Gen II

This is amazing.

The "SMACK DOWN" challenge has brought about a spate of returns of product that didn't meet the goal - the supplier wrote his response and this elicited even more responses from others - it's all on another forum, in thread listed below.

Halltech (The Great American Dream)







[Modified by Gen II, 11:53 AM 5/26/2002]

Z06_2002

I think he is selling the returns off at $199.00

Gen II

I just saw that. Better hurry though, Jim Hall said he going to leave that forum and delete the post.

If he post here we can buy them for $199 or call his shop.

Gen II

It was on another forum. I copied most of the thread to HD and it's good, too, because most of it is now been altered or deleted. What a read. Anyone wanting the full copy...IM me.

Gen II

it was on the zzo6 forum in the grandstand section

don527

No. It's the ZZZZZZZZZZ00000000006666666666VETTE.com :D

Don
[Modified by don527, 11:17 PM 5/26/2002]

Afy

Give us the details.. or at least a synopsis..

Gen II

I copied everything and can send it you. Let me have an email address.

Halltech

Yup, we did get back the T-1C that AFY purchased for Powershifter (Now testing the Vararam for RG in Dallas) and gave him a refund in full yesterday.

The other two returns have already been resold.

NEW FORUM PRICING ON THE T-1C TO REFLECT THE 8 to 10 RWHP and 10 ft. lbs torque over stock (9.4 to 12 BHP) rather than the previously recorded R&D Dyno, Cartek, Swanson Dynos and many others of 16 to 17 RWHP, we are lowering our T-1C prices to $299.00 on the forum MALL today!


When I declared 15 RWHP or your money back, I knew a few would miss the mark and win. This was a contest, in which, there were no losers in my opinion. Did they hit the 15 RWHP number? In the Cartek dyno below, and our dyno shown 16.2 RWHP and 17.8 RWHP were acheived to back up our advertising. Now we will back up the T-1 SideWinder Package, has dynoed consistantly at 377 to 383 RWHP on every 2002 it has been installed on.
The fellow who was local made 9.8 RWHP and 10 ft. lbs torque, onefastdog made 7.8/10 ft. lbs torque, which is off what has been reported by many members in the past. For instance.

Here is CARTEK's dyno of our T-1 with no futzing:



Thanks for the new advertisement. We are going to be selling the T-1 to the forum for $299.00 from now on.



This was done Friday during the challange. His dyno numbers went back to just about stock when the engine heat soak took place, but the top line is the T-1C. This fellow one the T-1C, and was not disappointed in the new performance per his statement on the other forum.


Here is what happens when folks purchase our T-1C SideWinder package:



Here is John Wu's stock vs. T-1 only dyno:



Here is his follow up dyno after installing our T-1SideWinder Package now onsale in the Mall:




Jimbo


:seeya


[Modified by Jim Hall, 11:53 PM 5/27/2002]


[Modified by Jim Hall, 1:09 AM 5/29/2002]

Gen II

Lowering the price to meet the lower performance will make a few sales. Are you thinking about another "smack down" test - maybe 10 RWHP and 10 RWT or it's free?

ncvetteman

I think some are expecting to much... other intake manufactors do not guaratee or take returns as quick as Jim does. Its difficult dealing with cars like C5s, were mods react differently on each car, not exactly the fault of his intake.

MOUNTAINWOLF

Jim, What kind of deal do you have on the Stinger package? I would be willing to have MTI
in Marietta (GA) do the install of the package & do testing.

Halltech

Check out the Mall. There are special deals there.

Jim

The DBK

Hey, I gotta give Jim credit for having the ***** to unconditionally back up his challenge. Maybe the package didnt make the advertised power, but such is life in the A/F challenged world of the LS1/6. Gains are gonna vary...

And it's fine by me to resell them at a discount. $199? That's chump change in the world of Corvette mods. Hell, people pay more than that for cheap cosmetic mods.... :cheers:

Gen II

I disagree ....
Aren't the expectations of buyer based on advertised gains? And, Vararam offers a performance guarantee.

I still think 10/10 is a good gain and the pricing is also good.

Racer281

Jim, I posted to the thread in the other forum as 2002 Z my 6. I, for one, think that the less aggressive advertised improvement will be great for business. IMHO, I think that quoting conservative performance numbers has proven very positive for the guys at LPE and even Porsche. I think that 99.999% of your customers will be extremely happy with the true performance of their system.

I sincerely hope that this will put the dyno troubles in the past and wish you the best of luck.

Power Shifter

Jim, Just try to tell the truth about my conection with Afy and his T-1. He got it from some generous friend(not me) for his birthday. He asked me to try to get the big performance promised going down the 1/4 mile. It disen't exist, It was not there,and he was not at all pleased with me afterwards cleaning the rubber off his car. I for one am sick and tired off your bogus twisting of fact. Ric

MrViperGTS

Why is it that even when Jim Hall tries to be humble, he still looks like he's beating his chest.

Anyone with half a brain knows what the truth is... the truth is that OF COURSE the gains will vary from car to car for ANY mod, thats just life. Some of them might make, say, up to 17RWHP, some might only make 1 or 2. As a manufacturer, Halltech can either pick the most optimistic number, or an average number. You think EVERY Z06 dynoes to 405hp? I bet MOST of them are above 405hp in reality because they will all vary, and GM wants to be sure 99.9% of folks get their 405hp, and the ONLY way to guarantee that is to deliver a litlte more, so even the ones that are on the low end of the scale give their 405hp.

Hall needs to do the same thing. Rather then picking the most optimistic number, he needs to shoot for the more middle of the range. He's a HORRIBLE businessman - arguing with customers, making himself look like an azz, and NEVER EVER EVER EVER admitting he was wrong. Whenever he tries to say he made a mistake, he IMMEDIATELY follows with tons of garbage that shows he was NOT wrong. Geez, look at his "we lost the challenge" thread... he says "kinda' and goes on to say that they DID make the horsepower on the few runs, and how his intake DOES work. be a man... step up and say what happened, don't try to dance around the issue and make out like you lost but you really won.

Here is some business advice for you Hall...

1) No matter HOW right you are, you can NEVER win by arguing with customers. Simply tell your side, and leave it at that.

2) You better be DAMN sure of what you claim, because someone WILL take you to task on it! If you say it WILL make 17RWHP, well then it better. If it can't RELIABLY make 17RWHP without futzing with the car, then don't claim it! Say something like "guaranteed 5rwhp, but up to 20hp gains are very common!" and then post dynoes of the 20hp gains. NOBODY is as stupid as you think they are and they WILL see through your lame attempts to admit fault while still slamming the folks that disagree with you.

3) YOU dug this hole, now YOU lie in it. It aggravates me when you imply that people I know and consider friends are trying to pull something on you, or that they have an interest or reason to be less than totally honest. That is NOT fair.

4) Just like an employer can be friendly with an employee, but should not be a friend... you can be a participant on this board, but you can't act like the regular members do. Don't get into pissing matches, don't argue with people, don't imply that folks are dishonest, don't always always always insert little barbs or "but's" into your statements - be up front, totally honest.

5) I dont know if your "accidental" misspellings of Afy's name were on purpose or not, but regardless, it comes across as you being an arrogant, stubborn SOB. How hard is it to get 3 letters right? It's Afy, not Afny, it's Chopra, not Copra. I notice you never misspell others names wrong, unless you're flaming someone. Do you realize this comes across as sly underhanded insults?

I don't even own a C5, although I likely will some day. And I can tell you I don't know you, I don't know your products, and I don't know your company... but I would NEVER buy a Halltech product, because I can't STAND the attitude I see. You come across to me as an arrogant, stubborn, hard-headed argumentative SOB who can't just accept when he's wrong.. I'm sure that in your head, even when you are wrong, you're really right.

I don't mean that as a slam - but think on it. You are losing WAY more customers than you probably realize. They are a fickle bunch and must be treated well even when they whine and compain. Perception IS reality... you should take some customer service classes and realize that even things you may say in every day conversation can easily be taken the wrong way by a customer.

Your arguing on this forum, on the other Z06 forum, and even some arguments on the Viper forum do NOTHING but make me wary of dealing with you... and you know why? I don't want to be on the receiving end of a whole bunch of grief for expectng what YOU advertised.

P.S.. read the other thread... you need to look up the definition of the word "claim".

Yeah it hurts.. I know.. deal w/it.

pridnjoy

:eek: :eek: :eek:

How do you really feel MrViperGTS? :D

ZO6Les

Well I for one am quite happy with my 10+ RWHP and RWTQ that I picked up with Jim's T1 Sidewinder. Like someone said results will vary from car to car, dyno to dyno, area of country, time of year, quality of install etc. ALl the new power was under the curve so a blip 15 RWHP measured at the end of the dyno run is meaningless to those in the know.

Jim is proud of his product and comes across a bit defensive I agree, but does that make him a bad businessman - I would prefer to say "room for improvement".

My intake cracked when I installed it. I admitted to Jim that I likely overtightened it. He said "unconditional warranty means what it says, I'll ship you a new unit today" and he did. He stands behind his warranty, does what he says he will and posts when he wins and when he loses.

It doesn't get much better then that in my book. To each his own.

Les :D :D :D