When you click on links to various merchants on this site and make a purchase, this can result in this site earning a commission. Affiliate programs and affiliations include, but are not limited to, the eBay Partner Network.
Yes, you don’t need to drive a Porsche 100mph to appreciate the fabulous nature of the car. I agree with you there, so allow me to put things into context.
The discussion was not about appreciating a rare or sophisticated automobile and it’s performance potential, so allow me to put that aside for the time being. More specifically, it was about cam/gear selections without expensive supporting mods for a street only car to achieve better acceleration driving around town.
My point is that a mild cam has all the qualities to meet that criteria when mated with a lower gear ratio. The opposing view supported cams where any additional benefits/power occur at much higher rpm’s, ie., speeds.
Reaching race track level speeds was not the goal from the outset, nor street safe by any reasonable standards. In other words, the bigger cam and supporting mods were expensive and unusable for the stated goals.
As you might have noticed, my nature is for strong focus on stated goals. Sometimes people state goals, but they intended them as guide lines, or jump off points. So is the nature of forums.
Yeah, but your logic is still very flawed. Based on your logic there is absolutely no need whatsoever to upgrade the cam, gears or power in any C5 if only operating under safe street driving conditions is even remotely your concern.
Most towns limit speed between 25 to 45mph. You needed a cam and gears for that?
Yeah, but your logic is still very flawed. Based on your logic there is absolutely no need whatsoever to upgrade the cam, gears or power in any C5 if only operating under safe street driving conditions is even remotely your concern.
Most towns limit speed between 25 to 45mph. You needed a cam and gears for that?
My point is more to the fact that most of the upgrades, whether a mild cam and gears or the extreme high revving cam or FI for that matter are preference or choice based on what makes folks happy.
All unnecessary and overkill in the grand scheme of things. No matter what ones street driving preferences are.
Some are happy with mild upgrades they can't maximize in the street...and others are happy with extreme upgrades they can't maximize on the street. Neither one is wrong.
My point is more to the fact that most of the upgrades, whether a mild cam and gears or the extreme high revving cam or FI for that matter are preference or choice based on what makes folks happy.
All unnecessary and overkill in the grand scheme of things. No matter what ones street driving preferences are.
Some are happy with mild upgrades they can't maximize in the street...and others are happy with extreme upgrades they can't maximize on the street. Neither one is wrong.
The point of the discussion was not about maximizing. It was about improving a street only set up with cam/gears. This is not a philosophical question, it’s about stated goals.
My point is that a high rpm cam does nothing to achieve those goals, a mild cam does. Expensive supporting mods certainly could help achieve the performance goal, but goes beyond the budget goals; a mild cam that doesn’t require those mods does meet the goal of improving-not maximizing-performance.
Quickness, not extreme top end is the stated goal. A mild cam/gear will set you back in your seat to 65 on an on ramp, is fun and safe, and that’s the extra 500-1000 rpm a mild cam achieves without additional mods. The big cam easily takes the engine yet another 1000 or so rpm reaching mid 90s; yet again, that is not the goal.
I enjoy these performance improvement discussions. Let's face it, most Corvettes, and sports cars in general, are effectively over-kill for the street. Any additional HP and performance, rather through model choice (Z06/ZR1) or though other aftermarket modifications really comes down to each individual owner's objectives and even budget depending on how much total money you want to spend either on stock model or aftermarket options.
I have a 2004 C5 A4 convertible with the 3.15 performance axle and a 2019 C7 Z06 M7 coupe with the Z07 performance package. The difference between the two cars is dramatic. My C5 convertible is effectively bone stock with only a Callaway Honker CAI matched to a Corsa X-pipe and Corsa axle back system pulled together with a tune and low-temp stat for better shifting. It drives great, is pretty quick off the line, and a pleasure to drive/own but I would like a little more off-line quickness. Therefore I like the idea of starting with a LS6 CAM & springs and 3.73 gears. I think that would be enough to improve the fun factor as my C5 is effectively now a station-to-station, around town, glorified golf cart as my cart bag fits perfectly in the trunk. My C7Z is matched up with a Borla catless X-pipe and the GM Jake CAI. It's loud, aggressive and a lot of fun to drive even in local stop and go driving. However 0-60 is not it's happy place. It's more loud than quick off the line as I try not to dump the clutch at every stop light and it's not until the car gets near 70 MPH before it starts to stretch it's performance legs. It's happy place is more in the 80-150 MPH range so I obviously have limited opportunities to drive the car as it was engineered. I do have the occasional track runs, but most of my fun is pissing off the Prius owner next to me with the downshift Rev Match bark of of my Borla X-pipe when slowing down for a traffic light. Below is a picture of my C5 resting in its natural habitat - a golf course parking lot.
@Edgemere after all the discussion above, what are your thoughts?
BTW to gain ~ 50 WHP as stated goal, Bolt on's should do the trick or come very close. A cold air package, Long tube headers, 92 Fast intake, 92mm TB, & dyno tune should get your car fairly close.
Picked up ~46 whp doing similar mod's on my LS1 (02 Z28 w/automatic transmission)
@Edgemere after all the discussion above, what are your thoughts?
BTW to gain ~ 50 WHP as stated goal, Bolt on's should do the trick or come very close. A cold air package, Long tube headers, 92 Fast intake, 92mm TB, & dyno tune should get your car fairly close.
Picked up ~46 whp doing similar mod's on my LS1 (02 Z28 w/automatic transmission)
I wonder how many people realize just how much power is on the table with a stock C5 LS1, never mind the LS6?! My A4 Vert ran 13.70-13.80@102mph 1/4 mile times, totally showroom stock. I added a "dry nitrous 100 shot, and got to the 13.10s@110mph. Sold the nitrous setup, and started doing bolt ons and a SOTP/educated guess LS1 EDIT tune. I eventually got it down to 12.89@110mph, thru stock exhaust manifolds, gutted cats, and dual Flowmasters. With a higher stall (3,200rpm) Yank converter, and shorty, 1-3/4" headers, I got down to 12.50@114mph!! I think that's a pretty damn good E.T./mph for a stock engined, 3.15 geared, A4 Vert. Apparently, so did the track, which, after seeing the 12.50 run, promptly kicked me off the track due to no roll bar!!
Thanks for the answers. The color of my car is Torch Red. I went through a complete mod upgrade with a 2008 GT500 Shelby I had. I put 20K into the car and was pulling 797HP at the rear wheels. One mod led to another and it was not a daily driver anymore. Sure was fun though! I do not want to go down that rabbit hole again, and I do not want to spend that kind of money as I am retired now. I love my C5 Vette and it is a really cool car. I was hoping to get another 50HP out of my car which led me to cams. As stated I am not a mechanic and would have my race shop do the work. I really would not want to spend more than $3,500.00 at this point. What is the best thing to do to get more HP out of my car without going crazy with money and mods?
Thanks, Edgemere
Forget the cam for now. Find a used 3:42 rear differential and buy a 3000 stall torque convertor w/lockup. PM me for my choice. Will make more difference than just a cam and driveability will remain great. Good luck.
Forget the cam for now. Find a used 3:42 rear differential and buy a 3000 stall torque convertor w/lockup. PM me for my choice. Will make more difference than just a cam and driveability will remain great. Good luck.
Does the 300 Stall converter then replace the OEM Torque converter if it's an A4 automatic or is the stall convertor a separate component? Up until this thread, I never really heard the term stall converter. Newb question...
Forget the cam for now. Find a used 3:42 rear differential and buy a 3000 stall torque convertor w/lockup. PM me for my choice. Will make more difference than just a cam and driveability will remain great. Good luck.
Best advice so far. 3.42 and Yank ss3600 is what I did. Bolt on Stock LS1 2001. 8.0X @ 85mph in the 1/8. 6000DA. Now if I could only get to the coast with a negative DA and post some hero numbers. LOL.
Does the 300 Stall converter then replace the OEM Torque converter if it's an A4 automatic or is the stall convertor a separate component? Up until this thread, I never really heard the term stall converter. Newb question...
Your trans already has a converter, the higher stall model replaces it. The stall speed refers, basically, to when the convertor begins engaging the engine and transmission. This is not a thorough explanation, because converter activity depends on a number of variables, like vehicle weight, engine torque, speed, etc…. It’s voo doo unless you’re in the business. Recommend that you give a convertor mfg a call and they can give good advice.
Thanks. Just like the LS6 Cam, I understand that the GH Hot Cam also uses the LS6 valve springs. Would the GM Hot Cam require any additional modifications or parts, assuming it is paired up with the 3.73 rear gears?
You can likely get close to the same results of a LS6 cam with some 1.8 rockers, and I'd also use a set of beehive springs which is much less work over a LS6 cam swap.
Most companies who offer cams for LS motors offer a drop in cam line designed for factory LS6 springs if you don't want to go to aftermarket springs. They are generally offered as truck cams. I would call CamMotion, TSP, etc and discuss what they can do. If the cam is more torque oriented, the valve events maybe changed to move the power curve.
The cam peeks early for a manual corvette but widening the 108 LSA to a 112LSA would move the power curve up some. 218/224 on a 112 LSA was a decent size cam early in the tuning development of the LS motors. I might run the truck cam as is for an auto with 3.15 or 3.42 gears. I would like to do a cam in my 6.0 LQ4 2500HD and would go with a CamMotion 210/216 as IMO even on the bigger 6.0, going larger would give up torque at low RPM where the torque converter flashes to. In the truck I am concerned about torque from 2400-4,500 rpm
The 210/216 comes in a drop in (stock springs) option and a high lift (beehive springs and conservative ramp rates) option. https://cammotion.com/camshafts/6-0-...210-216-116-5/
The LM7 cam was a 190/191 with ~460 lift, specs changed slightly by year from what I'm finding.
You can likely get close to the same results of a LS6 cam with some 1.8 rockers, and I'd also use a set of beehive springs which is much less work over a LS6 cam swap.
Most companies who offer cams for LS motors offer a drop in cam line designed for factory LS6 springs if you don't want to go to aftermarket springs. They are generally offered as truck cams. I would call CamMotion, TSP, etc and discuss what they can do. If the cam is more torque oriented, the valve events maybe changed to move the power curve.
The cam peeks early for a manual corvette but widening the 108 LSA to a 112LSA would move the power curve up some. 218/224 on a 112 LSA was a decent size cam early in the tuning development of the LS motors. I might run the truck cam as is for an auto with 3.15 or 3.42 gears. I would like to do a cam in my 6.0 LQ4 2500HD and would go with a CamMotion 210/216 as IMO even on the bigger 6.0, going larger would give up torque at low RPM where the torque converter flashes to. In the truck I am concerned about torque from 2400-4,500 rpm
The 210/216 comes in a drop in (stock springs) option and a high lift (beehive springs and conservative ramp rates) option. https://cammotion.com/camshafts/6-0-...210-216-116-5/
The LM7 cam was a 190/191 with ~460 lift, specs changed slightly by year from what I'm finding.
Those specs are incorrect for the model years listed. The 2000 model is the only MY that had the .500" lift, and tighter LSA. If you install 1.8 rockers on a 2000 model, you'll damage engine components, UNLESS you replace the valve springs.
Those specs are incorrect for the model years listed. The 2000 model is the only MY that had the .500" lift, and tighter LSA. If you install 1.8 rockers on a 2000 model, you'll damage engine components, UNLESS you replace the valve springs.
I did say I'd go beehive springs. But you should be good on LS1 cam 1.8s and LS6 replacement springs.
.500 valve lift / 1.7 is .29448 lobe lift
.29448 lobe lift x 1.8 is .529 valve lift which is just above the LS Hot cam lift of .525.
Those specs are incorrect for the model years listed. The 2000 model is the only MY that had the .500" lift, and tighter LSA. If you install 1.8 rockers on a 2000 model, you'll damage engine components, UNLESS you replace the valve springs.
You can likely get close to the same results of a LS6 cam with some 1.8 rockers, and I'd also use a set of beehive springs which is much less work over a LS6 cam .
When he is asking about LS6 cams, he’s referring to the SDPC LS6 Power Max and Power Max Plus, not a stock one. Much different specs. The former uses GM beehive springs, the latter Pac1218.
When he is asking about LS6 cams, he’s referring to the SDPC LS6 Power Max and Power Max Plus, not a stock one. Much different specs. The former uses GM beehive springs, the latter Pac1218.
I know what you're saying, and you're right. But if you put 1.8 rockers on a 2000 MY C5, it has to be an LS1, as no LS6 motors were out then. I remember seeing warnings about installing 1.8s on the 2000 model, and the reason I do is because I have a 2000 model. When I found out I'd have to upgrade springs, I dropped the idea of the 1.8s. I do know the 2000 was the only year the cam had that high of lift, and that tighter LSA. Can't vouch for what other years had what lift and duration. Seeing as I have a 2000, I thoroughly researched this. Just sayin', and trying to help out some guys who may not realize you can't just bolt in 1.8s on a 2000. You can do it on the other year LS1s, just not the 2000 MY.
I know what you're saying, and you're right. But if you put 1.8 rockers on a 2000 MY C5, it has to be an LS1, as no LS6 motors were out then. I remember seeing warnings about installing 1.8s on the 2000 model, and the reason I do is because I have a 2000 model. When I found out I'd have to upgrade springs, I dropped the idea of the 1.8s. I do know the 2000 was the only year the cam had that high of lift, and that tighter LSA. Can't vouch for what other years had what lift and duration. Seeing as I have a 2000, I thoroughly researched this. Just sayin', and trying to help out some guys who may not realize you can't just bolt in 1.8s on a 2000. You can do it on the other year LS1s, just not the 2000 MY.
Thats good to know…. Anything with valve train, lift or duration, better have it quadruple checked for valve clearance. I once had a valve break off and it flew back up the plenum and went cylinder to cylinder, and grenaded whole motor. Pulled the pan off and a whole bunch of unrecognizable twisted metal fell on the floor.
Thats good to know…. Anything with valve train, lift or duration, better have it quadruple checked for valve clearance. I once had a valve break off and it flew back up the plenum and went cylinder to cylinder, and grenaded whole motor. Pulled the pan off and a whole bunch of unrecognizable twisted metal fell on the floor.
It's the LS1 springs that are the problem. Any year LS1 EXCEPT the 2000 model will be fine with just bolting on the 1.8s, and go. Do that with the increased lift of the 2000 model, and the springs are at coil bind. Used to be warnings on the 1.8 rocker box, I believe from SLP, saying DO NOT use on 2000 models, or something similar. The lower lift of all the other C5 cams work fine with 1.8 rockers as-is.....
02-07-2022, 10:01 PM
