0Ken King

I had the Vette Dyno'd two weeks ago as a base line then put on a set of Belanger long tube headers and a Corsa x pipe, then I ran it thru the dyno again.
I have a 2002 Z06 and it was completly stock on the first run.
This was a mustang dyno.
350.2 hp
351.4 tq
two weeks later with only the header and x pipe install same dyno.
348 hp
347 tq
The tech checked for codes and to see if the timing and other stuff I don't know anything about was running ok and said that it showed all is fine with the factory programing.
Any ideas?????
I'm putting a Vara Ram on next then back to the dyno. should I have it tuned after all the new parts are in?
Could useing the factory mufflers be part of the problem?

Ken




[Modified by Ken King, 2:34 AM 2/14/2003]

batsallover

From other threads regarding header installs, to take full advantage of them, they should be tuned in. :yesnod:


[Modified by batsallover, 4:15 PM 2/13/2003]

MattG

Ken, did you put any miles on the car after the header install before you put it back on the dyno? The PCM might have some relearning to do..

Headers usually richen up a Z06 pretty bad at WOT which could cause some power loss.

Also, Belangers havent been showing that great of results lately for anyone, and even Xtreme has stopped selling them because of this problem..

I honestly dont care for the Tri-Y design they are.. I prefer a 4 into 1 like the Stainless Works, TTS, TPIS and FLP use.

Definitely make sure you give the car some PCM relearn time with the Vararam before you throw it back on the dyno. Also, you have to take into consideration when you do mods like this that you are throwing the tuning and air/fuel mixtures out of wack, which might make it look like you didnt gain any power when in reality you did gain potential power, but how your car is now running after the mods is not letting you tap into it.




[Modified by MattG, 4:20 PM 2/13/2003]

0Ken King

Matt I drove it about 80 to 100 miles before it went back to the Dyno. It's tough to get road time as you know with snow on the roads every other day.
I knew that programing would optimize but I expected as least something on the plus side.
Batsallover: Thanks for the heads up!. Changed,.

Mike Mercury

Matt; this wouldn't matter with WOT runs????? :confused:

jschindler

I have friends who have picked up 20 rwhp on 02 Z06's with FLP's and _______ (Insert cold air intake of your choice) with no "tuning".

Mark VerMurlen

Ken, You really need to get the Air/Fuel ratio checked while on the dyno. If the place that did your dyno run doesn't have the equipment to measure it (not all do), then go to another place. I'm betting you are either really rich or really lean. You're probably going to need some A/F ratio tuning to get the power you should from the headers. I don't think the muffler system or X pipe is affecting your car. If you're going to have more parts put on the car, do the tuning afterwards.

After having TPIS headers put on my car, I found I'm running a little lean. I can probably pick up a couple more horses myself by getting my A/F ratio back to optimum too.

- Mark

Ram Air Tony

:eek:

that would be disheartening.....but rest assured, it will learn or something is wrong :yesnod:

let us know how it goes

thanks

CRUZMISL

Ken,
I had my car dynoed on the same one you had yours done on and here are my results. This is with Stainlessworks headers though but will at least give you an idea of what should go on. Also mine is a 2001 and I have a Blackwing.

MY baseline with just the blackwing was,
334.6HP
333.9 TQ

After headers and zero tuning I got,
346.8 HP
344.2 TQ

After tuning,
356.6 HP
350.1 TQ

Something is wrong with your scenario or the headers are not working on your car. If they said the A/F ratio was OK then I'd imagine it should be OK. Hell, I can imagine if they had a chance to pull $400 for tuning from you they would have:confused:

Let me know when you want to install the Vararam:)

Here are the dyno sheets

BLU-BY-U

Cruzmisl, do you still have the stock main brick cat, and just eliminate the pup, or did you go offroad?

0Ken King

Joe Rich said the A/F ratio was fine. $400.00 for tuning? Did he give you a discount? I called the company that sold me the headers and the owner is calling Belanger to see if they have anything to say about the results. he's already told me that they would take them back if thats what I want.
I fully understand the idea of tuning and it's benefits but headers are put on Vette's every day and show results with out tuning, with tuning coming later to squeeze out the last bits of power.

Joe it went on the wheel dollies last night so anytime for the install. Just say when...

CRUZMISL

Blu, I just removed the pups. I still have the main cats.

He did give me a discount. I had to argue for it though.....for a while. I'm cheap.

I'll give you a ring when I get a free weekend and we can install the vararam.

Joe

C5 CU

from my base i picked-up about 7rwhp from breathless, then 16rwhp from TPIS headers and 8 from tuning (383rwhp).

AFVETTE

It's threads like these that keep me on the fence re headers. I'm going to spend my $$$ on a dyno tune and see what that nets me. 15 to 20 HP is easily achieved with a dyno tune. My goal is 320 RWHP.

Tom
USAF Retired

LG Motorsports

I just got a dyno report from a customer in NC with a 03 Z06 after an LG Stainless Long tube install, with a Vararam. On a Dynojet dyno he pulled

391rwhp , 400rwtq. No tuning.

Needless to say, he is very happy.

I like the Tri-y theory, and we even used a tri-y design on our Daytona car, but the Balangers were too restrictive for our latest G5X-2 cam and head package. We gained 15 rwhp when we replaced them with our LG Long Tubes. There is only a 1/2" donut shaped space for the exhaust to get around in the collector. there is a "hot dog" shaped center "diverter" in the Ballanger collector which I do not like at all.
In theory the Tri-y should give more low end torque. Old British cars, the MGB and Triumph spitfire used a tri-y to help get torque out of a 1600cc engine. But with a C5 with 5700cc I am not sure that it is the best answer.

Later,

Lou G


[Modified by LG Motorsports, 8:50 AM 2/14/2003]

CRUZMISL

AFVETTE, you won't get that much HP with just a dyno tune. HEaders are a good idea but you need to buy the right ones and work even better if you have a cam or heads.

Lou, how much of the HP gain is due to the high flow cats?

Joe

MattG

The Long Term Fuel Trims are what adjust themselves when you put miles on the car after a new mod is installed. These long term fuel trims definitely do effect what happens at WOT. If the car is reading positive Fuel Trims after the header install because it leaned the car out, this extra Fuel Trim fuel will then be dumped in, along with the extra WOT/PE fuel which then makes things rich.

However, if they were closely monitoring the WOT a/f with a wideband and it was in the range they usually make the most power with, then I dont think tuning would help much in this case, unless it involves adding some extra timing, which an 01-03 Z06 could always use as it comes set pretty low from the factory.

Mike Mercury

What I remember reading (and am looking for the text now) was that the long term fuel trims are only looked at for a few milliseconds at the beginning of WOT... as a starting point reference. Buit then the PCM relies solely on live data from then on during the WOT run.

Am I not remembering this correctly?

Dicecal

I installed belanger headers on my 2001 Coupe and only got a 10hp and 10 tq improvement over stock. I thinik It's pretty clear the belangers are not worth the money.

Gordy M

Ken

One of our club members (CCM) should be able to help you--Danny Kelermeyer. Send me a private email or call me and I can give you more info if needed.