RacerChris

Last Time I ran, I didn't adjust the pressure in my Nitto Extremes, so I was running about 28 psi. Afterwards, I noticed that the sidewalls were scuffed, indicating that I was "pushing" tire. So higher pressure seems indicated. What pressure do you recommend?

Richin Chicago

Last time I started at 39 front 36 back. The tires seemed quick and stuck very well. I'm still experimenting but that seemed like a pretty good starting point. As a further reference point I use 36F 34R on a roadcourse.

AFVETTE

I'd contact the manufacture. Your risking too much to blindly fiddling with tire pressures.

Tom

7LitreC5

I use 37/35 in my Pilot Sports and they seem to be wearing pretty well.

Richin Chicago

I'm sorry but I have to ask. What are the risks?

RacerChris

So the consensus is to run more in the front, then the back....

AFVETTE

A tire separating from the wheel, which I have seen happen during an AX event. I'm confused; you'll take the time to ask complete strangers but won't ask the tire manufacture. I don't get it - why ask in the first place if you don't really want an answer?

Tom

tboneinsc

You guys seem to be pretty close to what I run on my Bridgestone S03s. I like a little more air pressure in the rear tires than you all are running but I still have higher PSI in the fronts than the rears. As for the tires coming off the rim, it is probably from NOT over inflating them and the tire rolling over on the sidewall. Drag racers that have never auto crossed are the ones that usually need advice on adding air instead of letting it out of the rears.

AFVETTE glad to seem someone still believes in Tech Data though and that car of yours sure looks 35-10.

Richin Chicago

A tire may come off of a rim from underinflation (or a puncture) but in 30+ years I have never seen it occuron a properly inflated (or overinflated) tire.

I take your point in asking a tire manufacturer about inflation if you can find a guy that will take the time to talk to you that even knows what autocross is. But in these days of lawsuit dejur I am guessing all you will get is "do what the manufacturer puts on the door jamb"

One of the reasons I will trust other people is that they have been there and done that. What I do is start with a "guesstimate" pressure and chalk the tires. When I see how much chalk is gone I add or remove air until the chalk is removed right up to tread edge.
Too me, it's not dangerous and it is not rocket science. You just want an inflation pressure that gives you as much tread contact, and quick response as possible without rollover.

J-Rod

Depends on the course, the conditions, the temps, etc... A good rule of thumsb is to mark your sidewalls with something (chalk, shoe polish, etc)... Look at the sidewalls after a runs, see where you are hitting. If you are too much on the sidewalls, begin adjusting your pressure up. Once you have a bit more experience on the auto-x courses, you can get a feel for your car and feel if you need more air in the tires. I believe a few folks have given their initial pressures they run.


Here are some suggestions from over on Z06vette.com
http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showt...+tire+pressure

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pro, I am by no means an "expert", but here are some tips from a newbie:

You will wear the outside 1 inch edge of your tires with the stock Z06 alignment. But it won't be that bad so long as you have sufficient air pressure in them. Mine held up very well. I would start out with at least 40 PSI in the front and 36 PSI in the back (warm pressures, subtract 3-4 PSI for cold).

I started with 44 PSI in front and 40 in back which was a bit too high. I got more grip by dropping the pressure down. Fill the tires up at the last gas station on your way to the event if you can, or use the pump kit. You can lower the tire pressure from there to try and get some more grip.

If you decide to stick with autocross, you can dial in more negative camber to get better tire wear and grip.

I would make sure you have at least 7 quarts of oil in the car (MAX on *my* dipstick). My feeling is this should be enough for most autocrosses since the car never stays in one corner or at WOT for a long period of time. But if your really worried, put in 7.5 quarts (half over MAX on *my* dipstick). From what I remember Ron Marks starts out with 7.5 when road racing, but only has 6.5 left when he is done.

You will need some numbers and class designation letters for the side of the car. You can't put the numbers on the windows, it has to be on the doors. If you not sure your going to stick with autocross, I would just get some low-tack masking tape (the blue stuff) and use that for your numbers and letters. (Bring some scissors with you).

Keep AH on in Competitive Mode. It actually lets you get the rear end a little loose without kicking in (very nice). When it does kick in, it will slow you down more than you want, but it does an amazing job keeping novices (guys like me) from looking like fools. Once you get used to the car (after an event or two) you may wish to try shutting it off.

The less fuel you have, the less weight to accelerate: but you also want to balance the car and make sure your fuel pump doesn't cavitate. I would say don't worry about it at first and just make sure you have at least a half a tank.

Have fun, it's a blast. Don't worry about being competitive at first, just learn and have fun!

Oh yeah, bring some water to drink, some food to eat, a hat and some sunscreen! Oh yeah and a Snell 90 or better helmet.

JMO, don't waste your money on vinyl numbers unless they have a low stick adhesive. The static cling vinyl is next to worthless on my car.


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06-06-2002 07:28 PM
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I've been autocrossing on and off for about four years now. (All but one event in a '98 Cobra.) This is what I would suggest:

Bring - sunscreen, a folding chair, an accurate tire pressure gauge, plenty of water, your helmet, a pen, shoe polish
Leave - your ego at home (your first autocross can be humbling)

In my only event in the Z, I ran cold pressures of 35 psi front and 33 psi rear. At the next event, I will try 34 PSI front and 31.5 PSI rear. The sidewalls of the F1's don't seem to need as much pressure as the Comp T/A's on my previous car. (Then again, the Comp T/A sidewalls were apparently made of paper mache.)

My tires wore evenly and did not visibly lose much tread. However, I was running on a very slippery concrete surface. Your tread wear will vary substantially depending on the track surface. The important thing is that the tires showed a nice, even wear pattern.

As the owner's manual suggests, run the car 1 quart above the fill line. I ran on 1/2 a tank of gas to avoid any fuel pick up problems. (I'm pretty sure you can run with much less fuel, but I like to err on the side of safety.)

Counter to conventional wisdom, I would suggest turning off traction control AND active handling unless the course is littered with curbs or light posts. I find it rewarding to be in complete control of the car, and I think that you will be pleasantly surprised with the car's forgiving handling.

I found the car extremely neutral on turn-in and mid-corner. It's very easy to adjust the car's attitude with throttle. The car really does handle like a huge go kart. The F1's slide very progressively and gave me plenty of time to catch the back of the car.

One last bit of advice. The car will bite you if you are not smooth on the throttle. I got on the accelerator a little too soon and lot too deep, and the car spun instantly. (Not the car's fault. I just got a little eager on the throttle.)

The car is plenty quick. I'm no Michael Schumacher, but even I ended up turning quicker times than a C5 on Hoosiers, a 600+ rwhp Viper with Wilwoods, and a raft of highly modded WRX's. (Those things were killer on the slippery surface.)


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06-06-2002 07:52 PM
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Also try 2nd gear if the course is long enough and not too tight. The torque is much more manageble in 2nd that in 1st. Start out in 1st but quickly go to 2nd and leave it there.

Lowereing the Car and a competition alignment will help
-1.5 Camber Front
all the + castor you can get and
Neutral Toe

-1.0 Rear Camber
1/8 to 1/4" toe in each side rear

Starting Tire pressures (cold) for GY F1's 31F, 29R
You could also "chalk" the side wall of the tire in 3 equidistant places where the side wall meets the shoulder of the tread. This will show you if the tire pressure is adequate, to high or to low. If your rubbing chalk off the side wall the tire is rolling in the corners and the pressure is too low. Like wise the tire tread wear should extend over to the shoulders and just meet the chalk at the little triangles, if it doesn't the pressure is too high.

Don't try to smoke the tires at a local event, Just get the rears hooked up at the start and then accelerate thru the timing gate. Use Competition Mode your first couple events; then when you are comfortable with the car turn the AH & TC off. If the course is wet always use Comp Mode.

Transitioning the car smoothly by easing in or rolling on the throttle, brakes and steering rather than throwing the car and jamming on the brakes and tromping on the gas. You my find that driving at 90% of what you thought you should will make you faster.

Remove all loose objests from the car including the rear compartment.

Have fun and meet a lot of nice people.


Last edited by DJWorm on 06-07-2002 at 08:30 AM

06-06-2002 09:54 PM
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You have been given great advice in this thread. I would only add that if the course has some dangers (for instance if it is at a road course or track and not a parking lot) use the comp. mode for some added safety. Look at the outside edge of you F1SCs and you'll see a trainge arrow. The tires should roll to that arrow tip. On a low speed autox track, that will probably be around 33 front and 31 cold pressure. Maybe a little more if the track is fast with some hard turns. Some guys do run a lot more air, but use that arrow tip as your guide. Be sure to let the excess air out when you drive home.


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06-06-2002 10:36 PM
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It looks like you have some good info to start with. I will add a few. One of the most difficult aspects of Auto X in knowing how to drive the course. This will come with time. For starters, make sure you get there early and get all the registration and BS out the way and start walking the course. You need to walk the course at least 3 times. Do at least 2 walks by your self and focus on knowing the course. Some times I seperate the course into sections. I like to be able to drive the course in my head from start to finish. New guys often will get lost on course and get what is called a DNF( did not finish ). It is normal for new guys to DNF seveal if not all of their runs. I feel this is do to not walking the course. Forget about making notes about what you will do on the course. Everything will come up so fast that your notes will not help. Any chance you can, walk the course. Walking in normally just allowed in the morning.

If it is raining, I like to drive with all the computer stuff on( AH on ). It is real hard to beat the anti slip of the AH.

Do not be upset if you get beat by a girl in a neon or a miata. You have a beast to manage and some course designs are small car friendly. You will gett'um later

Most courses are very safe but not stupid proof. If you over drive the car and not give it up when getting out of control, you can hurt something or some body. No trophy is worth trashing the car. Still much safer than drag racing in my book.

Don't forget to have fun.


http://www.z06vette.com/forums/showt...+tire+pressure


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Need help with tire pressure
Hi guys. I know very little about car tire pressures. When I do an autocross event what tire pressure should I be running on all fours?

If I were to do a track event, what tire pressure should I be running onall fours?

What about drag racing?

What about agressive street driving?

The factory recommends 30 psi on all fours.

I appreciate any constructive feedback. Thanks.
RK



11-26-2002 09:14 AM
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For Auto X 30 -31 in the front and 28 to 30 in the rear for stock F1-SC tires are a good starting point.

It also depends on your suspension set up and how agressive you are ie. how much negative camber front and rear and how much toe in in the rear.

I quick way to gauge tire effectiveness is to place 3 chalk marks equidistant on the shoulders of each tire. If you are rolling the tire (are underinflated) the chalk will start to be removed. If you are over inflated the chaalk won't be touched. Also look closely at the shoulder area of the tire and you will see some small raised triangles.....the wear patern should reach those.

Another good way is to check tire temperatures. Using a tire pyrometer measure the inside middle and outside of the tread contact area and see if there is any difference. With negative camber dialed in the inner edge will be hotter. Then a graduall decrease to the outside edge. All temps ideally should be with in 10 degrees. You can adjust with 1-2# pressure increaments. If the mid temp is higher than the edges your over inflated. If the edges are both hotter than the mid your under inflated.

If you run Hoosiers or other Race or DOT race tires your starting pressures will be higher around 40 psi, sometomes lower in the rear for traction. We use a 4 psi spread front to rear.

For the track I start my race tires 5 psi lower than AutoX because I am putting more heat into them for longer periods of time. I usually end up running lower depending on track temp and surface condition.

If you are running the GY F1-Sc's on the track you should again start in the 30 psi range cold and adjust accordingly.

Longacre has good Tire guages and pyrometers.



11-26-2002 12:29 PM
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Wierd!!!
Hi. Thanks for the 411. What's really wierd was when I was at BeaverRun (Wampum, PA) there was a few Vettes there.... I asked what TP were you runing on the Auto X..... the lady and dudes come back at me with 38-48 PSI!!!!!!! I was amazed and confused. I'm still confused.

I e-mailed Michelin and they said to use a pyrometer across the whole tire. If that's the case then waht temp should the tire be at.

Anyhow I ran the Auto X @ 33PSI..... I have stock Goodyear F1 Supercar tires. The sidewalls are pristine but little to no flex.

Anyone else care to interject cuz I'm still confused.
Thanks

Drive safe

RK



11-26-2002 03:11 PM
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TP
The raised triangles are still there on the side wall.
I'm running a stock Z06. Nothing modified except brake rotors.



11-26-2002 03:13 PM
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Follow the Worm's advice..... for auto-cross keep lowering
the pressure until your wear pattern just touches the triangle tip!!!

I run 32 front 30 rear cold for high speed tracks and just "nudge" the triangles. My vette is lowered and I have added negitive Camber. See your Z06 tape!! You will have to "bleed" pressure after your first high speed session back to 32/30. Good luck!



11-26-2002 06:13 PM
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There is some good info on this topic at tire tech on tirerack.com (one of our sponsors): http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tiret...on/racepres.htm


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11-26-2002 06:35 PM
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We run higher pressures at Beaver Run because we are running Hoosiers. They like a higher pressure than the stock GY F1 SC's.

A good starting point for the Hoosier's is 44 front, 40 rear.
For the GY F1SC's a good starting point is 31 front, 28 rear.

We did some skid pad testing and found that the Hoosier settings at 44/40 were equally as fast as 36/32. The recommended National Pro Solo Champs 40/36 settings were actually slower on the fresh black top. We noww use the 36/32 settings for asphalt and the 44/40 settings for concrete, because it is grippier.

Surprisingly we found that 38/32 was faster on the concrete at the National Championships. It is all trial and erroe.


Last edited by DJWorm on 11-27-2002 at 09:54 AM

11-27-2002 09:45 AM
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Re: Wierd!!!
quote:
Originally posted by cholocholo41
Anyhow I ran the Auto X @ 33PSI..... I have stock Goodyear F1 Supercar tires. The sidewalls are pristine but little to no flex.

Anyone else care to interject cuz I'm still confused.



I run auto X too, so maybe I could provide some insight. The only reason to increase the tire pressure for auto X is to increase the sidewall stiffness of the tire to prevent the tire from 'rolling over' on its outer edge. The stiffer the sidewall, the more contact patch you will have under hard cornering.

The Eagle F1 Supercars on our cars already have a very stiff sidewall, and low profile, even at the stock 30 psi pressure. There is no need to increase the pressure with these tires for auto-x. In fact, I experimented with bumping the pressure up to 40 psi, and the car handled like crap. Traction was way down. I put the pressure back to 30 psi, and it was great - like a different set of tires. And looking at the tires after 6 runs, there was no wear on the sidewall, so there was no roll over going on at the stock pressure.

Now MOST street tires do need extra pressure for auto-x use, as their sidewalls aren't as stiff as the F1 SCs. For example, when I auto-x'd my daily driver ('96 Contour SE), with its somewhat cruddy Eagle HPs, I bumped the pressure up to 42 psi to increase the sidewall stiffness, and it helped tremendously. Chatting with other veteran drivers in my STS class, most were running the same pressure I was. And even with this pressure, the outer edge of my tire near the sidewall was getting very chewed up.

Bottom line: with the F1 SC's, just show up to the course with the stock pressure, and you'll be fine.


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11-28-2002 07:59 AM
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Tire pressure and Oversteer?!?!?!
Another problem I tried to solve using tire pressure was the OVERSTEER the Z06 has. OH MY GOD! It's tremendous! Why did GM engineer such a car with so much oversteer.... so much that I couldn't see out of the windshield... felt like I was riding a wave of water on my belly. Baer Claw gave me this handy tool of info regarding suspension and handling.... it mentioned higher tire pressure in the rear and less in the front to increase understeer.

Indeed you are correct..... the Goodyear F1 Supercar tires have stiff sidewalls hence the fact that other dudes ran higher pressures to make the sidewall STIFFER didn't make sense to me. I looked at my tires and they looked normal.

Done deal then... I'm sticking with 30PSI all around for all uses. I suppose stock factory is always the best.

Thanks guys. Have a happy Thanksgiving!

DRIVE SAFE!!!

RK



11-28-2002 08:56 AM
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Re: Tire pressure and Oversteer?!?!?!
quote:
Originally posted by cholocholo41
Another problem I tried to solve using tire pressure was the OVERSTEER the Z06 has. OH MY GOD! It's tremendous! Why did GM engineer such a car with so much oversteer


I found the oversteer is purely throttle induced, meaning the car only oversteers if you have your foot in the gas. However, due to the light weight and tremendous torque, it doesn't take much throttle at all to put the car in an oversteer condition. Normal for a high HP, high torque rear wheel drive car.

The car itself seems to be fairly neutral handling, with just a hint of understeer when you're not in the gas.

All this power makes auto-x very tricky with this car. Just a bit too much gas too early coming out of a turn and WHAMO! Instant spin or oversteer so much you're taking out cones.

Drive it well though, and the car rewards like no other. A look at the SCCA Solo II and Pro Solo champions and you see the field is dominated by Z06s for the past 2 years.

I like this quote from Sports Car magazine (November 2002) from ProSolo champion John Ames:

"The champ also remarked that his Z06 is 'the best car I have ever owned,' high praise from someone who spent most of his career at Ford! He plans to stick with the 'Vette next year. Unless, that is, he gets the urge to buy a new one!"

So there you have it from perhaps the best autocross driver in the country.


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11-28-2002 10:12 AM
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quote:
Another problem I tried to solve using tire pressure was the OVERSTEER the Z06 has. OH MY GOD! It's tremendous!


Cholocholo,
I haven't seen this with my 02 and concur with Z06ified that the oversteer is throttle induced.
However, I did change my camber significantly before ever taking the car on the track. I set my camber max negative (about -1.7 front and -1.3 rear) without camber plates before my first track day. I ran two days at Roebling Road in Savannah on the F1s with this set up and found the car very neutral tending towards slight understeer with this setup. The next two days at Roebling I ran CCW wheels with 275 Hoosiers up front and 315 Hoosiers in the rear. With the extra rubber in the rear the car tended more towards understeer in the long sweepers but I could put the power down earlier too. I played with the pressures a little to dial out some of the understeer.
My last track day of the year was at Portland International Raceway in sort of a bastardized set up. I had put on the GM T1 sway bars but I didn't have the CCWs with me, so I ran on street tires, but a mixed setup: Kumho Ecstas (275) front and the stock F1s in the rear. I thought the car was going to be looser with this set up, but it understeered more. Not sure if it was the T1 sway bars or the difference between the Kumhos and the F1s. Either way, again, I played with the pressures until I got it near neutral and had a great day.


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11-28-2002 10:33 AM
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cholocholo41
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Cornering???
How would one get a 2002 Z06 through a corner (270 degree) while on the gas?

Too much gas the car spins.

Driving through it while on the gas.... lots of oversteer-wierd feeling, the tires are SCREECHING/screaming.

How do I get a Z06 to drive NEUTRAL steer? Is it possible.

Sincerely,
RK



11-28-2002 01:19 PM