djstylze

Someone please explain why you can't say who the vendor is? I thought one of the benefits from forums is getting a good (or bad) reference for shop work.

:skep:

H82BFST

LS6 heads have a lot of core shift, even compared to the LS1 head. I have heard of CNC programs and even hand porting that has thinned the spring seat area to much. There are vendors that adapt their program based on the head but man did they have fun dealing with the core shift initially. Some as mentioned reinforce the area, etc.. etc..

I am surprised that this vendor that you are having an issue with has this problem since they should have the GM information.

Sorry to hear about this problem Andy.

brent eb02

AS MUCH MONEY AS LPE MAKES THEY CANT SEND ANOTHER SET OF HEADS?????

I HOPE PEOPLE LEARN FROM THIS !!!!

ID BE PISSED OFF!!!

ScreaminDemon

Not many shops can weld aluminum, but if it can be welded, you should contact Wade at ARE. My heads are ported to the max, 2.08/ 1.60 valves with 977cc springs for a solid cam. One of my heads was alittle overported and ARE had me send it back so they could send it out to be welded. It was a very good job. I hate I had to take the head back off, but no one is perfect all the time. Wade said if I ever have a problem with the other head, just send it back and they will take care of it for me. I like people who go all out for ya'!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :cheers:

ScreaminDemon

I'm not trying to hyjack this thread, but to make a point to members that read this and get tuner-shock. I did months of investigative work getting info off this forum and calling and talking to as many tuners as possible. If a tuner is just going to throw hp/tq #'s at you, don't go with him! If he will give some/most specs on the package without revieling all, then he is someone who you can work with and will talk to you straight, and can stay on the phone after the install to work out any details or problems. Any tuner can throw out hp and tq #'s, but knowing what to expect with the various cam and valve sizes, I needed them to prove it first(more details). Getting a tuner to offer you his time and hopefully infinant wisdom is worth much more to me.

Sir Sel

I've experienced a few tuners in my day and the learning curve is expensive and inconvenient. There are at least two requirements for my money now. Quality of work and service after the sale. Hopefully this situation will come to a happy conclusion.

SpinMonster

I am not one to proclaim perfection nor do I suggest any tuner should be pounded for a lack of it. I am merely saying that to the vender, it is the cost of the cores only. They would not be out of 2500 but about 1200 or so for a new set of LS6. If only one head is damaged then it is 600. The vender can supply the labor for free to port a matching head or heads at no cost just to make good on an unhappy customer.

I guess the business ethic here is ONCE YOU ESTABLISH YOURSELF AS ONE OF THE BEST THEN YOU DON'T HAVE TO PLEASE EVERYONE TO GET CUSTOMERS. THUS SCREW THE BAD JOB AND MOVE ON NOW THAT YOU CAN PICK AND CHOOSE YOUR WORK.

I don't buy it. If this is lingenfelter, then i would like to point out that those overpriced packages don't do any better then cars produced by the sanely priced cars from vette docs or cartek.....

Hey look I put 725hp in this chevy monza for 120 k .....see how fast it goes
but I dont have time to make good on the little guy

Go to a local vender and talk to the owner who stands behind his work.

J-Rod

I brought this up on ls1tech. One of the common things that has come up was many folks feel like perhaps this set of heads had some really bad core shift. As SDPC sells 60 sets a month, you'd expect to see more failures if the rocker bosses tearing out of the heads was an issue.

As for welding up heads, it is done all the time. My buddies shop welds up a lot of import and domestic heads. Especially since it is at the top of the head, and not likely to see much heat, I don't think I would worry about it all that much if you decide to weld them. But, my advice would be to see if someone can make good on them since they seem to be a bit on the thin side.

Is the other head just as thin?

As for BeC seats, lots of folks run those. I run them in my GN heads, and I know tons of folks who run them in race motors. So far I haven't had any issues, and I really don't know of anyone who have had any issues with dropping BeC seats.

J-Rod

Just wanted to post this as a counterpoint....
http://www.ls1tech.com/threads/showf...5&o=14&fpart=1
--------------------------------------------------

robertbartsch
Launching!



Reged: 08/28/02
Posts: 558
Loc: Hartsdale, NY
Re: GM CNC LS-6 Head failure
#551839 - 06/04/03 07:48 AM



I just installed a set of SDPC CNC LS6 heads. Since I'm using REV double springs, I checked the thickness between the intake port and the bottom of the spring seat before installation.

Although this was not scientific in that I did not take measurements, I did compare the thickness to the thickness of my old stock LS1` heads. This was done by finger feel only.

In my case, the thinckness difference between the two heads did not seem great and I don't expect any issues.

My castings carried a Lingfelter production tag from January 2003. If you have issues with SDPC not covering the damage, I would ask Lingefelter to investigate since it is their CNC work.

I heard of this same event happening with another CNC porting shop (an LS1 Tech sponsor) with a LS1 head casting. This occured several months ago and I believe the post indicated that the damage was fully covered.

--------------------------------------------------------

21STCENTURYMUSCLECAR

I have no accurate information on this particular problem or know for a fact the parties involved but what I can say is that almost every single week that I have been in business I have heard complaints as well as seen what appears to be shoddy work from quite a few "Big Name" tuners, including several blown motors and numerous other questionable installs as well as several ongoing and upcoming lawsuits that I have limited knowledge of.
I know that there are two sides to every "story" and choose not to get involved based on one side of the story. It can appear very self-serving
to bad mouth your competition without full knowledge of particular situations.
I can tell everyone that if I do have a dissatisfied customer that I will make every effort to make them happy and correct the problem immediately and if my shop is talked about in a negative manner on a important public forum I can assure you that I will immediately post my side of the story.

Best Regards,
John Page
Twenty First Century Muscle Cars
Authorized Lingenfelter Performance Dealer http://www.21stcenturymusclecars.com

Ed@Lingenfelter

I would like to respond to some of the comments being made. One of our engineers has been trying to respond, but is having log-in problems with his screen name.

These are our heads, and we do build a lot of them, and I see that everyone is pretty quick to jump on the "I hate LPE bandwagon" but if any of you would have taken the time to look at some facts, you would probably have a different opinion.

Fact # 1: This particular solution was implemented by John himself, and it is an acceptable solution. We have all tried very hard to keep doing things the way John taught us to, and I take offense at the statements that things would be different if he were here.

Fact # 2: This particular pair of heads was altered after we shipped them, our standard procedure is to have them sent back to us and completely check them out before a warranty authorization is given. We don't know for sure what work was done, therefore we cannot simply give a full refund.

Fact # 3: Our sales manager did work out a mutually acceptable agreement with the customer. If you notice, there is not one complaint from him, this is all started by Andy( Who is the same person that modified the heads) obviously he has a vested interest.

Fact # 4: LPE does spend a considerable amount of time offering service after the sale on every product we sell, as well as technical help on other vendors products, when people are having a problem. I personally spend at least half of my day answering questions, and trying to help forum members solve problems. We are very access-able, and I don't think anyone will deny that.

We are working on this problem and will get it resolved, but I think it is very unprofessional of Andy to jump in a public forum and start bashing another tuner (without naming names). We don't participate in internet trash talking, but if Andy would like to discuss the failed double valve spring he installed, he can call our engineer, Graham Behan at his convenience.

As always, if anyone has any questions or comments feel free to contact me.

Ed

corvette dave

Andy,
I suggest you re-read your original post.
I have no idea why you are posting about this issue. It is someone elses problem to work out with LPE.
Then you throw in a couple of obvious hints on who the tuner was who sold the heads. That was so unprofessional.
I suspect you would be extremely upset if one of your customers bashed you over a disagreement on parts or service.
There is a difference in explaining a problem and bashing.
Dave

Shinobi'sZ

Andy were you BASHING????
It looks like because of your post the customer has went from getting the FU from the MAJOR tuner to the "I will give you 1/2 price for fixing our FU".....

I would like to hear Loyd's side of the story..then we will see who got bashed right off the bat. $3000 for a set of blower heads is what I think he told me the last time I talked to him.


[Modified by Shinobi'sZ, 11:16 AM 6/4/2003]


[Modified by Shinobi'sZ, 11:19 AM 6/4/2003]

onfire

Props to Ed Potter and LPE. They always take the "high road". :cheers:

Ed@Lingenfelter

Shinobi's Z - not true at all, the customer was made the offer the same day he called and made us aware of the problem.


Ed

Shinobi'sZ

Ed,
I was hoping to hear both sides...it always helps in these matters. Sometimes it is hard to say what transpires when one customer goes to another tuner and states that, "they won't warranty my work because of what you did" all as it does is **** everybody off. If anything is achieved out of this...it is that you guys are working with him and Andy to get his car fixed....that is what is important....if it takes 2 business's working together with the customer to get a customer's car working...than I don't think anybody has anything to bitch about. :cheers:

SpinMonster

It appears that the difference in oppinion is what constitutes 'altered'. What you call internet bashing is unfortunately for you, is simply consumers making recommendations to each other based on heresay. I personally have received many IM's about the topic and none came from Andy.

The purpose of this forum is exactly what is happening here. You use the forum to your advantage by advertising here and being know as a 'forum tuner'. Customers from here trust you simply for that fact alone and thus when an issue comes up here perhaps you shuld re-think your policy on responding to the things read here and stop calling feedback bashing.

You are fast to publish articles and feedback when it is positive and call it bashing when anyone says something negative. (Andy is also entitled to an opinion) I weigh each equally and expect a public response as necessary as this forum has put money in your pockets. A response from you should have appeared sooner since WE deserve to know if you deserve the trust this forum offers.

Just to make my point clearer, I have no vested interest in this situation but in the search for fairness I'll help with a minor band-aid so this guy doesn't get screwed: If the only 'alteration' to the heads was the change of valvesprings with no cutting involved (clearing Andy) and you still don't think you have messed up a set of heads, I will personally put $100 toward a new set of heads for him to lessen your pain. IM me if that is the case. If the heads were cut then Andy should say that....but then he already gave DETAILS as to what happened.

Perhaps YOU should say what 'Altered' is. If not, get off our forum. It doesn't exist for you, it exists for this type of feedback.

Ed@Lingenfelter

Thanks Shinobi, the bottom line is getting the customer back on the road!

Ed

MaxPower

(If not, get off our forum. It doesn't exist for you)

Umm the sponsors pay to support the forum. :mad

SpinMonster

Um, the forum wouldn't exist if there were no buyers for those advertisers. Funny how all you had to comment on was that line....how about the one that said 'give your side'....or 'the guy is getting screwed'......or 'Andy has the right to an opinion' (and he pays to support the forum too)...or um, maybe what 'we' talk about isn't bashing.....oh yeah, 'lingenfelter supports the forum'..ok, guy, go back to sleep.