Marksman14

I come on the board maybe every other day and all I keep seeing is posts about the 03 cobra vs the Z06.

Just wondering why the same topic is being beaten to death.

Fact is, Ford has to supercharge EVERY car that they want to keep up with GM/mopar cars. Personally, I'd just buy a 99 or 01 cobra for 15k, supercharge it, and I have an 03 for a hell of alot less money, but wait, people have already been doing that. Supercharged cobra's are nothing new. Supercharged stangs are nothing new. Saleen, roush, They've been doing it for quite some time, but it was never a big deal until now. They're big, weigh a ton, and my stratus R/T will spank them on a road coarse, despite the FWD disadvantange.

Oh wow. A supercharged mustang. Thats original...give me a break. Personally I think its a great car. I dont mind Fords at all, they're cars just like GM's. But the point is, comparing one to a Z06 is nuts. Comparing it to a C5 is nuts. Comparing it to a ZR1 or a LT1/4 is nuts too. Just because it may end up being faster in a straight line...who cares. Take any 84+ corvette out on a road coarse with a mustang and see where the better times come in. Thats what a corvette is all about. Its an all around package. Great handling, great speed, great comfort, ease of driving, and a damn cool appearance. A mustang, I personally like the looks of it,
and some of them are fast, but in a straight line. Two different classes of cars.

I can make a yugo spank a ferarri, but again, who cares. It gets old after you do it once, and you still own a yugo.

A Corvette is a sports car. A mustang is a muscle car, which more resembles a large boat. Its big, its heavy, and it goes fast in one direction. Wait till you see one take a turn.

Reminds me of a "race" that happened out near the elgin-ohare a few months ago. Guy in a supercharged 99 stang challenged a guy in a viper to a race. They took their cars on the elgin ohare, atleast the viper did. The stang decided to try and keep up around the on-ramp, and never even made it on the elgin-ohare. Well, I guess he did, upside down and on fire and in the middle of oncoming traffic.

I cant tell you how many bleachy haired-backwards/upsidedown visor wearing 16-19 year olds I see driving mustangs around here. Its quite funny.

So point is, who cares. Vettes were made for a raceway, stangs (IN MY AREA) seem to be made for made as a penile subsitute for lacking teenagers who think a fast car will get them laid because they can go fast in one direction. 99% of the mustangs around here are "modified" with exaust and hair bleach. However the other 1% that own them...do them right, and some of them are pretty quick. But a majority...and now the supercharged version comes out. Ok, great. Well, the price tag takes care of the hair bleach and the visors, and the small 1% that actually like mustangs enough to buy one over a corvette may be interested. People who drive mustangs (whom I have talked to) buy them simply because they are a nice performing car for the price. Which they are. 260hp for 20k aint a bad deal at all. But 390 for 35k? Welp, count in inflation, and wait till we see them selling for 40+. Its going to happen, alot of you have already seen it for yourselves. Thats getting into Z06 territory. I can't really see a large group of enthusiasts who will opt for a 03 cobra if overall "peformance" is concerned. The mustang is a great car, but not for 40k. A muscle car is supposed to be affordable and fast. This is far from it for the average person.


The new cobra is no different. Supercharged stangs are a dime a dozen around here. They still get spanked by vettes, despite claims of 400+hp. Only difference is now, instead of paying 25k for a very nice mustang GT and 5k for a supercharger, you can get the package from the factory for 5k more, and after inflation, god only knows how much more.

You guys are making a huge deal out of a supercharged mustang, a concept which has been around for years. Can you honeslty say you know of many people who will even bother racing that leave their vettes stock? I have not seen one bone stock vette driver that races. And I sure havent seen any stock Z06's around here, and those who are, wouldnt race it anyways.

Seems were faster anyways based on the stories, so who cares? Its a supercharged mustang. Its a great car, but you guys still dont have anything to worry about. Vette owners and stang owners who buy their car because it is what they want (not what they can afford) are two totally different groups of people. Vettes were made for twisties and haulin butt. Mustangs/F-bodies are exactly the same minus the twisties. So you guys have nothing to worry about. You shouldnt be street racing either. So take it to a 1/4 mile track and if you win great, if not, who cares. Invite them to a REAL race track and see what happens once you try and move 3600lbs around some turns at high speeds. I've seen that already, and it ended horribly.

I on the other hand drive a 95 LT1 convertible auto. But, I didnt buy it to race it ;-)

Alright, my pointless rant is done. I expect alot of views but not alot of replies and am guessing this post will be buried in the next few hours. But I had to say it.

Marksman14

Gah. For personal protection, flame suits on and damnnit im not a troll. :nono: :lol:

The One

That's one monster post for someone who's wondering what all the fuss is about. :crazy: :lol: Feel better? :D

JC

Racer

I agree. As I have stated before, my wife thinks the Mustang is cute. :rolleyes: The two leading purchasers of Mustangs are women and guys under 25. It is a pony car that has no business being mentioned in the same sentence as Corvette! :smash: :smash: Who cares if it can do point A to point B somewhat close behind the Z06. My buddies Chevette with the 454 will blow the doors off the Z06, does that make it worthy to be mentioned in the same sentence for comparison with "Americas Sports car" NOT!! There is so much more in making a world class sports car. the Mustang falls way short!
Their naturally aspirated motors suck, so they bolt on superchargers to get their HP. I will give them credit for one thing......finally being able to say their fastest car..........is no longer a truck! :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :reddevil


[Modified by racer44, 4:48 PM 7/14/2002]

McRat

I used to run a lightly mod'd SS Camaro (smog stock) AutoX and Drag.

Seldom would ANY Ford keep up to the Camaro in the twisties, hell I've run better laps than many Vipers and 911s!

Let me tell you... The Z06 is a WEAPON!!! It would crap all over my SS in the corners, and has pretty good acceleration to boot.

I'm VERY glad I didn't get the stang, which can only best a Camaro in a straight line, and not by much. Z06??? We'll see... Doesn't look good for the pony guys though.

Marksman14

Yes I feel better :lol:

Marksman14

I laugh though. I read the article in MM&FF and couldnt stop laughing.

The cobra has a fricken supercharger and can only get about .4 sec on a plain old SS camaro. Slap a supercharger on a camaro, and it will take that supercharged cobra by OVER A FULL SECOND.


I remember something like "finally the mustang has come out on top of the camaro". Well sorry bud, youre comparing an 02 to an 03. Compare the same years and see what happens. There is no 03 camaro and if there was, I bet it would have gotten a power increase and edged out the 03 stang. I just cant wait til the 5th gen camaro comes out and makes more NA power than the FI stang makes
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Sorry. I cant stop laughing! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Tom Steele

It is now! ;)

I think a lot of folks say they don't care, but they aren't gonna like it when they get beat. Or maybe it'll be back to the days of the Mustang guys (who, in my experience, consider the Vette to be a cool car) wondering why none of the Corvettes will race them.

It's dangerous to race in a straight line on the street, but for the most part, people do it pretty often without a problem. It's a fun way to compete with someone.

Racing twisty on the street is pretty much insane. It's rare you can do it. So, better practice pretending you don't see the Cobras...

So Mustangs are ONLY ALLOWED to race Camaros and Firebirds. And Corvettes are only allowed to race Vipers (and do they look at us the way some C5 owners look at Mustangs)?

I think that is nuts. You can compare anything to anything. And you can break it down into categories.

It's fine if you say, "I compared them and the Cobra is cheaper than a Corvette and competitive with the C5's in a straight line, but they are heavy and not as good in a turn, so I'll stick with the C5."

But to say they aren't to be compared at all is just chickening out in my not so humble opinion.

I have no doubt that the Mustang is going to have a tougher time in the turns, but they are trying to improve that, and they have definitely made some steps in the right direction.

If they had put the thing on a diet and allotted $3,000 in sticker price for weight reduction, they Cobra would be very frightening to even Z06's.

Where are they gonna start? You donating C5's to anyone? I started with sneaking out my dad's 1965, 289 3 speed manual tranny Mustang and skipping school.

My first new car out of college was a 1988 Mustang LX 5.0. It cost about $14k and I could afford it. Next was a 1993 Mustang Cobra. I had looked at Corvettes, since they had just bumped the hp and really gotten the C4 platform into it's home stretch. But a career change lowered my income and I decided to save some serious cash and take the 93 Cobra instead for $21k.

When my finances righted themselves, I finally got my first Corvette - a 2000 6-speed coupe. And now I have a new Z06.

So I don't have the fanatical loyalty to the Corvette that some folks have. I'll buy whatever makes the most sense to me. And I did choose the Z06, but I won't sit back and tell GM, "Hey, it's all right if Cobras can smoke us in a straight line because "they can't be compared to us anyway."" I want GM to consider the Cobra an issue and address it.

So what? A lot of C5 guys have their corvette's supercharged. Are they "cheating" or thrown out of the fold because of it? Who cares how you get the hp?

Thanks dad! ;)

A real race? Ha ha, tell it to Don Garlits. Or even a lot of forum members. Guess what guys, you haven't been real-racing after all.

Here's the deal. I own a Z06. I cast my vote with $45k+ off force behind it. You know where I stand. But I don't understand the needless snobbery towards Mustang owners. It just doesn't serve a good point, and makes all of us look rude.

EB_Z_WIFE

Ahem.... sorry to burst your bubble but I raced stock LT-1s and LS1s and plan to race the stock Z06 we just got also.

johnboy00

Tom,

The people who complain about being compared to Mustangs are either snobs or Chevy freaks who think anything that ever came from Dearborn is a p.o.s. Unfortunately, the complainers most often fall into the snob category, because the Chevy freaks usually can't afford a new Vette. :lol:



[Modified by johnboy00, 12:04 AM 7/15/2002]

Racer

:rolleyes: Ah no, not a snob :mad Just stating facts! :boxing

johnboy00

"It is a pony car that has no business being mentioned in the same sentence as Corvette! Who cares if it can do point A to point B somewhat close behind the Z06."

These are facts?

A stock 03 Cobra can hang with a stock 02 Corvette coupe (MN6) in a 1/4 mile drag race. Add a $35 pulley to the 03 Cobra's supercharger, and it can hang with a Z06. Oh, but we can't mention any of this, because a Corvette is a Corvette and a Cobra is just a Mustang. :lol:

And you think nobody cares about point A to point B, when the two points are connected by a straight road? Hmm, I see lots of street "kills" and drag strip results posted here and elsewhere, not so many lap times.

Get off your high "horse" (and pardon the pun).

Racer

You just don't get it, but that doesn't surprise me. I guess because a Z06 can stay within earshot of a Modena 360 or a Lamborghini from point A to point B it is in the same over all league as them??? As I stated earlier, seems you don't seem to understand about true sports cars, :rolleyes: There is more to a true sportscar than getting from point A to point in a straight line first
:nopity :seeya


[Modified by racer44, 11:37 PM 7/14/2002]

RandyB

Marksman,

Someone just ran 11.90's with an '03 Cobra on slicks with just exhaust changes. It was in the latest 5.0 Magazine. I believe it was an 11.92@118 mph. It had a Bassani catalytic X-pipe and cat-back exhaust, and a K+N filter. It dynoed 400 rwhp also with the minimal changes...

So, I guess all of the fuss may be about the potential these cars have with few mods, like the Ford contingent has been saying all along. Why does it matter how Ford does this(supercharging)? I think the only thing that matters is that they do it.

In bone-stock form, it's obviously not as fast as a stock Z06 though, as most competent drivers can only muster mid to high 12's in this heat. Just wait until the fall is here and see what they are running!

That said, I still would rather have a Z06 though.

Randy

ZO6Les

Racer44,

I am with you all the way on this. I think the new Cobra is a fine "pony car" that with tweaks (increasing boost etc.) will keep up with a stock Z06. I do not plan to hide in fear of them. I don't believe the Cobra should be compared to the Vette any more htan I believe a Camaro should - so throw out the "Ford bashing" crap that some hide behind. Bottom line is the Cobra is not a sports car. The Vette is, so is the Viper. That is why we compare our cars to the Viper, because they are both 2 seater SPORTS cars.

So if the 03 Cobra floats your bubble great - if I was considering a new pony car to replace my Trans Am (especially since there will be no 03 T/A) then the Cobra would be on my shopping list. If I bought one I would not pretend it is something it's not - i.e. a sports car.

Les

stingray454

I guess a lot of the rivarly with the '03 Cobra is a lot of the Mustang guys have been bashing the Z06 by saying its a rip off being that they can buy a new Cobra and for substantially less than $50k have a car that is just as quick as a Z06 or quicker. Now of course this is a really naive comment, as the Z06's qualities extend far beyond straight line acceleration.

My viewpoint is, let Mustang owners think what they want to think. The Z06 is a superior performing car all around, and at $50k, is a great value to me.

I like the new '03 Cobra and its a fine car for what it is and for its price. Sure its overweight, doesn't handle as well or brake as well as the Z06, but its $15k less. If it had all the qualities of the Z06, it wouldn't be selling for $35k.

johnboy00

Ah, so if you owned a Ferrari, you'd be saying that the Z06 shouldn't be mentioned in the same sentence with a 360 Modena.

SNOB! :lol:

Racer

:rolleyes: :seeya

johnboy00

:seeya ( :cheers: )

Roy Romano

Tom,

My first car out of school was the 88 GT. I remember finding a used 87 C4 convertible for a little more, but the insurance would have been $4500 a year, so I went with the Mustang. I test drove everything first. The thing that sold me on the Mustang was that despite its weaknesses, it was a blast to drive. It was easy to throw around and I could oversteer through the corners to my heart's content. The 5.7 Liter IROC was fast too, but nowhere near as fun to me. Sure, my 88 Mustang was no Corvette, but it had a higher fun factor than many cars at twice its price (e.g., Supra Turbo).

The whole Mustang thing doesn't interest me that much anymore. I feel like I've been there and done that and I just wouldn't put up with one for several reasons, primarily comfort related.

If I were 22 again and buying a car for the first time, I think I'd pass on the current Mustang. I'd probably go for a WRX or S2000 if I couldn't afford a Corvette. Ford would have to make some major changes to sell me, but who knows, maybe Mustangs are still a blast to drive. Just because a car isn't as fast around the track doesn't mean it cannot be seriously fun. This is just my opinion, but the car that is fastest around the track isn't always the most fun to drive.

-RR


[Modified by Roy Romano, 11:24 AM 7/15/2002]