C5 Z06 balancer not in line with accessory pullies
04-22-2014, 08:59 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
C5 Z06 balancer not in line with accessory pullies
Need some advice here, My harmonic balancer has moved out about a 1/4" from the crank (Not sure if the bolt is loose or the rubber is seperating), My car does have an aftermarket cam so I am thinking maybe they did not replace the bolt upon reassembly. I have done a search and get mixed reviews, I plan on purchasing a new OEM balancer as I do not want to spend 300-400 on the ATI unit that is recommended. I have seen many people talk about pinning the balancer but that is mostly on FI applications. Is this something I should do, & can anyone direct me to a link to a pin kit?
For the install is there any easier way to do this than removing the PS rack?
Is there any way to verify the current balancer is good without removing it? I was thinking I could drop one side of the rack & have the space to replace just the bolt. My thinking behind this is since the car has an aftermarket cam, it is more probable that the problem is the bolt being re-used or improperly installed could be the culprit.
Opinions?
For the install is there any easier way to do this than removing the PS rack?
Is there any way to verify the current balancer is good without removing it? I was thinking I could drop one side of the rack & have the space to replace just the bolt. My thinking behind this is since the car has an aftermarket cam, it is more probable that the problem is the bolt being re-used or improperly installed could be the culprit.
Opinions?
04-22-2014, 09:51 AM
#2
Melting Slicks
I have tracked my C5 about 35 times and after about 10 of those times my balancer walked on me. Gingerman, especially, is a third gear course and 4000-6000 rpm much of the time. I replaced it with a OEM balancer, Torqued it to GM specs--another story in itself--and then pinned it. Another 25+ hpde's and it has not moved. The hardest part is getting it torqued properly. If it has moved that much you need to replace it. Myself, I would not chance using the same one but putting an new one in.
04-22-2014, 10:45 AM
#3
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I have tracked my C5 about 35 times and after about 10 of those times my balancer walked on me. Gingerman, especially, is a third gear course and 4000-6000 rpm much of the time. I replaced it with a OEM balancer, Torqued it to GM specs--another story in itself--and then pinned it. Another 25+ hpde's and it has not moved. The hardest part is getting it torqued properly. If it has moved that much you need to replace it. Myself, I would not chance using the same one but putting an new one in.
If I am going to go through this trouble I want it right. For tourqing it properly I saw people saying put the car in 4th gear and have someone stand on the brake.. I guess I will try that.
Originally Posted by Gordy M
Possibly the person doing the CAM reused the OEM bolt. A big NO-NO.
No way to get to the bolt other than drop the rack out of the way. You can get under the car and with a mechanics mirror to inspect the balancer and see if the rubber is separating from the inner and outer hub/pulley. May also be able to do that from the top. Also when the bolt is loose it usually backs itself out and up against the rack.
Since you are going through big work to get to the bolt, you might as well replace the balancer while you are there and avoid having to go it again. It's more than 10 years old and the deterioration of the rubber center has already started for certain. I would not use an OEM bolt. They are onetime use torque to yield and throw away if replacement is necessary. ARP makes a replacement that can be reused and is far simpler to torque. If you want to pin the balancer you certainly need rack completely out of the way to get in there to be able to drill the holes in the crank snout and balancer into which the pins will be inserted. If you are doing this yourself you need to be certain NOT to turn either the rack or steering wheel while the rack is out. Doing so changes the position of the steering wheel position sensor and you will have TC and AH problems if moved.
No way to get to the bolt other than drop the rack out of the way. You can get under the car and with a mechanics mirror to inspect the balancer and see if the rubber is separating from the inner and outer hub/pulley. May also be able to do that from the top. Also when the bolt is loose it usually backs itself out and up against the rack.
Since you are going through big work to get to the bolt, you might as well replace the balancer while you are there and avoid having to go it again. It's more than 10 years old and the deterioration of the rubber center has already started for certain. I would not use an OEM bolt. They are onetime use torque to yield and throw away if replacement is necessary. ARP makes a replacement that can be reused and is far simpler to torque. If you want to pin the balancer you certainly need rack completely out of the way to get in there to be able to drill the holes in the crank snout and balancer into which the pins will be inserted. If you are doing this yourself you need to be certain NOT to turn either the rack or steering wheel while the rack is out. Doing so changes the position of the steering wheel position sensor and you will have TC and AH problems if moved.
I bought the car as is, so the cam swap was already complete, Not sure who did it therefore am questioning whether they re-used the stock bolt.
I think you are right though I may as well replace the balancer while I am there, New OEM unit is only about $80 bucks, will also look into the ARP bolt. Now just need to find info about pinning the balancer to crank. I watch 'Froggy's' youtube video and it seemed very time consuming & extensive. Hopefully it wont take me that long since I will be doing it on my 2 post lift.
Thanks for your help guys.
04-22-2014, 03:44 PM
#5
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
04-22-2014, 06:54 PM
#6
Team Owner
I can't agree 100%. 3 years ago, when I did the CompCams trunnion upgrade to my car, I wanted to be sure I wasn't torqueing the rocker arm retaining bolts against the tension of the valve springs. Therefore, I rotated the engine by hand, so each cylinder had both valves closed, when I R&Red the rockers. I was able to rotate the engine using an offset, combination box/open end wrench on the balancer bolt. Obviously, you couldn't properly torque that balancer bolt with that wrench, but on the other hand, you could at least check for some kind of torque being present.
04-22-2014, 08:16 PM
#7
Team Owner
PBU1117SS = 25% underdrive
Good unit. Shop around. Big variation on prices. Hinson Motorsports has the NU for $184.99 and the 25% for $199.95. Pretty sure the SLP unit is actually a PB.
04-22-2014, 08:27 PM
#8
Racer
Pin it and be done with it. Mine walked with just a mild cam and I installed the new bolt that walked myself, so I know it was done right. The second new bolt never waked on me.
Kurt
Kurt
04-23-2014, 09:44 AM
#9
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks everyone for the replies. I have decided to run a new OEM balancer, Pin kit, & ARP bolt. Will also be ordering the balancer install tool.
Going to order everything today and tear everything down friday. Hopefully can finish install this weekend. Need to get this done so I can tear my truck down for a cam install as well.
Going to order everything today and tear everything down friday. Hopefully can finish install this weekend. Need to get this done so I can tear my truck down for a cam install as well.
04-23-2014, 06:38 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
The OEM balancer has a history of common failures. Why get an OEM as a replacement? You are asking for another failure. Mine failed at about 30k miles.
If cost is the concern, at least get a PowerBond replacement. From O'Reilly's they are about $100.
The ARP bolt was my choice too. The pin kit is a good choice too. The balancer installation tool is needed, but you can do it for less by finding the right threaded rod and a few nuts and washers (it could save you a few dollars).
Good luck.
If cost is the concern, at least get a PowerBond replacement. From O'Reilly's they are about $100.
The ARP bolt was my choice too. The pin kit is a good choice too. The balancer installation tool is needed, but you can do it for less by finding the right threaded rod and a few nuts and washers (it could save you a few dollars).
Good luck.
04-23-2014, 10:20 PM
#11
Pro
Member Since: Sep 2008
Location: Tustin California
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i wouldn't use an OEM balancer if it was free. A c2501 from Summit is about $190 and will last forever (well almost). It is an eight rib but you only use the front 6. I'm FI and it is pinned and has served me well for 6 years. Rod
04-24-2014, 07:44 AM
#12
Racer
Balancer
The balancer replacement is not that hard, I just did mine, use the proper tools to remove and install the balancer. I would also use the arp bolt. The biggest pain is the steering rack, use a 18 mm crows foot flare nut wrench to remove the hoses. Ther are many threads on the forum.......good luck.
04-24-2014, 08:37 AM
#13
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
The OEM balancer has a history of common failures. Why get an OEM as a replacement? You are asking for another failure. Mine failed at about 30k miles.
If cost is the concern, at least get a PowerBond replacement. From O'Reilly's they are about $100.
The ARP bolt was my choice too. The pin kit is a good choice too. The balancer installation tool is needed, but you can do it for less by finding the right threaded rod and a few nuts and washers (it could save you a few dollars).
Good luck.
If cost is the concern, at least get a PowerBond replacement. From O'Reilly's they are about $100.
The ARP bolt was my choice too. The pin kit is a good choice too. The balancer installation tool is needed, but you can do it for less by finding the right threaded rod and a few nuts and washers (it could save you a few dollars).
Good luck.
Last edited by maroon88iroc; 04-24-2014 at 08:53 AM.
04-24-2014, 01:33 PM
#15
Team Owner
05-23-2014, 11:30 AM
#16
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I am just now getting to where I am doing this work, unfortunately I am a DUMBAZZ and ordered everything except for the pin kit b/c I thought summit would have it and they dont 
The only pin kit summit has is a side pin which will not work with the powerbond pulley I bought.
I have everything torn apart and really want to drive the car to a car event tomorrow afternoon that I am hosting, what do you guys think about pinning the front of the crank WITHOUT the kit?
The only pin kit summit has is a side pin which will not work with the powerbond pulley I bought.
I have everything torn apart and really want to drive the car to a car event tomorrow afternoon that I am hosting, what do you guys think about pinning the front of the crank WITHOUT the kit?
05-23-2014, 11:58 AM
#17
Burning Brakes
Doubt that it's possible. The pin kit includes a fixture that when bolted to the crank acts as a guide for the drill bit to perfectly align the pin between the crank snout and balancer. I don't see that happening without it.
05-23-2014, 12:30 PM
#18
Safety Car
Your PB balancer doesn't have a keyway? Both mine do, but both are 25% UD versions.
You should be able to find the front pin kits from various sources. Texas Speed, or maybe Hinson? Also Tick Performance or Brian Tooley.
Ron
You should be able to find the front pin kits from various sources. Texas Speed, or maybe Hinson? Also Tick Performance or Brian Tooley.
Ron
05-23-2014, 12:50 PM
#19
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
The factory replacement PB balancer does not have a keyway. I have found several front pin kits available by order but I really want the car done tomorrow for a car event I am hosting.
