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Maybe it will help a brother out. Not making this big, just a tag onto an existing thread instead of a big blow out. No one reads this thread anyway.
First, and for recent reference - being the codger than I sometimes am, I probed a few threads over the holiday weekend on FB where coilovers are mentioned and asked why folks recommended the same brand repeatedly ad nauseum.
Not one person had a quantifiable reason to go with the brand they chose. We all collectively know nothing of these product or how they differentiate from others and are clearly following some truly excellent marketing but then the group-think kicks in as I mentioned above: "I bought X, so you should buy X."
When asked "Why?" ..... no one had an answer.
Score one for the Happel School of Inquisition for you Slops out there. (Links to FB private pages don't work here so go to FB.com and paste on "/groups/1383131305275204")
The one good reason I saw which I agree with was customer service from the vendor involved who is truly awesome. A strong vendor who lives, eats, breathes a love for the C5/6/7 and goes out of his way to provide excellent niche products AND top customer service. For what I write below, I guarantee that if he has had the opportunity to be involved yet or will in the future that he has or will do all he can to support this client which almost surely must be his given the rates suggested, and the extended rear adjusters which he includes at no cost for his clients. Like I said, a great guy and vendor looking out for his clients so don't let the manufacturer issue affect his rep.
Today in a C5 Modified Buy Sell Trade ad I saw a guy selling a brand new upgraded kit which he paid $1,900 for (Great pricing), now selling for $1,550 (a steal if someone is looking!). Silvers NeoMax using upgrades Swift springs in in 12k/10k rates which the primary vendor site suggests for Drag / Auto-X use.
It appears to have been shipped five weeks ago on 11/15 and also appears to have the manufacturer's branded tape intact on the box. Brand new in box springs to mind if you pardon the pun.
I wouldn't think anything of it except that it has an attached e-mail dated 11/29 (well within ANY typical return date range) from the manufacturer's Director of Operations, North America - a Mr. William Mesman - where it appears to politely inform the buyer that a return cannot be effected because they only accept returns on stock springs with stock spring rates. This infers that Silvers as a manufacturer will not honor returns for anything not base model.
We as consumers spending big money must then ask the question: Will Silvers honor warranty coverage on anything not "off the shelf"?
This is important when the primary vendor offers 11 variants of the kit (22 if you add the option of Swift Springs) beyond off the shelf status. That number MIGHT be higher if the extended rear adjusters are interpreted by Silvers as not meeting their definition of off the shelf.
Food for thought. If this helps JD get his full money back - awesome. If it does nothing other than raise some manufacturer awareness.... maybe we're due for a dose. Or maybe that manufacturer needs to improve their customer service. They could take a few notes from their vendor who typically bends over backwards for his Corvette clients.
Note: I did edit JD's full name, FB profile image, etc out of the screen capture and associated saved images.
Isn't there a guy boasting all over FB about Silvers anytime a coilover question comes up? Is he the owner or something? Maybe the seller can contact him directly.
In the world of consumers wanting it now and everything being watered down, people only look at price and "what other say" while those "others" go by what "others say" so it can become a game of misinformation and blind buying. Like Aldan American coilovers were "hot for a minute" until they fell off due to quality issues and poor performance when people started using them. So things will work themselves out.
When the drift crowd buys into stuff (Silvers/BC Racing), I'm very skeptical of the quality and performance. I admittedly don't follow anything drifting, but my initial impression is double the steering angle and lower a car then go drift. Not much "setup" to a drift car and I don't see the suspension needing to be finely tuned or setup compared to autocross. The suspension needs to work so much harder during autocross.
Isn't there a guy boasting all over FB about Silvers anytime a coilover question comes up? Is he the owner or something? Maybe the seller can contact him directly.
In the world of consumers wanting it now and everything being watered down, people only look at price and "what other say" while those "others" go by what "others say" so it can become a game of misinformation and blind buying. Like Aldan American coilovers were "hot for a minute" until they fell off due to quality issues and poor performance when people started using them. So things will work themselves out.
When the drift crowd buys into stuff (Silvers/BC Racing), I'm very skeptical of the quality and performance. I admittedly don't follow anything drifting, but my initial impression is double the steering angle and lower a car then go drift. Not much "setup" to a drift car and I don't see the suspension needing to be finely tuned or setup compared to autocross. The suspension needs to work so much harder during autocross.
Drift set ups (in my experience) are very similar to drag race, big rebound in the rear and just enough in the front to prevent spring oscillation. I would imagine it is a linear piston with a big adjustment sweep on the rebound side which will work decently for most applications. A lot of people feel a firmer ride, less body roll and think wow these are great.
Lower end stuff usually has a steel body which retains heat and changes the characteristics of the damper through the course of a session, thin shims that will tulip prematurely (especially with heavy track use) and they are very generalized so they will work for any scenario but won't be spectacular in any.
I knew the comments and arguments were utter trash when one referred to the LG design as problematic.
There truly is no knowledge base among buyers. Like I said, I challenged every poster one night as to the Why and no one could quantify their response.
All we see now is the marketing of one who is online all day. Half my annoyance is that I can not in fact read a thread about suspension or brake anything without Silvers being spammed by the vendor, varied unsubstantiated claims, vague product comments, and a litany of customers posting how they bought them too.
Dane - does anyone out there have a truly strong education video on the design and benefits of coilovers? What would be some of the ways you as a manufacturer differentiate one brand from another?
Dane - does anyone out there have a truly strong education video on the design and benefits of coilovers? What would be some of the ways you as a manufacturer differentiate one brand from another?
I feel this is less about benefits of coilovers in the sense of coilovers as a general topic. I feel it has more to do with shock design/valving, matching it to spring rates for the desired application.
Simply put I feel coilovers big benefit is ability to cheaply change spring rates to fine tune car characteristics, then matching a shock valve curve to properly control said spring. Clearly this is a VERY vague comment but that's what we do. Vendors like Penske/LG/Gspeed all have track experience matching shock valving to track characteristics and start building a library of combinations that work well. At least this is how I ASSUME they do it.
The big quantifier here is matching a valving combination to a dyno curve and associating those with on track results. Once things "work" you can say the associated dyno curve is the "master" and it took X,Y,Z valve components to generate that dyno curve. Then all subsequent shock builds with the same valve components SHOULD match the same dyno curve within an allowable tolerance.
Again, I ASSUME this is how it would work...makes sense in my head lol
That said, this is why I assume you get no answers from the "masses" and or any of these pushy vendors marketing their products. Start asking for dyno curves of all these vendors...it's something they should be able to supply and I wouldn't think is proprietary since all shocks are compared via a dyno curve...
I would agree that they are not going to openly share their valve components that generated that dyno curve. That may be their "secret sauce".
I knew the comments and arguments were utter trash when one referred to the LG design as problematic.
There truly is no knowledge base among buyers. Like I said, I challenged every poster one night as to the Why and no one could quantify their response.
All we see now is the marketing of one who is online all day. Half my annoyance is that I can not in fact read a thread about suspension or brake anything without Silvers being spammed by the vendor, varied unsubstantiated claims, vague product comments, and a litany of customers posting how they bought them too.
Dane - does anyone out there have a truly strong education video on the design and benefits of coilovers? What would be some of the ways you as a manufacturer differentiate one brand from another?
Not any Corvette specific videos that I am aware of. I can't really speak to the differences between us and others. I can't say much because I don't know others processes. I'm sure most don't dyno the shocks which can have surprisingly large variances side to side with the exact same internal components, we'll rebuild change piston bands redyno etc until they are very close side to side. We've worked with Bilstein for nearly 25 years now so we have a fair amount of experience with the Corvette platform.
Originally Posted by smitty2919
I feel this is less about benefits of coilovers in the sense of coilovers as a general topic. I feel it has more to do with shock design/valving, matching it to spring rates for the desired application.
Simply put I feel coilovers big benefit is ability to cheaply change spring rates to fine tune car characteristics, then matching a shock valve curve to properly control said spring. Clearly this is a VERY vague comment but that's what we do. Vendors like Penske/LG/Gspeed all have track experience matching shock valving to track characteristics and start building a library of combinations that work well. At least this is how I ASSUME they do it.
The big quantifier here is matching a valving combination to a dyno curve and associating those with on track results. Once things "work" you can say the associated dyno curve is the "master" and it took X,Y,Z valve components to generate that dyno curve. Then all subsequent shock builds with the same valve components SHOULD match the same dyno curve within an allowable tolerance.
Again, I ASSUME this is how it would work...makes sense in my head lol
That said, this is why I assume you get no answers from the "masses" and or any of these pushy vendors marketing their products. Start asking for dyno curves of all these vendors...it's something they should be able to supply and I wouldn't think is proprietary since all shocks are compared via a dyno curve...
I would agree that they are not going to openly share their valve components that generated that dyno curve. That may be their "secret sauce".
Basic function is properly spring the car then valve the shock strong enough to effectively control the energy of the spring to prevent oscillation. You can use less spring rate and influence the chassis more with the shock (that's where it starts to become black magic).
Correct, we have base stacks that should produce x number with this piston band and this piston and shocks are validated to that number as well as side to side. Most companies probably have a 20-25lb side to side tolerance, I've seen stuff 50lbs apart side to side on more inexpensive shocks. I like to have them within 10lbs before they leave. I have been making some refinements to our stacks the past year or so, same general philosophy, just implementing some things we learned in C8 development.
For what reasons do you question about Coilovers on a C5???
I'm not questioning anything. I'm considering purchasing coil overs. Some of the info in this thread could be a few years old so I was asking if there is any updated info to add. New companies offering coilovers in 2024? Existing companies with new options when ordering coilovers?
The article says the T1 springs were created 20+ years ago because SCCA required you to retain a leaf spring set up, right? Old technology used to meet very specific situational requirements doesn't really make keeping a leaf setup for anything that doesn't require you to retain a leaf spring in 2024 a logical choice. If you still need them for SCCA, that makes sense. Or if you just want them because they're a piece of history and you like the idea, that makes sense too. Nothing wrong with that.
For street driving, the overall ride refinement my "cheap" coilovers added was noticeable and appreciated. I have zero track experience, and I may be wrong, but I believe the majority of Corvette race cars you'll find use coilovers as well (unless it's a personal choice or required by class).
I've only ever put them on motorcycles, but Penske shocks are sublime! There's no other word for it.
Too bad they cost a fortune, but at least they are fully re-buildable and re-valveable to your specifications.
I'm giving this thread a bump since I'm considering coilovers. Any developments or options for C5 coilovers in 2024?
I think the older posts are still relevant.
Viking, LG, are two of the proven easy button options.
Hard to do much better without spending a lot more money. I bought the Viking Berserker dbl adjustable.
I’ve only had them for a few months but have been very happy. Mine is not a track car but I do Autocross and spend 90% of my driving in western NC.
I feel like I work them pretty hard and they have a huge adjustment range . LG is proven as well especially at the track. I don’t own the coilovers but have bought other parts that were high quality. QA1 deserves mention
JRi and Penske of your budget is baller
Lots of lower end stuff that will get the job done if your primary concern is ride height.
12-26-2022, 04:51 PM
Thanks in advance. 