z06nic

Hi all,

I recently sent my 2002 z06 to a dealership for an engine rebuild. I won't mention any names, but the dealership had a high reputation, so I felt secure. They sent my engine to a company that many nationwide Chevrolet dealerships use to re-manufacture engines. When I went to pick the car up, I noticed that the engine was not my LS6 - but instead an LS1 engine. They claimed that the contracted company shipped the wrong engine back, but I am curious as to how they could not have caught this. I had some extra work done on the engine for preventative measures (plugs, wires, intake manifold, etc.) that was all done to the wrong engine.

My question is this: is the LS6 noticeably different from the LS1? Are there any differences between installation that the dealership should have noticed to identify it was the wrong type of engine?

I was very close to paying $12,000 for downgraded performance, which is very scary. I'm trying to figure out if further action should be taken and against whom. Any help would be GREATLY appreciated!

heavymetals

"The LS6 is a higher-output version of GM's LS1 engine and retains the same capacity. The initial 2001 LS6 produced 385 bhp (287 kW) and 385 lbf·ft (522 N·m), but the engine was modified for 2002 through 2004 to produce 405 bhp (302 kW) and 400 lbf·ft (540 N·m) of torque. The LS6 was originally only used in the high-performance C5 Corvette Z06 model, with the Cadillac CTS V-Series getting the 400 bhp (300 kW) engine later. The V-Series used the LS6 for two years before being replaced by the LS2 in 2006. For 2006, the Z06 replaced the LS6 with the new LS7. The LS6 shares its basic block architecture with the GM LS1 engine, but other changes were made to the design such as windows cast into the block between cylinders, improved main web strength and bay to bay breathing, an intake manifold and MAF-sensor with higher flow, a camshaft with higher lift and more duration, a higher compression ratio of 10.5:1, sodium filled valves, and a revised oiling system better suited to high lateral acceleration.[3] LS6 intake manifolds were also used on all 2001–2002 LS1 engines. The casting number, located on the top rear edge of the block, is 12561168"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GM_LS_engine

AU N EGL

pics of the head casting numbers on the right side would help

Bill Curlee

OH BOY!! That service manager and the General Manager are SWEATING BULLETS hoping this will go away QUIELY!

You can bet a PAY CHECK on that! There going to try to convince you that EVERYTHING IS JUST FINE!

Start with GM Customer Service Assistance and file a complaint. Talk to the service manager and tell him you want the ZO6 LS6 engine that is standard to the ZO6 installed in the car. Be nice , to the point, factual and don’t be an ***. Take names, dates, problems discussed answers given and all the stuff to build your case. KEEP ALL PAPERWORK!
BUILD A CASE like it a murder trial!

If you paid with a credit card, file a complaint with the credit card company and use that as a last resort to deny payment due to the dealership inability to complete the repair correctly.

I would NOT sleep until this is FIXED correctly and to your favor!! They would NOT want me in that corner. I would be a wolverine ready to attack if they tried to bamboozle me!! :-o

Your car was BUILT with a ZO6 engine,, went in for service with a ZO6 engine and it should drive out of the Stealership with a ZO6 ENGINE!

YES,, a ZO6 engine is different enough that I would raise a royal SH!& Fit if they denied service to fix the issue!!

Bill

baxsom

are you sure it is has the internals of a LS1? it may just be an 01+ LS1 block with z06 internals. maybe they found something wrong with your block and gave you a newer one.

mchicia1

Aside from the mixup, holy crap @ $12,000 for an engine rebuild. Even with the labor cost, that is steep! Especially for a stock rebuild. Isnt a NEW longblock like $6k? How did this come out to $12k?

AU N EGL

part of the challenge is they GM does not cast LS6 blocks any more.

Paul 75 L82

Listen to Bill, if there was any reason that they had to use a LS1 block then you should have been notified beforehand. It's too bad because we have vendors here on the forum that could have done you better for less. Bottom line you should get what was agreed upon when you approved and signed the work order.

hdkeno

Bill is spot on on this one.

Mark-44

z06nic

When we discovered the heads were different, we had the dealership check the rest of the internals to verify if that was the case. They determined the engine had LS1 internals and, thus, was an LS1 and not an LS6.

The engine rebuild was quoted as $9,100 for parts and labor. I know I'm missing a few things, but off the top of my head, the other things done were:
I spoke with some of the guys on the forum, but decided to go through the dealership because the engine rebuild would also contain a 3 year, 100,000 mile warranty. As the supplier they work through is used by almost every other Chevy dealer, I could take my car into any dealership if problems occurred.

If you were in this situation, how would you handle this? I will most certainly make sure the engine is an LS6 before I pay, but should I take any further action?

RonSSNova

If you just think longblock, what is the actual difference from the LS1 and the LS6. Especially after the blocks were changed to be the same.
Cam and heads?

Ron

whitehooptie

http://sdparts.com/details/gm-goodwr...gines/89017548

http://sdparts.com/details/gm-perfor...parts/17801267

Posted from another member... (sperkins)


I bought an LS6 crate from Scoggins Dickey last year for $3,245 shipped. Luckily I haven't had to use it yet.
They don't list it on their web page so you'll have to call.

1-800-888-4251
Part# X19210918
"Online special for free freight" code: 203587963-5

ZeeOSix

If it was me this was happening to, I'd be telling the dealership that I want in writing and notarized that they will make everything 100% right to my satisfaction as it should have been in the first place, or my lawyer will be contacting them very soon!

baxsom

holy crap 12K!! i missed that part. damn. i put a GM crate zz454 that dynoed 450/500 in my C3 for not even half of that.

speedmon

Wow!
This is one of nightmare dealer stories that you only hear about.....

How did you come to find out that it was an LS1 instead of an LS6? I mean they look basically the same except for the red dress covers over the black......and closer inspection shows the intake part numbers are different.

If you went to the dealer to retain the stock nature of the car and of course to take advantage of the GM 3yr/100K mile warranty, then the dealer is legally obligated to use only OEM equivalent components. In CA, (I don't know what state you are in) If they deviate, they must notify you of changes in parts and in $$ in advance before they proceed.

Now.....all that aside...."rebuild" is a general term and could be defined in many ways.....could be same block...mill crank...new rods...pistons...head job etc. It depends on the service order that you signed.

The other approach, and GM reccomends this... is to buy a GM finished assembly and use the dealer to install.....all parts 3 year, 100K mile warranty.

Like someone mentioned....they just should've bought an LS6 long block and added components to it....

But it is true that GMPP and retail vendors are running short of LS6 longies......so they may have to substitute....but they should notify you....that would be the human thing to do.

Now you have to manage the quality at the dealer? That is precisely why GM wants you to buy finished assemblies....so the customer doesn't have to manage the dealers.

Moving forward......
Always write down your expectations with the dealer. What does rebuild mean?
Always start with the GMPP catalog......warranty starts there.
(On major assemblies like engines the buyer receives a separate warranty card from GM, which every GM dealer in the world will honor....just in case you move.)

Here's the 2011 one
http://www.gmperformanceparts.com/_r...talog_2010.pdf
Here is the LS6 Longie from Superior Chevrolet....a dealer
http://www.superchevyperformance.com...p/19210918.htm $4,599.00 3yr 100K warranty

Make dealer affirm the GM warranty in writing. Custom **** from a nationally renowned engine rebuilder does NOT count! Warranty would be a concern here.

Make them write down their labor standards for the estimated work....GM supplies these to the dealer. The remove and replace of an engine assembly on a Z06 corvette is 15.7 hours including fluid change.

My dealer knows me, I know him and he knows how they are supposed to operate.....I love them! They have never exceeded the labor standard once.....if GM heard of them doing this, they would make the dealer pay for more training!....which is expensive.

Look at the engine prices from Superior.....subtract about $1600 for R&R and thats what you can buy for $12K.....
Looks to me like this one
LSA....556HP supercharged! 3yr 100K mile warranty. or
LS376/525HP......for $7500 Complete!

If you think the dealers won't do the work.....look at the cover of the catalog.

speedmon

Oh.....I just saw this one....
?Distributor seals & gaskets?
Where is the distributor on a LS6 engine?

You're jacking with us, right?

How would you even go about validating that it's an LS6 engine? You'd have to tear it down.......that's the benefit of going with GMPP....warranty card in writing.

Have you asked your dealer about GMs or his committment to warranty?
From what you've said, GM is not the engine supplier, therefore warranty terms are unclear.

If this is not a hoax posting, you should stop the process and clarify expectations about parts and warranties (in writing). If you're not satisfied notify GM customer service for dealerships.

whitehooptie

As far as the block goes, if I remember right, you can tell between the LS1 and LS6 blocks by looking for the "bullseye" located on the front of the block top teft side above the water pump and the ear on the left side by the cylinder head. I think the LS1 blocks had the bullseye while the LS6 blocks did not.

And if I was you, If I paid what you paid for that stuff, I would want what was supposed to be in the car. That is why I posted the link earlier with the pricing. You could have got an 04 LS1 that is supposed to have an LS6 block and intake for 5500 which is still cheaper than what yo paid. I'd fight it to the end!

lucky131969

Yikes.....that shop saw you coming from a mile away....

You could have had one hell of a motor build for $9100. And you were charged for distributor seals ! Check your invoice again, and make sure they did not over charge you for muffler bearings.

AU N EGL

Contact an attorney. Sorry guy they saw you coming. But gave you the WRONG product.