When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
(I bought a BTR 4 cam already installed in my C5 Z06. The LS6 engine in this car has been heavily modified to use this cam I think - it has ETP heads, forged pistons and connecting rods, a different crankshaft and stronger valve springs, plus a FAST 92mm +varam intake and an LS2 throttle body.
the exhaust is stainless -American Racing headers w cats, but they are not factory cats, given that the rear oxygen sensors are missing and are bridged probably by litle sealed boxes containing probably resistors)
From what I've read on the forums, this cam should be fine for track riding, but not so much for street riding in relatively casual riding.
I bought the car visibly slightly damaged, I only drove it a few meters and now I am repairing it. I have my engine now disassembled at my mechanic friend to replace all the crankshaft and connection rods bearings. In addition, all seals on the engine will be replaced, as well as the timing chain and harmonic balancer(Summit 2501).If it is confirmed that the stage 4 cam is not usable on the street, I would like to exchange it for BTR RED HOT CAM with the expectation of better downward torque progression.I would like to get better street use of my car. I am a little worried about compliance with emission regulations here in Europe (CZE) with a larger cam. I have read, that a cam with a number around 220 on the side of the intake valves will be better in this regard as well (if so, is it necessary to replace any other parts in the engine)
What would be better to do in your opinion?Many thanks
IMO the 1st cam is HUUUGE for a street driver.. It'll be very hard to tune. It's more of a cam you'd use in a turbo high rpm
track car as the lobes for INT/EXH are 15* difference.. With better heads and exhaust you don't need all that 'crutch' on the exhaust side.
It's LSA is only 111.5* so it's going to need to idle at about 1000-1100 ish just to stay running (in a 347 ci motor).
The second cam is a little more streetable... Don't expect street manners though. It's got a better LSA at 113* but it's high lift
and duration is going to make it pretty rowdy on 347 ci motor. Hopefully you have rear gears deeper than stock and enjoy
higher rpm operation.
Just my two cents
Largest off the shelf cam I would run in a 5.7 on the street would be the Cam Motion LS1 Titan 4 227*/232* 113* +4.
The largest cam to pass a sniffer in Commiefornia is a custom 226*/230* 115* LSA that was a sniffer pass only and NOT
"legal" or carb certified lol.
I have no idea what your certification process is.
But my opinion is the BTR stage 3& 4 cams are to large for street driving if one cares about low speed drive ability below ~1800 rpm.
Tuning & drive ability becomes more challenging beyond 228-230* of intake duration, greater than ~+6 exhaust duration and
less than 113-114* LSA.
Not an expert, Just my .02
Agreed, The Stg 4 will have surge which is not easily tuned out.
The 226/230 is doing well on the sniffer likely due to the wider 115 LSA resulting in less overlap.
I do like 226 to 228 degrees of duration on the intake with 2 to 6 more on the exhaust for a street car and HPDE/ track event build. Going bigger you really need lower gears in the car as the power band moves up and surge is more prominent./ harder to tune out. We've had good results with the Cam Motion LS1 Titan 4 227*/232* 113* +4 and the Summit SUM-8707 226/238 113+3.
The EPS 222/226 cam, and the various 224 cams can be a great compromise resulting in an easier to tune combination with loads of power under the curve. Cams are not a 1 size fits all selection.
I have been curious on BTR's move to standard split cams with much more exhaust duration. As someone that can nerd out a bit on this, I'd like to hear their thought process and engineering behind it. There is more to cam than just duration specs, ramp rates between the specs also influence how much power the cam makes.
My thoughts on the bigger split between EX and INT lobes is that there are so many people using the LS platform
for turbos these days. The turbos/superchargers/nos engines love the big split !
I agree that with good heads and exhaust the split only needs to be 6-10* !!
My thoughts on the bigger split between EX and INT lobes is that there are so many people using the LS platform
for turbos these days. The turbos/superchargers/nos engines love the big split !
I agree that with good heads and exhaust the split only needs to be 6-10* !!
Agreed the extra exhaust, is Nitrous, and super charger friendly and band aiding a budget header. However, 1 7/8 is common these days when IMO you get a better torque curve for the street with a 1 3/4 when you're running a cam under 230 on the intake.
The red hot makes very good power for the short intake duration. Which just guessing as someone who spends more time than I should reading stuff like this, Is it slow off the seat and then accelerates in the mid lift opening? I don't know but they seem to be making good power. The EPS 222/226 also does well for a small duration.
Little things of putting together a combination is how good tuners can charge for their work and make great power with smaller ports and cams, which should lead to a more responsive motor.
I am grateful for all your advice and tips. Based on these, I went through all the other cams I had saved on my computer over the past few days and picked one that could possibly be my favorite
It has LSA 114 and I also like the intake and exhaust parameters. I will, of course, look at the types of cams added today from your posts
So I am selling a BTR STAGE 4, I just think that when the previous owner invested many dollars in parts and engine upgrades and put this cam in it, he most certainly also did an engine tune with all these parts as far as the software in the ECU. Unfortunately, I still don't have the options for tuning the ECU and I'm curious
how the car will cope with the new cam after the engine repair (whatever I choose instead of the original BTR STG4)
I am grateful for all your advice and tips. Based on these, I went through all the other cams I had saved on my computer over the past few days and picked one that could possibly be my favorite
It has LSA 114 and I also like the intake and exhaust parameters. I will, of course, look at the types of cams added today from your posts
So I am selling a BTR STAGE 4, I just think that when the previous owner invested many dollars in parts and engine upgrades and put this cam in it, he most certainly also did an engine tune with all these parts as far as the software in the ECU. Unfortunately, I still don't have the options for tuning the ECU and I'm curious
how the car will cope with the new cam after the engine repair (whatever I choose instead of the original BTR STG4)
While I like the "raw #s" 224*/230* 114*+2*
If you notice in the description notes that these are the xe-r lobes which are their most aggressive hr lobe profiles,
Myself and many on CF are big fans of Cam Motion for 2 main reasons.
1, They are famous for their smoother and gentler lobe designs which may produce slightly less power under the curve , however
they do this in exchange for better valve train stability and valve spring longevity all else been equal.
2. They have fantastic customer service and will let you custom spec anything that fits their lobe profiles.
I would ask Cam Motion their thoughts on the following,
225*/229* 115*+3* .604"/.587" (.355"/.345" lobesW/ 1.7 rockers)
Would be real easy to tune, slightly better low-speed, stop and go manners in traffic and sniff just a bit cleaner...
if that matters.
The beauty of the C5/6 Chassis is that it provides space for the Ideal exhaust system
LTs-X Pipe- Symmetrical Duals, unlike the Fbody for example thereby requiring 2-4* less exhaust duration
all else equal.
Agreed, I would pass on the XE-R lobes. Google searching LS1tech can go further down that rabbit hole.
I am a CamMotion fan as well. Navy's specs look to be in the bakkpark. The Titan 3 is a 224/228 and they could grind the LSA and advance how you want it.
You can call or email them and give them the specs on your motor, heads, intake, exhaust, compression, etc and they will make a recommendation.
While I like the "raw #s" 224*/230* 114*+2*
If you notice in the description notes that these are the xe-r lobes which are their most aggressive hr lobe profiles,
Myself and many on CF are big fans of Cam Motion for 2 main reasons.
1, They are famous for their smoother and gentler lobe designs which may produce slightly less power under the curve , however
they do this in exchange for better valve train stability and valve spring longevity all else been equal.
2. They have fantastic customer service and will let you custom spec anything that fits their lobe profiles.
I would ask Cam Motion their thoughts on the following,
225*/229* 115*+3* .604"/.587" (.355"/.345" lobesW/ 1.7 rockers)
Would be real easy to tune, slightly better low-speed, stop and go manners in traffic and sniff just a bit cleaner...
if that matters.
The beauty of the C5/6 Chassis is that it provides space for the Ideal exhaust system
LTs-X Pipe- Symmetrical Duals, unlike the Fbody for example thereby requiring 2-4* less exhaust duration
all else equal.
Just my .02
So again I've revised my selection and since it's been two days since I emailed Cammotion with a query and still no reply (don't know if it's normal or just impatient) I'll probably order their Titan 3 LS cam (224/ 228). Of the ones I found, the closest to the specification that was advised to me here on the forum was "Navy Blue 210"... https://cammotion.com/recently-resto...224-228-113-4/
I Unfortunately, I still don't have the options for tuning the ECU and I'm curious how the car will cope with the new cam after the engine repair (whatever I choose instead of the original BTR STG4)
Just my opinion, but if you have no way to tune the car I would not be changing the cam.
I would not change cams without a retune. You can buy HP tuners and some tuners will remote tune or you can learn how to tune using online courses and / or youtube.
I have the BTR stage 3.
While overall the stage 3 is fine on the street driving it sucks in any stop and go traffic. iE cars and coffee
I think it’s the limit of what patience I have personally.
I have BTR stage 2 in my vette, been driving for some time now , love it , she rips hard, im just driving on remote tune only, so ill get a one stumble one or two time to time . I m hoping tunner will fix that when I take it to the dyno here soon
I would not change cams without a retune. You can buy HP tuners and some tuners will remote tune or you can learn how to tune using online courses and / or youtube.
I found a company that specializes in Corvettes and their people can tune ECUs using HP Tuners. I want to order a cam tomorrow. My favorite so far is the Cammotion Titan 3, but I also discovered one cam that has the same parameters as the Titan 3, but the LSA has a better one - 114(TSP 224/228):
https://www.glennsautoperformance.co...14859436884011
So I don't know if it will be better thanks to the higher LSA.
I assume the heads will have to come off to replace the cam. Two questions come to mind. If someone could answer them for me in advance, I would be very happy:
1.How do I know that I should use (and therefore order) a different length of pushrods? I assume it depends on the valve lift at the cam
2.What is a good gasket to use under the heads? So far, I have bought original types from GM everywhere for the engine, or is it recommended to put other (so perhaps better) than OEM from GM in this position in modified engines?Thank you
FWIW, I have a BTR stage 2 cam. It's very well behaved on the street.
Yes, I like to believe that. I have read a lot of positive reviews about this cam. But to meet emission standards here in Europe, I was advised to buy one that has an intake valve duration value closer to 220.
I found a company that specializes in Corvettes and their people can tune ECUs using HP Tuners. I want to order a cam tomorrow. My favorite so far is the Cammotion Titan 3, but I also discovered one cam that has the same parameters as the Titan 3, but the LSA has a better one - 114(TSP 224/228):
https://www.glennsautoperformance.co...14859436884011
So I don't know if it will be better thanks to the higher LSA.
I assume the heads will have to come off to replace the cam. Two questions come to mind. If someone could answer them for me in advance, I would be very happy:
1.How do I know that I should use (and therefore order) a different length of pushrods? I assume it depends on the valve lift at the cam
2.What is a good gasket to use under the heads? So far, I have bought original types from GM everywhere for the engine, or is it recommended to put other (so perhaps better) than OEM from GM in this position in modified engines?Thank you
The heads don't need to come off to replace the cam. But if you want to install better lifters, then the heads would need to come off. A stage 3 cam is going to put a lot more stress on the lifters. The stock lifters will not hold up to that extra lift.
If you retain the stock lifters and heads, the push rod length won't change. But you might want better push rods. Again, the extra lift will put more stress on the push rods. At a minimum you should install better push rods, valve springs, and do a trunion upgrade on the rocker arms. All this can be done without removing the heads. If you want to do it right, remove the heads and upgrade the lifters too. You would measure for push rod after it's all reassembled. If the heads are coming off, you might as well upgrade the heads too.
Stock GM head gasket should suffice if you're not doing boost.
I found a company that specializes in Corvettes and their people can tune ECUs using HP Tuners. I want to order a cam tomorrow. My favorite so far is the Cammotion Titan 3, but I also discovered one cam that has the same parameters as the Titan 3, but the LSA has a better one - 114(TSP 224/228):
https://www.glennsautoperformance.co...14859436884011
So I don't know if it will be better thanks to the higher LSA.
I assume the heads will have to come off to replace the cam. Two questions come to mind. If someone could answer them for me in advance, I would be very happy:
1.How do I know that I should use (and therefore order) a different length of pushrods? I assume it depends on the valve lift at the cam
2.What is a good gasket to use under the heads? So far, I have bought original types from GM everywhere for the engine, or is it recommended to put other (so perhaps better) than OEM from GM in this position in modified engines?Thank you
You can get CamMotion to grind the LSA you want. I'd rather run a Cam Motion or Summit cam over TSP, IMO.
2) I've always run a GM head gesket. You can get the cam out without pulling the head if you use some rods to hold the lifters up but the heads must come out to get the lifters out. I would run new GM lifter treys and Morel or if budget allows Johnson lifters (not Johnson hylift they are an off brand). I understood CamMotion lifters are Morels and a Morel drop in lifter should work fine. A friend has run them in half hour track sessions on the Titan 3 without issue. Some aftermarket lifter treys can be twisted side to tide, you do not want flex, thus stay with GM or maybe BTR if they have a replacement.
The heads don't need to come off to replace the cam. But if you want to install better lifters, then the heads would need to come off. A stage 3 cam is going to put a lot more stress on the lifters. The stock lifters will not hold up to that extra lift.
If you retain the stock lifters and heads, the push rod length won't change. But you might want better push rods. Again, the extra lift will put more stress on the push rods. At a minimum you should install better push rods, valve springs, and do a trunion upgrade on the rocker arms. All this can be done without removing the heads. If you want to do it right, remove the heads and upgrade the lifters too. You would measure for push rod after it's all reassembled. If the heads are coming off, you might as well upgrade the heads too.
Stock GM head gasket should suffice if you're not doing boost.
The stock base circle is not always maintained on an aftermarket cam and thus measuring would still be a very good idea. I also like to check piston to valve clearance even if it isn't absolutely needed when running an aftermarket cam. It is better to avoid an expensive mistake than save some time.
If the heads come off, I'd have a machinist deck the heads for clean up. Also get all the old gasket material off the block and head before reinstalling everything, do not use power tools to get the old gasket material off especially if you go with a thiner aftermarket gasket.
04-22-2024, 12:02 PM
BTR CAMSHAFT -LS1/LS2 -N/A STAGE 4 for street C5Z or replace it with BTR RED HOT?
