[Z06] C6 ZR1 Brakes on a C5 - Serious Inquiry
#41
Burning Brakes
These brakes are rated for the life of the car when used for street duty only. Name just ONE brake system that provides the same. I know of none. If I had the cash to throw out for brakes this would be it for me too since I only track my car 2-3 times a year. It would be 20yrs before I had to do anything at least. With my luck, I wouldn't be here anyway.
#43
Melting Slicks
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The following rotor is from Hardbar's web site. It is a 12.81 inch iron rotor with an aluminum hat - http://hardbarusa.com/hardbar/produc...roducts_id=154
Cost: $950
It won't last 20% of the life of a ceramic rotor - $950 x 5 = $4,750 versus $1,300.
#44
Race Director
#47
Race Director
The following rotor is from Hardbar's web site. It is a 12.81 inch iron rotor with an aluminum hat - http://hardbarusa.com/hardbar/produc...roducts_id=154
Cost: $950
It won't last 20% of the life of a ceramic rotor - $950 x 5 = $4,750 versus $1,300.
Cost: $950
It won't last 20% of the life of a ceramic rotor - $950 x 5 = $4,750 versus $1,300.
Have you done the install yet?
Are the ZR1 calipers similar to the Z06 calipers or totally new castings? I am interested in the perfmance gains of the lighter rotating mass of the rotors out front.
Last edited by RC45; 05-11-2011 at 04:40 PM.
#48
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I believe the casting is different then the C6Z06 caliper even though it is also a six piston design and the mount points are the same. I got a chance to look at them close at a dealership showroom and compare. The Grand Sport calipers are the same as Z06 calipers I believe. Sounds cool, even though it does have a massive initial price tag. If I had unlimited funds I'd probably do it.
Keep this in mind though, the performance on the street WILL BE WORSE! That's not to say they wont work. Don't really need to bang your head against the front windshield on the street. Carbon Ceramic Rotors don't start working until they heat up significantly. You will most likely never get these in their temperature operating range on the street. I recall someone here mentioned that he drove a ZR1 on the track and attested to the brakes never fading the more he pounded on them at a track. This is why. The Carbon Ceramic rotors are designed to operate at at super high temps. I suppose you will probably feel better suspension dynamics and handling improvements with the lighter rotating weight also.
Like I mentioned, if I had the money, which I most likely never will, I'd be willing to make these compromises. If anyone has a ton of cash they just absolutely cannot find anything to do with I'd be happy to relieve them of that stress.
Keep this in mind though, the performance on the street WILL BE WORSE! That's not to say they wont work. Don't really need to bang your head against the front windshield on the street. Carbon Ceramic Rotors don't start working until they heat up significantly. You will most likely never get these in their temperature operating range on the street. I recall someone here mentioned that he drove a ZR1 on the track and attested to the brakes never fading the more he pounded on them at a track. This is why. The Carbon Ceramic rotors are designed to operate at at super high temps. I suppose you will probably feel better suspension dynamics and handling improvements with the lighter rotating weight also.
Like I mentioned, if I had the money, which I most likely never will, I'd be willing to make these compromises. If anyone has a ton of cash they just absolutely cannot find anything to do with I'd be happy to relieve them of that stress.
#49
Le Mans Master
I believe the casting is different then the C6Z06 caliper even though it is also a six piston design and the mount points are the same. I got a chance to look at them close at a dealership showroom and compare. The Grand Sport calipers are the same as Z06 calipers I believe. Sounds cool, even though it does have a massive initial price tag. If I had unlimited funds I'd probably do it.
Keep this in mind though, the performance on the street WILL BE WORSE! That's not to say they wont work. Don't really need to bang your head against the front windshield on the street. Carbon Ceramic Rotors don't start working until they heat up significantly. You will most likely never get these in their temperature operating range on the street. I recall someone here mentioned that he drove a ZR1 on the track and attested to the brakes never fading the more he pounded on them at a track. This is why. The Carbon Ceramic rotors are designed to operate at at super high temps. I suppose you will probably feel better suspension dynamics and handling improvements with the lighter rotating weight also.
Like I mentioned, if I had the money, which I most likely never will, I'd be willing to make these compromises. If anyone has a ton of cash they just absolutely cannot find anything to do with I'd be happy to relieve them of that stress.
Keep this in mind though, the performance on the street WILL BE WORSE! That's not to say they wont work. Don't really need to bang your head against the front windshield on the street. Carbon Ceramic Rotors don't start working until they heat up significantly. You will most likely never get these in their temperature operating range on the street. I recall someone here mentioned that he drove a ZR1 on the track and attested to the brakes never fading the more he pounded on them at a track. This is why. The Carbon Ceramic rotors are designed to operate at at super high temps. I suppose you will probably feel better suspension dynamics and handling improvements with the lighter rotating weight also.
Like I mentioned, if I had the money, which I most likely never will, I'd be willing to make these compromises. If anyone has a ton of cash they just absolutely cannot find anything to do with I'd be happy to relieve them of that stress.
#50
Melting Slicks
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The rotors are cheaper than the hat + rotor replacement. Figure half of that.
Have you done the install yet?
Are the ZR1 calipers similar to the Z06 calipers or totally new castings? I am interested in the perfmance gains of the lighter rotating mass of the rotors out front.
Have you done the install yet?
Are the ZR1 calipers similar to the Z06 calipers or totally new castings? I am interested in the perfmance gains of the lighter rotating mass of the rotors out front.
I received my shipment from the GM dealer last Thursday. I repacked the calipers and sent them to The Powdercoater.com - Mike so he could change their color from baby blue to TORCH RED. Mike said it will be in early June before he will have them done.
In the mean time, I am painting the new C6 knuckles and the steel hat section of the rear rotors. After Mike returns my calipers, I will take a complete set of pictures and weigh all the parts before I start the installation.
#51
Race Director
I received my shipment from the GM dealer last Thursday. I repacked the calipers and sent them to The Powdercoater.com - Mike so he could change their color from baby blue to TORCH RED. Mike said it will be in early June before he will have them done.
In the mean time, I am painting the new C6 knuckles and the steel hat section of the rear rotors. After Mike returns my calipers, I will take a complete set of pictures and weigh all the parts before I start the installation.
In the mean time, I am painting the new C6 knuckles and the steel hat section of the rear rotors. After Mike returns my calipers, I will take a complete set of pictures and weigh all the parts before I start the installation.
#53
Race Director
I checked into utilizing the ZR1 brakes on my 2006 Z06. It's a massive undertaking. Here's why~
The ZR1 brake sensors are mated with a BOSCH computer with regards to AH and TC. (Probably ABS too but not sure. )
My car came with DELPHI computer for AH & TC. The ZR1 brakes are not compatible with my car.
Also, the rotational mass advantage of the CC rotors is lost when you install larger wheels. This has been proven by similar lap times for both regular and carbon Z06's.
Now, if an aftermarketer came out with a set of CC rotors and pads for my car, where I could still utilize my stock wheels & calipers...
The ZR1 brake sensors are mated with a BOSCH computer with regards to AH and TC. (Probably ABS too but not sure. )
My car came with DELPHI computer for AH & TC. The ZR1 brakes are not compatible with my car.
Also, the rotational mass advantage of the CC rotors is lost when you install larger wheels. This has been proven by similar lap times for both regular and carbon Z06's.
Now, if an aftermarketer came out with a set of CC rotors and pads for my car, where I could still utilize my stock wheels & calipers...
#54
Race Director
I checked into utilizing the ZR1 brakes on my 2006 Z06. It's a massive undertaking. Here's why~
The ZR1 brake sensors are mated with a BOSCH computer with regards to AH and TC. (Probably ABS too but not sure. )
My car came with DELPHI computer for AH & TC. The ZR1 brakes are not compatible with my car.
Also, the rotational mass advantage of the CC rotors is lost when you install larger wheels. This has been proven by similar lap times for both regular and carbon Z06's.
Now, if an aftermarketer came out with a set of CC rotors and pads for my car, where I could still utilize my stock wheels & calipers...
The ZR1 brake sensors are mated with a BOSCH computer with regards to AH and TC. (Probably ABS too but not sure. )
My car came with DELPHI computer for AH & TC. The ZR1 brakes are not compatible with my car.
Also, the rotational mass advantage of the CC rotors is lost when you install larger wheels. This has been proven by similar lap times for both regular and carbon Z06's.
Now, if an aftermarketer came out with a set of CC rotors and pads for my car, where I could still utilize my stock wheels & calipers...
#55
Melting Slicks
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I checked into utilizing the ZR1 brakes on my 2006 Z06. It's a massive undertaking. Here's why~
The ZR1 brake sensors are mated with a BOSCH computer with regards to AH and TC. (Probably ABS too but not sure. )
My car came with DELPHI computer for AH & TC. The ZR1 brakes are not compatible with my car.
Also, the rotational mass advantage of the CC rotors is lost when you install larger wheels. This has been proven by similar lap times for both regular and carbon Z06's.
Now, if an aftermarketer came out with a set of CC rotors and pads for my car, where I could still utilize my stock wheels & calipers...
The ZR1 brake sensors are mated with a BOSCH computer with regards to AH and TC. (Probably ABS too but not sure. )
My car came with DELPHI computer for AH & TC. The ZR1 brakes are not compatible with my car.
Also, the rotational mass advantage of the CC rotors is lost when you install larger wheels. This has been proven by similar lap times for both regular and carbon Z06's.
Now, if an aftermarketer came out with a set of CC rotors and pads for my car, where I could still utilize my stock wheels & calipers...
Let me give you some data to ponder:
1) The ZR1 Michelin tires are run-flats. That adds 18 lbs to the rotational mass of the ZR1. I am not running run-flats.
2) The ZR1 ceramic front rotors weigh on my bathroom scale - 12.5 lbs. The C6 Z06 front rotors weigh in the area of 27 lbs. Less rotational mass.
3) I am running HRE three piece wheels. These are lighter than the factory ZR1 wheels. Less rotational mass.
I don't know if you have ever compared the pad area of a C6 ZR1 pad versus the C5 or C6 Z06 pads, but the differrence is startling.
-
#56
Race Director
Are the ZR! pads 1 piece pads?
What size wheel are you running?
My Hardbar rotors are 19lbs, so there is still 7lbs to save with the carbon rotors. But then again I only need an 18" wheel up front that weighs 22lb. What do your HRE fronts weigh?
What is the word on how quick they get up tot operatin gtemp? Quicker than the iron rotors?
What size wheel are you running?
My Hardbar rotors are 19lbs, so there is still 7lbs to save with the carbon rotors. But then again I only need an 18" wheel up front that weighs 22lb. What do your HRE fronts weigh?
What is the word on how quick they get up tot operatin gtemp? Quicker than the iron rotors?
#57
Burning Brakes
I wasn't aware that braking deflection was that a big of a concern, seeing as the C6 knuckles are physically are a tiny bit larger than C5 in certain areas and yet still interchangeable; which tells me that the beefing up wasn't that big of a deal; but all bets are off if they changed the metallurgy (which I don't know). However, there are plenty of C5's and C6's that are running brakes that are superior the ZR1 brakes. Strange, I've seen a couple 430Scud's swap out to aftermarket kits to get better performance and keep their ceramics on the side.
For a street car, these ZR1 brakes would be a really cool thing and be the holy grail for ultimate Vette bling. Great performance and that cachet of uniqueness.
Norty,
I was talking with a PFC engineer at PRI back in December, and I brought up the topic of converting iron to carbon ceramics, IIRC his observations were that while dimensionally possible; in racing use the energy absorbed by the cc rotor and the accompanying pads can cause dangerous loads on the pistons and calipers if not designed from the get go.
For a street car, these ZR1 brakes would be a really cool thing and be the holy grail for ultimate Vette bling. Great performance and that cachet of uniqueness.
Norty,
I was talking with a PFC engineer at PRI back in December, and I brought up the topic of converting iron to carbon ceramics, IIRC his observations were that while dimensionally possible; in racing use the energy absorbed by the cc rotor and the accompanying pads can cause dangerous loads on the pistons and calipers if not designed from the get go.
Last edited by OKsweetrides; 05-12-2011 at 03:56 PM.
#58
Melting Slicks
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Are the ZR! pads 1 piece pads?
What size wheel are you running?
My Hardbar rotors are 19lbs, so there is still 7lbs to save with the carbon rotors. But then again I only need an 18" wheel up front that weighs 22lb. What do your HRE fronts weigh?
What is the word on how quick they get up tot operatin gtemp? Quicker than the iron rotors?
What size wheel are you running?
My Hardbar rotors are 19lbs, so there is still 7lbs to save with the carbon rotors. But then again I only need an 18" wheel up front that weighs 22lb. What do your HRE fronts weigh?
What is the word on how quick they get up tot operatin gtemp? Quicker than the iron rotors?
The C6 ZR1 pads are one-piece. I will post pictures of all the pieces once I have my calipers back from Mike at ThePowdercoater.com, and I can complete my conversion.
I am running the following wheels sizes:
Front: 19 x 10 inches, with 285/30R19 Michelin PS2 tires
Rear: 20 x 12 inches, with 325/25R20 Michelin PS2 tires
These are my street tires and wheels. The guys are CC Wheels tell me that they have 18 inch wheels that will clear the ZR1 brakes.
#59
Melting Slicks
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I wasn't aware that braking deflection was that a big of a concern, seeing as the C6 knuckles are physically are a tiny bit larger than C5 in certain areas and yet still interchangeable; which tells me that the beefing up wasn't that big of a deal; but all bets are off if they changed the metallurgy (which I don't know). However, there are plenty of C5's and C6's that are running brakes that are superior the ZR1 brakes. Strange, I've seen a couple 430Scud's swap out to aftermarket kits to get better performance and keep their ceramics on the side.
For a street car, these ZR1 brakes would be a really cool thing and be the holy grail for ultimate Vette bling. Great performance and that cachet of uniqueness.
For a street car, these ZR1 brakes would be a really cool thing and be the holy grail for ultimate Vette bling. Great performance and that cachet of uniqueness.
According to Tadge Juechter, the Corvette Chief Engineer, the Corvette Development team discovered the front knuckle deflection during the developmenet of the ZR1 brakes. Seeing that they have money to throw away, they decided to stiffen the knuckles.
Now I am also sure that there are any number of C5 and C6 Corvette racers who have instrumented their front knuckles and determined that the Corvette Development team's data is in error.
In addition, I am certain that these same individuals have equipped a Corvette with ZR1 brakes, properly bedded them, put racing tires on the test mule, and then done back-to-back braking tests versus their superior braking system race cars.
I anxiously await the test data.
#60
I wasn't aware that braking deflection was that a big of a concern, seeing as the C6 knuckles are physically are a tiny bit larger than C5 in certain areas and yet still interchangeable; which tells me that the beefing up wasn't that big of a deal; but all bets are off if they changed the metallurgy (which I don't know). However, there are plenty of C5's and C6's that are running brakes that are superior the ZR1 brakes. Strange, I've seen a couple 430Scud's swap out to aftermarket kits to get better performance and keep their ceramics on the side.
I was talking with a PFC engineer at PRI back in December, and I brought up the topic of converting iron to carbon ceramics, IIRC his observations were that while dimensionally possible; in racing use the energy absorbed by the cc rotor and the accompanying pads can cause dangerous loads on the pistons and calipers if not designed from the get go.
Chris