencies? Some people strongly lean towards American cars. Others really lean towards Japanese or European. For alot of people, that has alot of influence on how good they will feel about the car once they get it, no matter how it operates. Have you test driven both?
They are both great cars. I love my 02 Z06. It is an amazing car. I just want to drive it all the time. Takes me three times longer to get home from work than it should. But then one of my coworkers, like I said above, leans towards European. So he has an M3, a Boxster, and a X5 that he loves. Course, me and everyone else at work knows mine can kick all of his buttes! :D . And then I've got a Ram 4X4 Quad Cab for inclement weather.
10-09-2002, 11:34 AM
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (ShawnR)
Is this going to be your only car? Are you going to have to drive it through rain and snow all year long?
Given that this would NOT be a dialy driver, I'd say to go with the Z06. When that beautiful Saturday morning rolls around, I'd want to hop into a Z and go driving. It's low, and sleek, and fast, and draws a ton of attention. It's recognized everywhere as the top of the heap. It just strikes me more as that special "second car" you'd want to pull out of your garage...
-Kirk
10-09-2002, 11:58 AM
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (KMeloney)
Shawn -- looks like in the original post that this car will NOT be a daily driver, which means to me that he has something else to drive (or takes the bus often). LOL
Alright, maybe I missed that part. Sorry :bb In that case. Go with the Z06!
Alright, maybe I missed that part. Sorry :bb In that case. Go with the Z06!
10-09-2002, 12:04 PM
#7
Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (ShawnR)
I was in the same delima as you. I have always loved M3's.
I made my choice and decided to go with the Z06.
Here is why:
- it is not my daily driver, therefore i have something else for the ulgy winters of MI (if this car were to be my only driver, i would have gotten the M3, and it is more practical)
-I LOVE fast cars, i dont think i need to say more on that one.
-persoanlly, i think the Z06 is one of the best looking cars on the road.
-I thought about it, and i asked myself.."Would i want to pull up to a Z06 in my M3 at a stop light?" and that is a NO NO. :smash: :smash: :smash:
good luck with you decision.
:cheers:
I made my choice and decided to go with the Z06.
Here is why:
- it is not my daily driver, therefore i have something else for the ulgy winters of MI (if this car were to be my only driver, i would have gotten the M3, and it is more practical)
-I LOVE fast cars, i dont think i need to say more on that one.
-persoanlly, i think the Z06 is one of the best looking cars on the road.
-I thought about it, and i asked myself.."Would i want to pull up to a Z06 in my M3 at a stop light?" and that is a NO NO. :smash: :smash: :smash:
good luck with you decision.
:cheers:
10-09-2002, 01:52 PM
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (Zlicious)
The new M3 is such an awesome car. They look mean as hell to. If it were me, I would get a 02 Z06 Electron Blue w/ Mod red interior :yesnod: . However if it was a M5 it would make my decesion a little bit harder. The M5 is one bad machine. But I would probably still go with the Z06
10-09-2002, 02:19 PM
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (chee)
Chee, are you the one that emailed me. If so, sorry I didn't get back to you...
I have had both as well. An 02 JB M3 (no SMG) and now an 02 TR Z06.
HARD decision. The final days before I traded in the M were fraught with soul searching!
A few things that made the decision easier:
TORQUE - One area I always felt the M was lacking in. With 265 some odd ft/lbs (or whatever it was) it just wasn't enough to glue me to the back of my seat. No slouch by any means, just nothing like the Z. I also found the high revving engine to be a bit twitchy. It was sometimes tough to hold a controlled slide around a sharp corner as I often came up on the revs too quick and slid the ar$e end out. For me, the Z is much easier to drive fast. Guess is just depends on the driver.
HP - See above :D
Traction Control - An ever more important feature with such powerful cars, I find the Z's traction control is superior to the M's. With the M, if you got out of line, it stopped you instantly, sometimes very abruptly. With the Z, you can kick it into competition mode, burn the tires off the line and slide a nice arc around each corner. You will feel the active handling (and see it) kick in, but it wont stop you altogether. You can still kick the tail reeeeeaal niiiiice!
Fit and Finish - I will agree with IronNips that the M felt like an engineering marvel. Built like, well a German tank, I guess. Very solid. The interior was solid as well although a bit spartan. I have since found I actually like the Z's interior more. The climate controls are perfect and the HVAC system as a whole works great. 5 months and not a single rattle either. My M had the HK rattle from day one and it never went away :confused:
Appearance - I have wanted a vette since I first saw one. Always loved them... The M's look is very prestigious and aggressive at the same time. A beautiful car. The JB was real fun to keep clean :(
HUD - Some people don't seem to care for this option but I love it. It is extremely useful during hard driving and helps keep your speed down in the double digits during normal cruising. I never take my eyes off the road anymore.
DIC - Driver Information Center, if you didn't know. Very handy! Things that you would need to take the M to the dealer for can be programmed in your driveway. You can also list out any error codes the car may throw without any additional equipment.
Blah, blah, blah, I could go on forever! God I love my car!! I find myself always looking for an excuse to get out and cruise now. With the M, I had that feeling for the first few months, then it kinda wore off. I always wondered if I would have felt the same if I had opted for the SMGII option. :confused: I still can't get enough of the head snapping torque though! With the weather getting so cool and dry up here in the NorthEast, the car is just getting better and better.
It is totally a personal decision. Both are gorgeous machines. Just buy one of each and your guaranteed to be happy!! :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
:cool: :cheers: :cool:
I have had both as well. An 02 JB M3 (no SMG) and now an 02 TR Z06.
HARD decision. The final days before I traded in the M were fraught with soul searching!
A few things that made the decision easier:
TORQUE - One area I always felt the M was lacking in. With 265 some odd ft/lbs (or whatever it was) it just wasn't enough to glue me to the back of my seat. No slouch by any means, just nothing like the Z. I also found the high revving engine to be a bit twitchy. It was sometimes tough to hold a controlled slide around a sharp corner as I often came up on the revs too quick and slid the ar$e end out. For me, the Z is much easier to drive fast. Guess is just depends on the driver.
HP - See above :D
Traction Control - An ever more important feature with such powerful cars, I find the Z's traction control is superior to the M's. With the M, if you got out of line, it stopped you instantly, sometimes very abruptly. With the Z, you can kick it into competition mode, burn the tires off the line and slide a nice arc around each corner. You will feel the active handling (and see it) kick in, but it wont stop you altogether. You can still kick the tail reeeeeaal niiiiice!
Fit and Finish - I will agree with IronNips that the M felt like an engineering marvel. Built like, well a German tank, I guess. Very solid. The interior was solid as well although a bit spartan. I have since found I actually like the Z's interior more. The climate controls are perfect and the HVAC system as a whole works great. 5 months and not a single rattle either. My M had the HK rattle from day one and it never went away :confused:
Appearance - I have wanted a vette since I first saw one. Always loved them... The M's look is very prestigious and aggressive at the same time. A beautiful car. The JB was real fun to keep clean :(
HUD - Some people don't seem to care for this option but I love it. It is extremely useful during hard driving and helps keep your speed down in the double digits during normal cruising. I never take my eyes off the road anymore.
DIC - Driver Information Center, if you didn't know. Very handy! Things that you would need to take the M to the dealer for can be programmed in your driveway. You can also list out any error codes the car may throw without any additional equipment.
Blah, blah, blah, I could go on forever! God I love my car!! I find myself always looking for an excuse to get out and cruise now. With the M, I had that feeling for the first few months, then it kinda wore off. I always wondered if I would have felt the same if I had opted for the SMGII option. :confused: I still can't get enough of the head snapping torque though! With the weather getting so cool and dry up here in the NorthEast, the car is just getting better and better.
It is totally a personal decision. Both are gorgeous machines. Just buy one of each and your guaranteed to be happy!! :yesnod: :yesnod: :yesnod:
:cool: :cheers: :cool:
10-09-2002, 02:43 PM
#10
Heel & Toe
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (chee)
Thank you all - I have been in a quandry over this always leaning towards the z06 - i think my mind is 98% made up - i will keep u informed as to what happens - now i just need one for the right price
10-10-2002, 01:08 AM
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Burning Brakes
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (Mako)
Having competed in several BMW's prior to the Z06, nothing can come close to the responsiveness and driver-connected feel of the BMW. However, come to the autocross at the BMW plant in Spartanburg, SC on Oct. 20 and you will be quickly convinced to buy the Z06; the M3 is no competition.
Mark
Mark
10-10-2002, 01:43 AM
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (chee)
by the vette vettes rule dont be fooled with import power it isnt quite as fast even if it is nice
10-10-2002, 05:01 AM
#14
Team Owner
Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (chee)
Just went through the EXACT same situation. I bought the Z06, and I'm VERY happy that I did. :yesnod:
10-15-2002, 02:30 AM
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (Ryan Bell)
I know what you are going throguht right now. I love my 01 Z and the M3 is such an awesome car in other respetcs so I bought one also. The M3 can go fast, I have had it up to about 172MPH so far (I live in Germany) but it takes some time to get there, the Z06 will get to 170-180MPH in a shorter amount of time with pinning you in your seat acceleration feeling. The Z06 is brutal compared to the M3. I have done both SMG activated to level 6 and DSC off, to get the fastest acceleration but the Z06 will beat it anytime.
By the way, the Z06 on the HockenheimRing will beat the M3 hands down and don't forget the sound the Z06 makes as you are autocrossing, the Z06 sounds like a racecar, I have some vids of my last Hockenheim bout, basivcally I was playing cat and mouse with the Porsche GT3 and a RUF around the road coarse, the M3's were all passed easily.
BUT, the M3 makes a great touring car with some exceptional characteristics, I have every bell and whistle that you could get in the M3, cabrio, navigation, SMG, winter package, Xenon lights, hard top, it is quiet for long trips and makes for an easier ride for exteneded trips, when you are with the wife, you may want to talk instead of listening to the sound of the engine.
Basically I like both cars for hwat they do differently, the Z06 for racing and all out in your face performance and the M3 for its luxury and other automotive strong points...
Nick
By the way, the Z06 on the HockenheimRing will beat the M3 hands down and don't forget the sound the Z06 makes as you are autocrossing, the Z06 sounds like a racecar, I have some vids of my last Hockenheim bout, basivcally I was playing cat and mouse with the Porsche GT3 and a RUF around the road coarse, the M3's were all passed easily.
BUT, the M3 makes a great touring car with some exceptional characteristics, I have every bell and whistle that you could get in the M3, cabrio, navigation, SMG, winter package, Xenon lights, hard top, it is quiet for long trips and makes for an easier ride for exteneded trips, when you are with the wife, you may want to talk instead of listening to the sound of the engine.
Basically I like both cars for hwat they do differently, the Z06 for racing and all out in your face performance and the M3 for its luxury and other automotive strong points...
Nick
10-15-2002, 05:47 AM
#16
Melting Slicks
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (AutobahnZ06GT)
I have some vids of my last Hockenheim bout, basivcally I was playing cat and mouse with the Porsche GT3 and a RUF around the road coarse, the M3's were all passed easily.
10-15-2002, 11:08 AM
#17
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (Fast Lane)
Considered the M3 very seroiusly when I traded my o1 vette vert in for the 03 Z06. Both great cars but I wanted the extreme performance of the Z06. They only two things I really liked over the Zwas the paddle shift and the nicer interior of the BMW. Other then that the vette's exterior appeals to me more and the all out performance of the Z really did it for me. After making the decsion I heard about the M3 engine failure and I am sure glad I didn't have to deal with that. One reason I traded the 01 vert was because of the oil consumption issue in the 01 and some prior year vettes but that was cleared up in 02 so no worry there. Personal choice, go for what appeals to you more. Good luck :cheers:
[Modified by edv2122, 10:10 AM 10/15/2002]
[Modified by edv2122, 10:11 AM 10/15/2002]
[Modified by edv2122, 10:10 AM 10/15/2002]
[Modified by edv2122, 10:11 AM 10/15/2002]
10-15-2002, 11:32 AM
#18
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Re: Do you mean me? (IronNipplez)
I (pre)ordered an M3 two years ago, but when it finally came time to pick it up, I had the same hesitation because of the engine problems that people had been reporting. I have driven a friends M many times, and loved it, but ended up getting a 330 Ci to go along with the '02 Z. I am glad that I did. I sleep easier at night not having to worry about the engine blowing.
In a year or two, when they work out the bugs, I will go grab a nice M to go along with the Z.
In a year or two, when they work out the bugs, I will go grab a nice M to go along with the Z.
10-15-2002, 11:40 AM
#19
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (chee)
I was choosing between an 2002 Corvette coupe or a M3. I drove both and chose the one that made me the happiest. I haven't regretted my choice since then and love my appreciate my corvette more and more each day.
But only you can decide which you like better. have you driven both?
But only you can decide which you like better. have you driven both?
10-15-2002, 12:00 PM
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Re: decision making help Z06 or M3 (tbrewing)
I would go with the Z06 for sure. Others have mentioned the problems with the M3 engine and the failures it has been having. Especially if this is going to be your "fun car" and not your daily you gotta go with the Z06.
The 0% going on right now...you just can't beat that.
Another thing to keep in mind is Audi's upcoming RS4 and RS6. While it may not be unadulterated raw American horse it is refined like the M3 but with much more horsepower. 450 if I recall.
[Modified by SOMLS1, 10:01 AM 10/15/2002]
The 0% going on right now...you just can't beat that.
Another thing to keep in mind is Audi's upcoming RS4 and RS6. While it may not be unadulterated raw American horse it is refined like the M3 but with much more horsepower. 450 if I recall.
[Modified by SOMLS1, 10:01 AM 10/15/2002]