sebrock

This weekend I experienced brake fading for the first time; pretty scarry. We were using ease to scan the car for some tuning and were driving very hard; lot's of stop and go 100mph down to 30mph. I know the fading was not caused by boiling brake fluid because of the type of fluid I have. The pads must of been so hot that the gases were not escaping fast enough through the cross-drilled rotors. It took about 15 minutes for the fade to go away and then it was braking as usual. Now here is my question, and I need some road racers to answer this; If I upgrade to a big brake kit, obviously the stopping power will increase but how does this decrease fade? Is it that more stopping power equals less heat? Anyone had experience with fade and big brake kits?


[Modified by sebrock, 10:38 PM 10/12/2003]

davidfarmer

You've got it all wrong. Stopping power will change very little (that is a function of pads and ultimate tire grip) but fade should be completely eliminated. I run the hottest Hawk pads made with my Stoptech setup, and even with 530HP, 170mph speeds, and racing slicks, I have NO fade, and often go two race weekends without bleeding.

btw, if your stock brakes can lock (ABS kicks in), that is all there is with a given tire.

Dave

sebrock

I understand what your saying about the tires. I was riding the brakes really hard hoping for the ABS to kick in and the tires to do the stopping but all I got was fade. It scared the crap out of me. If I change my pads, will this help eliminate the fade?

Dylan Savage

There's 2 different kinds of fade - pad fade and fluid fade.

Pad fade is where the pedal is still firm, and you're pushing on it very hard, but the car isn't stopping.

Fluid fade is where the pedal gets very soft and goes to the floor, and you definitely aren't stopping.

Pad fade can be "fixed" by getting better/more aggressive pads. Fluid fade can be fixed by bleeding and better fluid. Also bigger rotors dissipate heat better, and if you get ductwork for the fronts it will help with the heat alot.

vette.se

:iagree:

Get a set of DRM frontbrake ducting and the LG motorsport rotor cooling adapters (page John Shiels on this forum about this) and get the Z06 rearbrake cooling ducts or similar product from Breathless Performance or ACI.

You will have a big difference with proper cooling of your rotors.

:cheers:

davidfarmer

You may have a mechanical issue! Even stock brakes should be capable of locking the tires, at least for several laps. If you aren't getting a firm pedal for at least a few laps, you've got a problem.

Regardless, a good brake kit (Stoptech is my choice) will fix it. Cooling may fix your problem, but it is very difficult to do properly.

Good luck!

sebrock

David -

I can lock the brakes and I usually do; this was after 2 hours of hard braking with stock calipers and cross-drilled rotors. When I went to hit the brakes the pedal felt firm (as firm as a pedal will feel with crappy rubber lines) and the car was not stopping as well. After the brakes cooled off for 15 minutes I could lock the brakes again. But regardless, I will look into the Stop-Tech, I am at the point where I am being hampered by my brakes and not my RWHP.
I see why guys in Neon's with big butt brakes get such good lap times.

LTC Z06

If money where no object Stoptechs would be on my car right now.
BUT
I have done a lot of laps and auto-x with stock brakes with no problems. I added the DRM ducts, DRM stainless steel caliper pistons, and high temp fluid. You cannot feel your rubber lines, I have ss brake lines but they are just for safety. Your ceramic pads are your biggest problem, second problem are you drilled disk, both of those products are made for the street only. How are you being "hampered" by your brakes?

Also, go to the Stoptech website and read the info papers, they give you the truth on big brake kits and what they do for you.


[Modified by CPT Z06, 11:43 AM 10/13/2003]

Jim 47

I run and instruct at a lot of track events. My 2000 FRC has stock calapers, and rotors but it also has racing pads ( PFC 01 or Carbotech XP1109 pads) and hight temp brake fluid, AND lots of cooling air going to each corner. This combination, to me, is the best braking you can get for your dollar. I run aftermarket rotors that cost $19 (yes $19) each. The pads run anywhere from $165 to $188 for the fronts, and the fluid is not much more than the factory fill stuff. The best solution for fading brakes, either fluid induced or pad/rotor interfacd induced, is removing the heat from the brakes by channeling lots of cooling air to each brake. The aftermarket "super" brake kits are even better, because of larger diameter rotors and more clamping pressure on the rotor, but they too will get very hot if the heat is not removed from them during severe use.

Try using the "stock" system with racing pads, high temp fluid, and cooling air to the brakes. This system works great for me and a lot of other guys I know that run very hard on the track. :thumbs:

sebrock

I think I'm going to go for different pads, probably Hawks. How do I get more air to the front brakes, the car already has ducts?

Also to answer someone elses questions - I am being hampered by the brakes becasue even if I could get the car to go faster with more HP, I wouldn't be able to stop the car quick enough (consistenly due to fade) to take the corner at the proper speed.

Is it possible to lock the brakes when you have fade?

sebrock

[QUOTE] Your ceramic pads are your biggest problem, second problem are you drilled disk, both of those products are made for the street only. How are you being "hampered" by your brakes?[QUOTE]

That is my conclusion, ceramic is great keeps my wheels clean but once they get heated they dissipate heat so well that if I can't get enough ventillation its a nightmare.

vette.se

See my post earlier in this thread :D

The stock ducting blows air on your tire to no use, add the DRM ducts and the LG rotor adapters. Take a look at http://forums.corvetteforum.com/zerothread?id=660430

:cheers:

speedjohnson

Get a set of good roadrace pads; either Performance Friction 93's, or Hawk HT-10's up front/ Blue 9012 in the rear, add a set of DRM C5 front brake ducts, loose the crossdrilled rotors and you should have a set up that will run you at least 8-10 hard laps, then you need to learn to scrub off speed by using less brake and throwing the car into the corner until your brakes cool..at least for a couple of laps, rinse, repeat. sj

sebrock

Thank you all very much. All of your advice has been extremely helpful.

VETFVER

You need a higher temperature pad for starters. For your needs a racing pad is best. However, they fade when cold at the first/second stop of the day.

Slow cooling causes rotors to warp so driving around until that rotor cools.

Dan :yesnod:

Richin Chicago

Watch the cross drilled rotors very carefully. I have never seen a set yet that doesn't crack with enough track time. And, of course, get rid of the ceramic pads.

John Shiels

When you get the pads that stop good watch because they create tons of heat while stopping you. Then you will melt all the ball joint covers. The rubber lines are not balloons so worry about them last.

Mitch Alsup

You need some higher temp pads, and you need air ducting to the brakes. High temp pads without more air is just postponing the problem.