[Z06] Let's write GM re known Z06 design defects (trans temp, oil temp), JOIN IN !!!!!!
06-11-2002, 12:30 PM
#1
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Let's write GM re known Z06 design defects (trans temp, oil temp), JOIN IN !!!!!!
Looks like my Z06 will be unusable in the summer due to "HIGH TRANS TEMP" problem, high oil temperature problem and oil on air filter problem. Haven't run on track at temps above 85 but oil temp is in the 290s if outside temp is above 70-75. Get "HIGH TRANS TEMP" alarm if I run for more than 15-20 minutes with outside temp in low 80s. Oil on air filter any time if I run high rpms for 5-10 seconds.
GM knows of these problems-they even have a GM transmission cooler kit available-but there goes your warranty!!!
If this was BMW or Porsche they would not issue a recall but would fix the problems for customers who complained.
Anyway does someone know who and where(email/smail) we could write to express our concerns----we bought Z06s for its performance, now we can't use it most of the year.
Maybe if enough of us write we can get some action/satisfaction.
:mad :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad
GM knows of these problems-they even have a GM transmission cooler kit available-but there goes your warranty!!!
If this was BMW or Porsche they would not issue a recall but would fix the problems for customers who complained.
Anyway does someone know who and where(email/smail) we could write to express our concerns----we bought Z06s for its performance, now we can't use it most of the year.
Maybe if enough of us write we can get some action/satisfaction.
:mad :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad :mad
06-11-2002, 09:19 PM
#5
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Re: Let's write GM re known Z06 design defects (trans temp, oil temp)
I don't have those problems. Yes the oil gets hots when tracking (my doesn't get as hot as yours though) and you could add an oil and/or tranny cooler and not void your warranty.
As far as oil on the air filter, mine has never done that.
As far as oil on the air filter, mine has never done that.
06-11-2002, 10:09 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
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Re: (ReddyZ06)
My oil temp at Mid-Ohio was under 200F. I would be concerned with those temperatures also.
Mike
Mike
actually, if you indeed are talking about road course use, then you are confusing your coolant temperature with your oil temperature. even on a 60 degree ambient day, at any track ala Mid-Ohio et al any stock C5/Z06 being driven moderately hard would see oil temps in the 275 (or better) range..
David
06-11-2002, 10:40 PM
#8
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Re: Let's write GM re known Z06 design defects (trans temp, oil temp) (tomarmstrong13)
<snip> "HIGH TRANS TEMP" problem, high oil temperature problem and oil on air filter problem. <snip> GM knows of these problems-they even have a GM transmission cooler kit available-but there goes your warranty!!!
If this was BMW or Porsche they would not issue a recall but would fix the problems for customers who complained.
If this was BMW or Porsche they would not issue a recall but would fix the problems for customers who complained.
I hate to burst your bubble/intrude, but I will, a dose of reality is needed here. you have a street car (albeit a very high performance sports/GT car), one of the finest, in fact. not a track car. while it is true that some other street cars are more track worthy right out of the gate, these carry a substantial premium in price from the Z06, to offset the additional engineering/track worthiness..
if you want to regularly track your car, then do the standard/minimal track prep that all other C5/Z06's do and get on with having the most fun possible with your clothes on!
you NEED an oil cooler, and if you are an experienced driver and most especially if you are using racing tires, you NEED an accusump. you NEED a transmission cooler and you NEED a differential cooler (they go in concert). you NEED a catch can off of the blow off valve on the tranny (to avoid spraying your rear brakes with tranny oil). these are "normal" track prep items and none of these things will "void your warantee" per say, other than the specific parts that they replace/affect. However, be advised, that ANY track use of your car, whether DE days or actual competition, will allow GM to utterly void your entire powertrain warantee, that is just the way it is. do not expect GM to cover your race track use of your street car, please read your warantee and get a different track car if you are not comfortable with the parameters in place. this forum has a wealth of experienced, knowledgeable and helpful road course veteran racers and amateurs who have been thru all these hoops and there is no need for you to reinvent the wheel.
I hope you enjoy your car.
re your oil on the air filter problem, that needs further elaboration. sounds like you have the standard oil ingestion thru the TB problem that is common to these cars on the road course. again, the fix is out there, a modification to the pcv breather system with a catch can.
btw - if you spend any time at road courses, you will find that the beemer/P-car crowd has many of the same issues and many similar "complaints". the grass is not always greener.
cheers,
David (happy to help)
06-11-2002, 11:27 PM
#9
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Re: Let's write GM re known Z06 design defects (no cure)
<snip> "HIGH TRANS TEMP" problem, high oil temperature problem and oil on air filter problem. <snip> GM knows of these problems-they even have a GM transmission cooler kit available-but there goes your warranty!!!
If this was BMW or Porsche they would not issue a recall but would fix the problems for customers who complained.
tomarmstrong13,
I hate to burst your bubble/intrude, but I will, a dose of reality is needed here. you have a street car (albeit a very high performance sports/GT car), one of the finest, in fact. not a track car. while it is true that some other street cars are more track worthy right out of the gate, these carry a substantial premium in price from the Z06, to offset the additional engineering/track worthiness..
if you want to regularly track your car, then do the standard/minimal track prep that all other C5/Z06's do and get on with having the most fun possible with your clothes on!
you NEED an oil cooler, and if you are an experienced driver and most especially if you are using racing tires, you NEED an accusump. you NEED a transmission cooler and you NEED a differential cooler (they go in concert). you NEED a catch can off of the blow off valve on the tranny (to avoid spraying your rear brakes with tranny oil). these are "normal" track prep items and none of these things will "void your warantee" per say, other than the specific parts that they replace/affect. However, be advised, that ANY track use of your car, whether DE days or actual competition, will allow GM to utterly void your entire powertrain warantee, that is just the way it is. do not expect GM to cover your race track use of your street car, please read your warantee and get a different track car if you are not comfortable with the parameters in place. this forum has a wealth of experienced, knowledgeable and helpful road course veteran racers and amateurs who have been thru all these hoops and there is no need for you to reinvent the wheel.
I hope you enjoy your car.
re your oil on the air filter problem, that needs further elaboration. sounds like you have the standard oil ingestion thru the TB problem that is common to these cars on the road course. again, the fix is out there, a modification to the pcv breather system with a catch can.
btw - if you spend any time at road courses, you will find that the beemer/P-car crowd has many of the same issues and many similar "complaints". the grass is not always greener.
cheers,
David (happy to help)
If this was BMW or Porsche they would not issue a recall but would fix the problems for customers who complained.
tomarmstrong13,
I hate to burst your bubble/intrude, but I will, a dose of reality is needed here. you have a street car (albeit a very high performance sports/GT car), one of the finest, in fact. not a track car. while it is true that some other street cars are more track worthy right out of the gate, these carry a substantial premium in price from the Z06, to offset the additional engineering/track worthiness..
if you want to regularly track your car, then do the standard/minimal track prep that all other C5/Z06's do and get on with having the most fun possible with your clothes on!
you NEED an oil cooler, and if you are an experienced driver and most especially if you are using racing tires, you NEED an accusump. you NEED a transmission cooler and you NEED a differential cooler (they go in concert). you NEED a catch can off of the blow off valve on the tranny (to avoid spraying your rear brakes with tranny oil). these are "normal" track prep items and none of these things will "void your warantee" per say, other than the specific parts that they replace/affect. However, be advised, that ANY track use of your car, whether DE days or actual competition, will allow GM to utterly void your entire powertrain warantee, that is just the way it is. do not expect GM to cover your race track use of your street car, please read your warantee and get a different track car if you are not comfortable with the parameters in place. this forum has a wealth of experienced, knowledgeable and helpful road course veteran racers and amateurs who have been thru all these hoops and there is no need for you to reinvent the wheel.
I hope you enjoy your car.
re your oil on the air filter problem, that needs further elaboration. sounds like you have the standard oil ingestion thru the TB problem that is common to these cars on the road course. again, the fix is out there, a modification to the pcv breather system with a catch can.
btw - if you spend any time at road courses, you will find that the beemer/P-car crowd has many of the same issues and many similar "complaints". the grass is not always greener.
cheers,
David (happy to help)
In terms of warranty voiding, it is my understanding that it is only voided if you are in a timed event (and they can prove it). There is no way they can void your powertrain warranty because you drove it hard for a weekend (that's basically what tracking it amounts to).
And on the point about other cars, if that's true, how do large numbers of European cars handle driving in Europe on a regular basis? The last time I was there I never really dropped below 110 mph on the autobahn and peaked over 135 mph for a number of minutes. In the process, I got BLOWN AWAY by a 911. And that is not mentioning some of the high altitude mountain roads that Europeans drive on very agressively (read 'crazy'). I know of one person in France who owns a new M3 and averages 100-120 mph on long trips in the South of France. This is on express ways that are nice and smooth but have turns and hills rated as low as 55 mph and as high as 80 mph. Needless to say, averaging 110-120 on those kinds of road for a 2-3 hour trip will work a car pretty good (including the burst of braking to brush off 50-60 mph in 2-3 seconds because of traffic).
Of course, if you expect to drive a Z06 all out at a track for an hour straight, you probably need to adjust your expectations to be a little more realistic. I would agree with you on one point. The Z06 is marketed as a trackable car for the road (a supercar at that); but NOT as a purpose built endurance race car. And none of the Z06 competitors are either.
As always, just my opinion :cheers: :seeya
06-12-2002, 12:40 AM
#10
Burning Brakes
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Re: Let's write GM re known Z06 design defects (Bertrand)
Did you see the video that shipped with your Z06? This is supposed to be a car that can handle the track bone stock.
That is surely how it was marketed to me by the dealer as well.
So call me naive if you want, but there is a truth in advertising issue here if all the mods you mentioned are required to track your car (I haven't yet so I can't pass judgement on whether these mods are necessary for this car).
In terms of warranty voiding, it is my understanding that it is only voided if you are in a timed event (and they can prove it). There is no way they can void your powertrain warranty because you drove it hard for a weekend (that's basically what tracking it amounts to).
here is The Fact: ANY closed course racetrack use of your car can and will (at the discretion of the GM regional rep) void your entire drivetrain warranty. I can't make it any plainer, nor will I debate this. the examples are many. but you are also wrong re equating going hard on track with "you drove it hard for a weekend (that's basically what tracking it amounts to)". I don't want to insult you, that's not my intent, but that is an extremely laughable and rediculously wrong statement. anyone with any high speed big track closed course experience will shake their head at that sentiment. it is So far from the truth. you will Never get close on the street, unless you are totally insane, in an entire week end to the wear of one 30 minute race/session with a competent driver..
And on the point about other cars, if that's true, how do large numbers of European cars handle driving in Europe on a regular basis?
cheers
David
06-12-2002, 02:44 AM
#11
Le Mans Master
You wrote: If this was BMW or Porsche they would not issue a recall but would fix the problems for customers who complained.
I wish this were true, but you're describing what's called "sitting over here and thinking the grass is greener over there" :D Fact is, go to the Bimmer board and read about new 2002 M3 engine blowing up and BMWUSA not cooperating with the owners.
Good luck to you,
I wish this were true, but you're describing what's called "sitting over here and thinking the grass is greener over there" :D Fact is, go to the Bimmer board and read about new 2002 M3 engine blowing up and BMWUSA not cooperating with the owners.
Good luck to you,
06-12-2002, 02:44 AM
#12
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Re: Let's write GM re known Z06 design defects (no cure)
I don't want to insult you, that's not my intent, but that is an extremely laughable and rediculously wrong statement. anyone with any high speed big track closed course experience will shake their head at that sentiment. it is So far from the truth. you will Never get close on the street, unless you are totally insane, in an entire week end to the wear of one 30 minute race/session with a competent driver..
And on the point about other cars, if that's true, how do large numbers of European cars handle driving in Europe on a regular basis? there is no equivalence between sitting at 3 grand in fifth or sixth and comfortably cruising at a somewhat high speed and track use. none. this is like saying "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle".
cheers
David
And on the point about other cars, if that's true, how do large numbers of European cars handle driving in Europe on a regular basis? there is no equivalence between sitting at 3 grand in fifth or sixth and comfortably cruising at a somewhat high speed and track use. none. this is like saying "a woman needs a man like a fish needs a bicycle".
cheers
David
On the track VS street driving, in the US, without violating every traffic law in the books, I agree.
My point was that some of the cars that can be considered competitive with a Z06, in Europe WILL put more wear in one weekend on the street than a good race driver at a track can in 30 minutes. I don't know if you've ever tried averaging 120 mph on an autoroute in the South of France. These things are not anywhere near straight or flat. They are designed to drive at an average speed of 80 mph and when you are averaging 120 mph, you are peaking around 135-145 MPH in open sections and dropping precipitously to 70-80 in turns, in blind hills, to slow down for traffic and then back on WOT to get back to 130-145 before the next turn or group of traffic. You're sometimes doing 120 mph on a long uphill grade when someone pulls into the left lane to pass a truck at 60 mph - burn up the brakes and it's another 60-120 mph in WOT going up a pretty steep hill, sometimes with a 50 mph head or crosswind to 'spice things up'. I'm not talking about cruising 120 on a straight empty deserted autobahn here. And obviously, people doing this are not in 5th or 6th at 3000 rpm the whole time.
My only point, is that some M3 or Porsche owners in Europe do this kind of driving day in day out and they are fully covered under warranty. And their cars seem to take it just fine (for hours on end). And some of those drivers are indeed certifiably crazy (and would be arrested here in the US for that kind of driving).
You won't go through tires like you would at a track event because you wouldn't risk the latteral G loads you might in the controlled environment of a track but the drivetrain and braking effect can be very similar (including the oil, transmission and differential temperature issues that started this post in the first place) to weekend warrior amateur racing.
Obviously, endurance or semi-pro racing is a different story all-together.
That being said, I like my stock Z06 just the way it is and don't have any complaints. I don't think I disagree with anything you are saying in principal, but I do think I failed to adequately convey the type of street driving I was referring to in my post.
:cheers:
06-12-2002, 07:34 AM
#13
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Re: Let's write GM re known Z06 design defects (Bertrand)
As said the minute your car goes on a race track for 1/4 mile drags, autox or any track event you can lose your warranty, and they are watching, some may think this is unfair but we did buy street cars, not race cars. :)
06-12-2002, 07:35 AM
#14
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Re: (no cure)
Quote: I dont' think tomarmstrong13 is referring to participating in the lunch time parade lap(s).
Ouch - I didn't say I was any good at the track. I passed most people.
Mike
Ouch - I didn't say I was any good at the track. I passed most people.
Mike
06-12-2002, 09:16 AM
#15
Re: Let's write GM
Tom, I agree with No Cure: if you are going to track your car (regardless of what your expectations were after watching the videotape that came with your car, or what your salesman told you), you absolutely must have engine, tranny and differential oil coolers. Even if you're not going to track it, if you run a Corvette at sustained high speeds (meaning 100/100-plus MPH) for 15 minutes or so when the ambient temps are in the 90s, the odds are excellent that you'll turn the tranny to junk; the oil just can't handle the temperatures that you'll generate.
Which brings me to the Bimmers, Porsches and Mercedes you mentioned. You are correct that they are capable of running at sustained high speeds over long distances. And the reason for that is because they were designed with that in mind. Your Corvette wasn't. There is no place in the U.S. where you can legally run a Corvette at 100 MPH for long distances, other than on a closed course. That mode of operation was never part of the design parameter. Corvettes delivered in Europe are delivered with transmission oil coolers.
As for the notion that Porsches, Bimmers and Mercedes are "better" because they can run at sustained high speeds, those buggers are, I think you'll agree, pretty damn expensive to buy because the engineering behind them and the costs of producing the component parts isn't cheap. Moreover, I speak from experience when I tell you that the maintenance costs will drive you to your knees. And, when they break -- and they do break -- the component costs are outrageous. The advice that you were given to go to their websites (Bimmer.org; MBNZ. org) will prove that to you.
If you are getting a high oil temp light in "normal" service -- i.e., just driving around town or at (U.S.) highway speeds, you need to have that checked out. You shouldn't be getting that signal, and the sender is probably defective. If the sender is functioning properly and your oil temps are excessive in "normal" operation, then something mechanical is wrong. A Corvette should not throw a high oil temp light in "normal" service.
Which brings me to the Bimmers, Porsches and Mercedes you mentioned. You are correct that they are capable of running at sustained high speeds over long distances. And the reason for that is because they were designed with that in mind. Your Corvette wasn't. There is no place in the U.S. where you can legally run a Corvette at 100 MPH for long distances, other than on a closed course. That mode of operation was never part of the design parameter. Corvettes delivered in Europe are delivered with transmission oil coolers.
As for the notion that Porsches, Bimmers and Mercedes are "better" because they can run at sustained high speeds, those buggers are, I think you'll agree, pretty damn expensive to buy because the engineering behind them and the costs of producing the component parts isn't cheap. Moreover, I speak from experience when I tell you that the maintenance costs will drive you to your knees. And, when they break -- and they do break -- the component costs are outrageous. The advice that you were given to go to their websites (Bimmer.org; MBNZ. org) will prove that to you.
If you are getting a high oil temp light in "normal" service -- i.e., just driving around town or at (U.S.) highway speeds, you need to have that checked out. You shouldn't be getting that signal, and the sender is probably defective. If the sender is functioning properly and your oil temps are excessive in "normal" operation, then something mechanical is wrong. A Corvette should not throw a high oil temp light in "normal" service.
06-12-2002, 09:44 PM
#16
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Re: Let's write GM re known Z06 design defects (trans temp, oil temp), JOIN IN !!!
This sure generated a great discussion. Now for my ramblings----
The car is used to go to and run in "Driver Education" schools held on race tracks. No competition, passing only by signal and no timing. BMW and Porsche North America actively promote these schools. Of course you can go as fast as you want! And I agree that the wear is many times more than encountered in street use. But that is why I bought the car. The video that comes with the car even has a section on preping the car for competitive use--just add 1 qt oil and increase the camber.
As for my experience with other makes of (foreign) cars, I attend/instruct at 12- 15 schools per year and have for 10 years, usually Porsche, BMW but sometimes Mustang, Mazda, Alfa. I've seen 996's, M3's and Miatas beaten for years with few ill effects.
Reading the warranty book, it says What is not covered. ¥ misuse of the vehicle such as driving over curbs, overloading, racing, or other competition" Still its the service managers decision.-- Based on my personal experience with the local dealer, I'm resigned to the fact that my next warranty claim will result in me going to court.
I agree that the car needs an oil cooler, trans oil cooler and diff oil cooler but
:cuss :cuss I have no intention of putting them on now and surely loosing the warranty and any chance of a court case. I would have paid extra if they were factory options even though they should have been on the car as standard equipment-What the heck did we get for all the extra money for the Z06??---a spring is a spring and a brake pad is a brake pad!! Sure I could go to Doug Rippe and get the complete mod including good brakes and 500hp for only $44k and my car.
As far as foreign cars are concerned, I ran a stock 92 BMW M3 for years with no problems. Currently I also have a 99 BMW M Coupe that I've tracked for 3 years on the same tracks, same tires, same driver(me) with no problems so far--the oil temp is 260 max Spring, Summer, Fall. The first weekend this Spring that the Z06 had its first TRANS TEMP problem and high oil temp I also ran the M Coupe-no temp problems. (Yes, lap times are very close, 2-3 seconds.)
The car is used to go to and run in "Driver Education" schools held on race tracks. No competition, passing only by signal and no timing. BMW and Porsche North America actively promote these schools. Of course you can go as fast as you want! And I agree that the wear is many times more than encountered in street use. But that is why I bought the car. The video that comes with the car even has a section on preping the car for competitive use--just add 1 qt oil and increase the camber.
As for my experience with other makes of (foreign) cars, I attend/instruct at 12- 15 schools per year and have for 10 years, usually Porsche, BMW but sometimes Mustang, Mazda, Alfa. I've seen 996's, M3's and Miatas beaten for years with few ill effects.
Reading the warranty book, it says What is not covered. ¥ misuse of the vehicle such as driving over curbs, overloading, racing, or other competition" Still its the service managers decision.-- Based on my personal experience with the local dealer, I'm resigned to the fact that my next warranty claim will result in me going to court.
I agree that the car needs an oil cooler, trans oil cooler and diff oil cooler but
:cuss :cuss I have no intention of putting them on now and surely loosing the warranty and any chance of a court case. I would have paid extra if they were factory options even though they should have been on the car as standard equipment-What the heck did we get for all the extra money for the Z06??---a spring is a spring and a brake pad is a brake pad!! Sure I could go to Doug Rippe and get the complete mod including good brakes and 500hp for only $44k and my car.
As far as foreign cars are concerned, I ran a stock 92 BMW M3 for years with no problems. Currently I also have a 99 BMW M Coupe that I've tracked for 3 years on the same tracks, same tires, same driver(me) with no problems so far--the oil temp is 260 max Spring, Summer, Fall. The first weekend this Spring that the Z06 had its first TRANS TEMP problem and high oil temp I also ran the M Coupe-no temp problems. (Yes, lap times are very close, 2-3 seconds.)
06-13-2002, 01:39 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
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Re: Let's write GM re known Z06 design defects (trans temp, oil temp), JOIN IN !!! (tomarmstrong13)
As for my experience with other makes of (foreign) cars, I attend/instruct at 12- 15 schools per year and have for 10 years
I'm resigned to the fact that my next warranty claim will result in me going to court.
.. I ran a stock 92 BMW M3 for years.. with no problems... a 99 BMW M Coupe (Yes, lap times are very close, 2-3 seconds.)
06-13-2002, 02:25 AM
#18
Safety Car
Re: Let's write GM re known Z06 design defects
This is the first I have heard of any of these problems. I don't have any of them after 15,000 miles. :)
06-13-2002, 03:56 AM
#19
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Re: Let's write GM (Mechanic)
I am quite surprised at this topic, maybe amazed. . I can't think of any automobile manufacturer in the world that will stand behind their vehicles that are driven in competitive events. Matter of fact, abusive street driving can void one's warranty.
06-13-2002, 04:07 AM
#20
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Re: Let's write GM (2ndVette)
I am quite surprised at this topic, maybe amazed. . I can't think of any automobile manufacturer in the world that will stand behind their vehicles that are driven in competitive events. Matter of fact, abusive street driving can void one's warranty.
This is not a 'normal' passenger car we are talking about. How do you define abusive street driving? WOT? Running hard when the oil isn't above 140 (that would be in book). People don't buy Z06s to baby them (or they shouldn't IMO).