Prolixus_C5Z

I picked up my 2002 Z in July and she had minimal front brake squeal. It's a fair weather car so they've lasted until recently when the squeak got significantly louder. I'm considering ceramic pads based on the low dust aspect but should I go with GM, Hawk, or Carbotech? Should I even be considering ceramics? I don't hit the track or drive in the rain or snow. She's a fair-weather driver with under 5K miles a year or so estimated driving. Performance-wise I don't beat on her too hard but I do enjoy what she can do now and again. Recommendations?

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

My vote would be for the Carbotech 1521 compound.

F $144 R $124 Less 7% forum pricing.

mitchcole

Stock: works great lots of dust. Z pads resist fade to a degree
GM ceramic: low dust, higher pedal force than stock, last a really long time, perform horribly in performance situations with repeated high speed stops. These are on my DD.
Hawk HPS - very similar to stock
Hawk HP+ - what I use at the track: squeeky noisy and they make a mess - but they stop great repeatedly. You're a very agressive track driver if you get them to fade. (some people consider it a graduation)

cdkcorvette7

I had ceramic pads once (not carbotech which I've heard great things about and am considering trying them but they are so friggin expensive for brake pads...) and I absolutely HATED them. I pulled them off after a couple of weeks because I didn't think they were safe for driving. I got into one panic stop situation where a driver in front of me on the highway slammed on their brakes suddently when a deer ran out into the road. I tried to shove my brake pedal through the floorboard and if the lane next to me hadn't been clear I would've hit the driver in front of me. The Hawk HPS pads I had before would've stopped the car with room to spare and no need to swerve. I run Hawk HPS or stock (very little percievable difference in stopping power to me) for DD and Hawk HP+ at the track. In light of that; my opinion is that ceramic pads (with high ceramic content) SUCK... on the plus side I guess my wheels stayed pretty for longer when I had them on.

If you run a search on this forum for which brakes you'll find more posts on the subject than I would personally ever care to read...

Good luck

Chicago1

Duralast from Autozone 45 bucks lifetime warranty, I change them out every year or so. No change from the $100 Hawks I had before.

Prolixus_C5Z

I definitely want something that'll stop me when I need to which is why I wonder about the ceramics. I've scoured the forum and found this criticism of ceramics a bit. I want my brakes to do what they do as best they can with a reasonable price and less dust. After a few days of driving to work and back (60 miles round-trip) it looks like I have black rims on the front and silver on the back I'd like to not have to wash my rims every other day or so if I don't have to. Thanks for all the input everybody!

oh1vette

^^^^
What pads ya got on there now?

I was in the same boat, left Hawk HP+ on for road use after a track day and man did they dust - switched out to HPS and the dust is not an issue any longer...by the way, just about the same commute as you....

WKMCD

This sounds almost word for word what I posted about the one time I tried AC Delco Ceramics on my car. I pulled them after about 1k miles and threw them in the trash. I ran Hawk HPS for a few years but the dust was killing me and pitting my wheels. I tried a set of Carbotech's - which I have on their now - and they are great pads. Excellent stopping and modulation and what very little dust there is is non-corrosive. I've recommended them to a few friends and they all love them also.


I DO drive the pi$$ out of my car!

Carbotech 1521's - Highly Recommended!!!

C5Jim

I got a set of Stop Tech pads front and rear and am very impressed.

They have great intial bite, great fade resistance (I only had it out on the track once this year though) and give very little dust.

The BMW and Porsche crowd rave about these pads and they're not too bad. The best thing is you can get them thru RockAuto for about $65 for the front pads and about $45 for the rear if my memory is correct.

Oldvetter

I vote for HAWK HPS pads.

Cybermind

Stock GM gets my vote. A little brake dust is a very small price to pay for excellent stopping power.

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

Carbotech is a 100% non crossive dust will not harm your wheels or your paint. Hawk will stain your paint and pit your wheels.

cdkcorvette7

That's funny. Were you also on the beltway when your ceramics scared the $hit out of you? It happened to me on 495S right around Tysons...

I used to see that beast on the road every once in a while but not so much recently. You have it hibernating for the winter?

sydneyACE

I have a set of "Power Stop Evolution Clean Ride" ceramics on my car.
I got them through Summit for Like $36 for the fronts and $25 for the rears.
I'm very happy with them.

Ceramic is great for street-use if you don't track your car.
They're quiet, clean, and have good grip when cold.

They're no good for the track though.
When I go to the track, I have a set of Carbotech XP10s that I run.

I don't understand what others are saying about thier ceramics not working for them on the street.
The traction of the tires is the dertermining factor when making panic-stops on cold brakes, not the pads.
If you mash your brake pedal good and hard, the tires will lock-up LONG before you have any brake-fade.
Unless your pads are hot (track or autocross) there's no reason you should have braking issues.
Sure they might not bite quite as hard as Hawks or Z06 stockers, but they WILL bite hard enough to get to the tires' traction-limit, and engage the ABS. (You can't stop any faster than your tires allow you to.)
I guess if you want your brakes to FEEL super-aggressive, you could run a performance pad on the street, but I feel like you're wasting money. Keep in-mind some performance pads wont work well when cold, they're dirtier, and queek more too.
To me it's a no-brainer.

cdkcorvette7

I respectfully disagree with you. Without debating the finer points of abs operation, if you have two identical cars under identical conditions with identical braking systems, the one with more friction at the rotors will stop faster than the other.

Ceramic is a harder material than the stock pads and therefore creates less friction when applied to the rotor.

If it wasn't for abs you'd be correct. Lock up the wheels and slide to a stop and as long as you can make the wheels skid it doesn't matter what your pads are made of. With abs your tires should not lock up and skid and, while they are certainly still a factor in stopping distance, the aren't the only one.

WKMCD

495 is not a good place to not have great brakes...Way too many asshats.

The car has been down about 2 months until I finally made some time to chase down an electrical problem. Not to worry, it's running great again. Not much fun to drive when the road temp goes to 50 degrees and below. Just waiting to DD Dennis to get my leather door panels, console and bezel done.

Lets hook up some time.

Kevin

sydneyACE

The only thing more friction at the rotors does is reduce the amount of brake-pedal pressure required for the same amount of braking power.

If a low friction pad still has enough friction with the rotor to overcome the tires' traction limit, then the tires become the "weakest link".

ABS has no effect on which pad will be more effective. ABS simply relieves brake pressure when the tires begin to skid because the driver pushes the pedal to hard. (Or the tires transition to a surface with less traction.)

Brake pads have no contact with the road. With modern disc brakes, tires are ALWAYS the limiting factor in how quickly a car can stop. (Unless the brakes are being used repeatedly and get too hot.)

The reason you feel like your high-friction pads are stopping your car better is because you don't have to push your pedal as hard for the same amount of breaking. Ceramic pads have enough friction to overcome the tires' traction threshold and engage the ABS. Just because you have to push the pedal a little harder to achieve this, doesn't mean you aren't stopping as fast.

If a brake pad has enough friction to engage the ABS (or cause the tires to skid on a car without ABS), then it is providing 100% of the stopping-power available to the car. Period. It's that simple.

So WHY do people use performance pads?
Ceramic pads don't hold-up well to high heat. If you are using your brakes repeatedly they will get too hot, and the Ceramic pads begin to loose friction. They loose so much friction that, they can no longer overcome the tires' traction threshold. I experienced this the first time I took my car to the track. My brakes got so hot that, I was pushing the pedal as hard as I could, and I still couldn't get the tires to start chirping.

To sum it all up;
Ceramic Pros:
Quite
Clean
Longer life

Ceramic Cons:
Can't cope with high-heat, repeated braking. (Track use)

Performance Pad Pros:
Can withstand the high-heat, repeated braking associated with track use.
Provide better "feel" especially when hot. (This comes back to the fact that you're not pushing on the pedal as hard.)

Performance Pad Cons:
Noisy (usually squeek or squeel more)
Dirty
Typically more expensive
Don't last as long.

Sorry for the lengthy post. I'm a mechanic, and this is kind-of a pet-peave of mine. I talk to a lot of people who have misconceptions about brakes.

mitchcole

I am using ceramics even though they don't have as much bite as the stockers. For an occasional panic stop - they're great. Considering the lifespan, lack of dust and performance for a daily driver - they may be a good choice. If you only take your car out on beautiful days and drive it hard the whole time - they may not be for you. For repeated high speed stops, they grenade and look like this:

Bill Dearborn

Bill