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The market seems to be saturated for coilover options for the C5/C6 platforms, and new ones join the list regularly.
Other than price and very basic understanding of options, how can a buyer and shadetree mechanic make an informed decision? How can we, the non-suspension engineers, know what is best for our intended use?
I feel that most buyers want a generalized handling improvement but don't know how to quantify that.
And I feel that when people ask others either on the forums here or on FB, the typical answer is: "Get X brand.... because I've got them on mine and I haven't died yet."
My intent for this post is to prompt conversation to compare / contrast the differences in kits. Hopefully, some of those who can better represent the products and concepts involved can guide the general public to a better understanding of what to look for and maybe even to decide for ourselves if kit B is better than kit A, etc.
That said, I've got Ride-Tech HQs on my '99 and they haven't killed me yet! LOL They may find their way onto my '03 soon.
Please Note: prices listed are generally per manufacturer site and are therefore not the lowest version, descriptions are probably deplorable as I have been delirious all weekend so it may not make sense - but not all vendors list all pertinent specs for their product, either. I will keep the excel sheet should better info come to light from discussion and bear updating.
Wow this is awesome man, good job! I don't have any input as I'm probably going to stay with my leafs as long as possible, but I feel like 70% of the people here looking for them are for the street and just want to be able to say they have coilovers haha. There are plenty of people on this site that actually race them though, so I'm interested in seeing what comes of this thread
I've installed the LG Motorsports GT2 adjustable on my car (2004 coup 6-manual performance mods include twin remote turbos, 3:91 rear gears, transaxle cage, electric water pump, Dewitts radiator and high volume fans). I was an occasional tracker at the time and was looking to tighten up the suspension. At the same time I went to an oversized sway bars branded by West Coast Corvettes. Since installation I have not had the opportunity to get back onto the track but as a street driver I can tell you that they do make a difference keeping the car level and tire contact with the road. I've got mine setup medium stiff, for the most part I'm the only one in the car so I don't mind the less than soft ride.
If I just wanted to be able to say that I had coilovers ...
... that is a pathetic thing for you to say.
Are you running one of those horns that goes “A-ooo-gaah” on your vehicles?
i see where they add 5 hp per cylinder.
Originally Posted by heggsc5
Wow ... I don't have any input as I'm probably going to stay with my leafs as long as possible, but I feel like 70% of the people here looking for them are for the street and just want to be able to say they have coilovers haha.
There are plenty of people on this site that actually race them though, so I'm interested in seeing what comes of this thread
... that is a pathetic thing for you to say.
Are you running one of those horns that goes “A-ooo-gaah” on your vehicles?
i see where they add 5 hp per cylinder.
Huh? I'm confused on why you edited my post when you quoted it and what I said that could be considered "pathetic"?
I bought a set of QA1 coilovers for a decent price shortly after they came out. But, during mock-up I found the rears had about 1" less travel then the stock shocks. So, I sold them instead of installing them since the C5 is known to have limited rear travel stock.and I didn't want to be reducing the travel that much further. Also, the weight of the car was supposed to ride on the rubber/poly bushing eye at the top end on the rear units and I couldn't see that bushing lasting very long.
In the intervening years we have gone from 27 offerings to at least 38 while possibly losing several brands for which I could not find current product links, pricing or information.
Those on that list include: Penske, DRM, Callaway and Eibach
I highlighted the ones which seem to be either the most popular or the most cost effective.
Very honorable mention to LG Motorsports which produces arguably one of the better designed products and make a point of matching their springs and shock valving instead of leaving it to the consumer. They have a great video from a decade ago where they run over a large obstacle and prove that the shock system will take it and not wreck the car. That does speak volumes, as does the fact that all connection points save for the lower rear fork are spherical.
Silvers is selling hotly due to the excellent sales and support efforts at FIP by Brian R.
Viking Berzerker 3x adjustables have caught my attention for the price/package. In my head, however, I wonder why they seem to require helper springs and have yet to reach an answer. I am actively considering these as replacements for the RideTech HQs on my project car. Given the power and speeds I will be capable of reaching I want to ensure the tires remain planted and allow more control over the function of my suspension.
In the intervening years we have gone from 27 offerings to at least 38 while possibly losing several brands for which I could not find current product links, pricing or information.
Those on that list include: Penske, DRM, Callaway and Eibach
I highlighted the ones which seem to be either the most popular or the most cost effective.
Very honorable mention to LG Motorsports which produces arguably one of the better designed products and make a point of matching their springs and shock valving instead of leaving it to the consumer. They have a great video from a decade ago where they run over a large obstacle and prove that the shock system will take it and not wreck the car. That does speak volumes, as does the fact that all connection points save for the lower rear fork are spherical.
Silvers is selling hotly due to the excellent sales and support efforts at FIP by Brian R.
Viking Berzerker 3x adjustables have caught my attention for the price/package. In my head, however, I wonder why they seem to require helper springs and have yet to reach an answer. I am actively considering these as replacements for the RideTech HQs on my project car. Given the power and speeds I will be capable of reaching I want to ensure the tires remain planted and allow more control over the function of my suspension.
Hi Tusc, the Viking Berserker do not require Helpers, all their Dampers are provided without Helpers...it might be a choice for some application.
Sometime a shorter spring weight less than a longer one if same OD, and weight saving is not bad for the dynamic of the suspension.
Christian
Hi Tusc, Real racing world will not use any anodized aluminum whatever color, the anodizing process is altering all part that are precisely machined... I will stay away from all anodized dampers. Christian
I share this with love because Brian R is a great business owner who gives strong support but also has a history of finding and pushing products which are not yet mainstream but are of high quality and often niche for Corvettes. So I laugh because he has single handedly brougut about the success of Silvers breaking into the market.
No one else markets or pushes their coilover kits. No one. Ever. They rely on word of mouth maybe? Look at the nearly 40 models above. How many were you aware of before this thread, right?
But the nature of this joke is good and I laugh because for two years EVERY. SINGLE. TIME. anyone posts ANYWHERE on the myriad of Corvette pages on FaceBook or IG about suspension or coilovers....
5...4...3...t...DING!.. In chimes Brian with FIP posting links, videos, reviews, pictures, etc all pushing Silvers.
The man is relentless and getting the job done. I wager those shocks are buying him a C8 Z06 by now.
G2's have evolved a bit in 2022. Previously we chose one of about 10 shock options already valved to our spec from Bilstein and matched up with spring per customer application. Now everything is valved and assembled in house (still utilizing all Bilstein components) which gives us the ability to further tailor the kits to customer application. Every kit is shock dyno'ed and does not leave here until there is less than 7lbs variance from side to side.
We are still working on mounting so it's not a website product but we do offer 2-way and remote reservoir 3-way kits for customers who are willing to modify or have us modify the rear lower control arm for mounting.
You can't beat the kind of product testing and backing that Lou puts into your products. That one video from years ago running over the 4x4 and slamming apart the inner fender on that red C6 but showing proof that the shock itself survived, didn't fail, and wouldn't then also send your car off into a wall.... that it the right kind of approach to prove your worth.
For anyone wondering what I'm referring to. The man ran one of his own Z06s through, wrecked a wheel, cracked the inner fender, drove the rear wheel well cover out after going over it a second time, and then spun and launched the car to prove the suspension was serviceable despite one HECK of a bad hit. Impressive.
I am trying to picture where the cannister sits on the rear. I like that it is hard mounted to the shock base but it looks as though it would either be in the way of the axle or the tie rod unless it can be clocked to the inside towards the frame. I'm trying to think what would prevent the same mount from working on the front.
I'm not going to edit this up. This is something I typed in response to my Black Friday Coilovers thread which has a basic list of differentiations germaine to coilover comparison.
Originally Posted by Tusc
I thought the same re pFadt but thought they're probably good now or we'd have heard about them. Funny thing about coilovers..... they remain, as my list/comparison thread describes, an almost fully unquantified offering as a group. Nowhere do we have a guide comparing or contrasting them. Think of sway bars... no one knows how to compare or decide on them other than the pFadt graphic we all pass around and a very loose understanding of rate vs tire size and oversteer/understeer. Right? Well not even that exists for coilovers. There is no community group voice or understanding by which to compare or contrast them. Key differences between coilovers?
Range of travel - how much effective dampening can the shock body offer, or how low can you drop the car and still have range of motion without bottoming out your shock in a corner and turning your effective spring rate to infinity (you're either about to spin or have a very harsh ride)
Spherical Bearings vs Other - well almost all popular/common kits are spherical so it becomes a moot point
Spring Rates - fully customizable by owner, generalized by intended use:
Street - 12k / 8k or 550 / 425 lbs
Drag - 12k / 10k
Track - 12k +/-
Spring Quality - who made it? What material? How long will it be good for before sagging, or is it sufficient quality NOT to sag? Hyperco is frequently chosen by manufacturers for this. Silvers, for example, comes direct from the dealer with the option of adding better springs which suggests a weak point.
Connection Type and Material - is the front upper a spherical with a clevis head, rubber, or a delrin half sphere? Spherical providing zero restriction of force
Gas Remote vs Gas Retained Shock - is the gas (nitrogen preferred) retained within the shock body or allowed to remove itself from the shock oil to an external container (air bubbles in the shock oil can reduce peak performance)
Adjustability - conceptually, CAN we adjust the rebound and compression but also SHOULD we? On the topic of "can" comes two points. Many coilovers are sold as a matched set with no adjustability to the valving. Others do have adjustment ***** for one setting or the other, but the range of those settings might be as many as 14 to 30 clicks and there may then ALSO be no actual changes being made to the valving except for the final 5 clicks in some cases. In others, how do you know the "range" of the setting and are you in fact able to put the shock outside the effective range of the spring?
Top vs Bottom mounted Shocks - how much weight is on the traveling part of the suspension
Peripherals - is the adjustment **** easily reached or not, and is it or can it be set remotely. Also, does that remote piece require cutting into the rear compartment or can it be tucked away safely elsewhere. Does the kit have a locking ring? Can the ride height be set independently of the spring? And who knows what else I might be missing - chief of which being any real discussion of how the various models of shocks employed themselves function one vs the other.
But my point here is this...... ALL of us can sit down and readily discuss tire dimensions, basic cam specs or oil weight. That innate group shared knowledge does not exist when looking at coilovers and it comes down to "Ag-47s are the BEST. It's what I've got on my car." And that offers zero differentiation other than they haven't fallen off some dude's car yet and it is also dangerous because it perpetuates a culture of ignorance and clique thinking where everyone buys "Ag-47s" solely because one person is spamming the ever loving snot out of them and then a lot of guys who simply don't know sit there and ape after the spammer saying "Ag-47s are the bestest!" while never actually understanding why they are or are not in reality as worthwhile as people are saying. The fact that Ag-47s already offer Swift Spring upgrades is my first red flag.
See? I bet a bunch of Forum members just learned something reading this.
I should copy/paste a lot of what I just wrote to my coilover comparison thread - which in practice is more of a "list every coilover" post at this point.
Range of travel...it's either enough or it isn't. You will know real fast if you don't have enough. I'm sure there is a "sweet spot" working travel for all shocks but I don't think this is something to concern yourself about EXCEPT to match allowable shock travel to vehicle ride height and expected wheel travel. This can be measured and calculated using motion ration for shock travel.
Bushing/bearings....doesn't much matter. I had delrin front upper with the Ridetech stuff and they would rattle/clang. My Vikings with simple bushing is quiet.
Rates...all user determined for their purpose. I can say getting over 650+lbs gets STIFF and unless it is a true time attack car with full aero it will be too much.450-650 is probably the majority of rates used.
Adjustability....yes you can and yes you should. Driving conditions/surfaces change and therefore the ability to tweak the shocks is always a benefit.
Spring Quality for sag...doesn't matter as you can always swap to Hyperco if you REALLY want to. Bigger question would be if the spring rates are actually what they are advertised, but unless you have a machine to measure them or suspect an issue...you'll never know.
Remote vs standard reservoir...from my gathering all comes down to cooling. More fluid stored in a remote reservoir keeps things cooler. 98% of people reading THIS thread don't need remote. I think you really trying to get at mono vs twin tube in terms of air and cavitation issues. I had RT mono and now twin tube Viking...I can't tell a difference.
Standard vs inverted shocks....sure there is a "weight savings" going inverted, but honestly will you tell the difference? I doubt it unless you are squeezing every last lb (includes lightweight wheels and tires) and pushing the car to the limit.
Adjustment method...very important IMO. I hate something that is a pain to adust or use. Koni yellows SUCK with 1/4 window sweeps, RT was better but the ***** on the upper end of the shock in the back and at the very top on the front shocks made it annoying. I had to jack up the car to access the PS front shock ****...useless when in autocross grid. But this is also user determined. If I ONLY street drive and had time/space to make adjustments then it wouldn't be a big deal....but if I ONLY street drive, adjustability isn't really worth it.
My RT to Viking switch was driven mostly due to adjustment method benefit and price point on Viking. Vikings are SO much easier to adjust on the fly and I sold my RT after roughly 1 year for about the same price getting new Vikings. I have yet to regret going Viking.
Yes, everything you brought up is valid and most likely made some people's head spin because all they want is to lower their car, or to say they have coilovers for the car show folk...all comes down to your priorities but be realistic with priorities/needs at the same time.
To further compare you need to look at shock dyno graphs and hysteresis. This gives a glimpse into the shock valve quality and how it acts over certain in/second speeds...which some may be able to say one is "better" than the other looking at a curve but I would argue it depends on the application. You need to drive on two shocks with associated dyno curves and start FEELING how each one is better/worse.
One person's "too stiff" may be a sweet spot for someone else. I can tell you I much prefer my Vikings over Koni Sports. Much more ability to fine tune and control the spring/suspension. Putting my stock shocks on during my RT to Viking swap the car felt downright dangerous and flopping around like a Cadillac lol
Putting my stock shocks on during my RT to Viking swap the car felt downright dangerous and flopping around like a Cadillac lol
YES! My daily driver coupe is back on factory C5Z springs and Bilsteins. I have adjusted to it over time. But my initial reaction was extreme to the point I considered selling the car immediately. I've been enjoying the car greatly since then, but with the Z06 itself nearing completion it may be time to put the coupe on the market. I think I just need to repair a seat bolster inflator and adjust the roof panel to fit with the new weather stripping and she's done. Oh, and put the cut down shifter back in it. But first I need to pull the Tick and swap the MGW/tmod box in to finish my comparison of the two. The Tick has been in it now at least 6 weeks? I did just receive the replacement boot for the original which tore.
I am trying to picture where the cannister sits on the rear. I like that it is hard mounted to the shock base but it looks as though it would either be in the way of the axle or the tie rod unless it can be clocked to the inside towards the frame. I'm trying to think what would prevent the same mount from working on the front.
That's actually a C8 front, sorry for the confusion!
08-18-2019, 07:16 PM
Coilover Kits - Education / Comparison
