Starter Design Can Break The Block
04-07-2014, 05:59 PM
#22
Known this since 2011 and found years of info back then. I tried to start my motor when it was hydrolocked which breaks the weak starter mount with the short bolt. The torque then breaks engine boss the long bolt is in. Or something like that.
Insurance totalled my car at that that point. I bought it back and ebayed a starter designed for 2 long bolts. I read somoene was successful with epoxying the engine boss. I wasn't but there was enought of the boss there to rig up a long bolt to hold the starter on. It actually worked for years until I had an injector stick and hydrolocked my motor again. Block is cracked this time so no need to fix the boss.
Insurance totalled my car at that that point. I bought it back and ebayed a starter designed for 2 long bolts. I read somoene was successful with epoxying the engine boss. I wasn't but there was enought of the boss there to rig up a long bolt to hold the starter on. It actually worked for years until I had an injector stick and hydrolocked my motor again. Block is cracked this time so no need to fix the boss.
04-07-2014, 10:23 PM
#23
Le Mans Master
04-07-2014, 10:26 PM
#24
Le Mans Master
I'm wondering how many of these failures happened on engines that have had their original starters removed and/or replaced prior to the failures. If the short sided bolt or both bolts for that matter were not tightened to specs or loosened after installed this would shock the starter bendix housing as well as the mounting boss on the block resulting in the broken parts. I would venture to guess the starter and block broke simultaneously. I'm not advocating against upgrading to the new design starter just trying to understand what could be the root cause in the first place. If not installed with the bolts tightened to specs or loosening I would bet a new design starter may cause the block to fail also.
My starter has never been out so I'm not going to check the torque on the bolts (let sleeping dogs lie) but I did reach down and put a paint mark on the short side bolt where you can see it in the block from above. I'll check it periodically to see if there is any movement.
My starter has never been out so I'm not going to check the torque on the bolts (let sleeping dogs lie) but I did reach down and put a paint mark on the short side bolt where you can see it in the block from above. I'll check it periodically to see if there is any movement.
04-08-2014, 09:46 AM
#28
Drifting
Spent some time on two GM parts suppliers catalogs on available C5 model year starters. Both sites have identical results and show 2 different starters available, they do not show the parts number listing, but the difference is reflected in the starters cost. The first model is for C5 MY 97-01, the second starter shows a slight price decrease and is listed for C5 MY 02-04
So based on that one could assume that the starter listed for model years 2002-2004 would be the 2 long bolt version? If I get some time today I might swing by the local dealership and verify this. Does anyone know with certainty that these two different starters are interchangeable with all the C5 years.
So based on that one could assume that the starter listed for model years 2002-2004 would be the 2 long bolt version? If I get some time today I might swing by the local dealership and verify this. Does anyone know with certainty that these two different starters are interchangeable with all the C5 years.
04-08-2014, 12:33 PM
#29
Spent some time on two GM parts suppliers catalogs on available C5 model year starters. Both sites have identical results and show 2 different starters available, they do not show the parts number listing, but the difference is reflected in the starters cost. The first model is for C5 MY 97-01, the second starter shows a slight price decrease and is listed for C5 MY 02-04
So based on that one could assume that the starter listed for model years 2002-2004 would be the 2 long bolt version? If I get some time today I might swing by the local dealership and verify this. Does anyone know with certainty that these two different starters are interchangeable with all the C5 years.
So based on that one could assume that the starter listed for model years 2002-2004 would be the 2 long bolt version? If I get some time today I might swing by the local dealership and verify this. Does anyone know with certainty that these two different starters are interchangeable with all the C5 years.
I had the same question. Was there a running change at some point during the C5's production life, or are the long bolt versions strictly a replacement part?
I'm going to take a look at my '02 tonight and see which I have. I've never replaced it, nor did the P.O. to my knowledge (wasn't in his meticulous pile of maintenance paperwork at least).
04-08-2014, 06:33 PM
#30
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '10-'12-'13-'14-'15-'16-'17
I had the same question. Was there a running change at some point during the C5's production life, or are the long bolt versions strictly a replacement part?
I'm going to take a look at my '02 tonight and see which I have. I've never replaced it, nor did the P.O. to my knowledge (wasn't in his meticulous pile of maintenance paperwork at least).
Picture one shows old style on left new style on right. So it would seem that as of 2011 there was at least a new design available.
Picture two shows a current model avaialble from Pace Performance N6492 - Brand New LS OEM Replacement Starter :
Picture three shows the model from Powermaster XS Torque Starters 9509 to be installed on my 2000 coupe:
Dont know when the new design superceded the old from GM, but hope this helps some.
04-08-2014, 09:40 PM
#32
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St. Jude Donor '08
Cast Iron is brittle also. Unless you change starters, this damage is ALWAYS a possibility.
Bill
Bill
04-08-2014, 10:11 PM
#33
Racer
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What is causing the hydrolock issues you guys are having? Never heard of that unless you have a turbo/blower/nitrous and you're lifting the heads enough to cause a head gasket leak.
04-09-2014, 08:44 PM
#34
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Mike
In my case, I had ported heads. The port job exposed a flaw in the roof of the intake port for #1 cylinder. I had to go to Guam for a 35 day period. When I returned it was my birthday (March) and a very nice day. So,,, I decided to drive the Z to work.
As soon as I turned the key, the engine made about one revolution and stopped dead in its tracks. Funny thing
the starter was still running.
CAUSE: The coolant filled the intake port and when the cam hit the intake stroke, that runner full of coolant dumped into the cylinder and when my 11:1 piston hit the coolant, the resulting flywheel mass and caused the short side to crush and snap off that corner of the block
I sent the head back to Patriot Performance and they repaired it. Good as new.
Bill
In my case, I had ported heads. The port job exposed a flaw in the roof of the intake port for #1 cylinder. I had to go to Guam for a 35 day period. When I returned it was my birthday (March) and a very nice day. So,,, I decided to drive the Z to work.
As soon as I turned the key, the engine made about one revolution and stopped dead in its tracks. Funny thing
the starter was still running.CAUSE: The coolant filled the intake port and when the cam hit the intake stroke, that runner full of coolant dumped into the cylinder and when my 11:1 piston hit the coolant, the resulting flywheel mass and caused the short side to crush and snap off that corner of the block
I sent the head back to Patriot Performance and they repaired it. Good as new.
Bill
04-09-2014, 09:16 PM
#35
Team Owner
The reason that the old original design starter causes the problem is because the tab on the short bolt side of the starter is too small and breaks off , causing all of the weight and torque of the starter to be put on the outside long bolt which is located at the outside of the engine block with the threads only being about 3/8 inch from the outside of the block which understandably rips the outside edge off of the block. Sometimes being caused by hydrolock of the engine , but can happen just from a backfire of the engine while starting or just age of a weak starter tab. People will spend thousands for mods that are pretty , why wouldn't you spend a couple hundred dollars to prevent a probable catastrophe to your engine. My car only had 20k. miles and no starter problems and I replaced it with a "brand new" ( Delco Remy sold at Auto Zone Auto Parts Part #989559 DL89702S ) LIFETIME WARRANTY Forgetaboutit !
For new, I recommend Bosch SR8581N. Comes with the extra long bolt. Available widely, reasonably priced.
04-09-2014, 09:39 PM
#36
Le Mans Master
Nope , brand new Delco Remy stamped right on the housing . Lifetime Warranty . Just sold under the DuraLast name.
04-09-2014, 10:19 PM
#37
Team Owner
Their new starter would be a "Dura Last" part number DLG9702S. They put the letter "G" in the part number for "Gold", their more premium parts.
I think the manufacturer is Remy International and uses the Delco-Remy name under license from GM and sells it (new) under 96228 part number.
04-15-2014, 12:43 PM
#38
Le Mans Master
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Just wondering if it would be possible to get just the rear housing/mount and change that part only if the starter doesn't have that many miles on it? Use to do that waaaaay back when. Just wondering what the cost difference would be from a new starter?
04-15-2014, 03:53 PM
#39
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Would just like to throw in my .02, had this happen on my 99 c5 with 57k miles. Its not caused by hydrolock specifically. Mine started with an occasional grinding when I would start it but not every time. Deciding to finally replace my starter I found that the corner of the block had been taken off. I was lucky enough to not have to get it welded nor replaced. I found a guy online that makes "starter bridges" for ls engines that have had the starter mounting ear broken off. Tad pricey at $550 but it was worth it completely, saved my *** a whole lot of trouble.
04-15-2014, 04:00 PM
#40
Team Owner
I'm sure it could be done. Just locate a used (working or not) junk yard starter from a late model Silverado/Yukon/Escalade and remove the nose casting.