BLUTHUNDER

I'm considering getting the Rings replaced in my 99 C5 and was curious ..What is the method / duration of breaking for new rings?

Also does anybody know if the dealer can replace the rings with out haveing to take the heads off?? Can they do it from underneath?

I don't want them messing with my Cam / Head set up..Its just running to nice these days ;)

Thanks

Jeff


[Modified by BLUTHUNDER, 5:20 PM 4/21/2002]

MelloYellow

Same as new engine. 500 miles if you have the patience. ;)

You'll lose the Cam if you swap. Dealer will notice your heads. Unless you have a really good In over there.

Mike Mercury

Unless things have changed, its always been 3000 miles. With todays harder ring material and using synth oil... that was bumped to 5k miles.
I understand that "500" is the "take it easy" period on a new engine; but I don't think that denotes the ring-seating period. They don't even begin to seat in just 500 miles.

It should even take longer on a re-ringed engine, since the cylinder shape is not perfectly round anymore.

There is a way to do rings from the bottom by removing the crank; but it's not considered to be the proper method. But, just unbolting the heads... then placing them back on shouldn't cause any problems.

MelloYellow

Or, I could be wrong..
;)

SR1654

If they do new rings, will they notice the cam and reject the car for repairs??? How much is a ring replacement anyways??

7thgeneration

It takes at least 5000 miles to have new rings seat properly. New or rebuilt does not matter. That is why I cringe every time I read on this forum that once you reach 500, it is ok to tromp on it. :bs That is why later with several thousand miles and a few years later your car suddenly starts to use oil. :cry

vettenuts

Couldn't agree more. I went into my cylinders with a boroscope at 1,000 miles and found the hone marks looked like they were just done. I have 1,500 on it now and still have not gone WOT. I don't think they will break in for a long time since synthetics are used. My guess was 7-10,000 miles, but 5,000 is a good estimate also. I know it isn't 500 miles though, not based on what I saw.

MitchAlsup

I've pulled motorcycle engines at 50K miles (14,000 RPM engines) and some of them still had fresh-looking hone marks. You can't tell unless you get a magnifying glass (or loupe) and look at the surface of the hone marks. Never-the-less, it does take a long time to fully break in an engine--not less than 5% of its service life, and sometimes as long as 15%. My LT4 was not fully loosend up until 12,000 miles.

500 Miles is where the initial breakin has either happened, or won't happen. The initial machine marks from the build have interacted and become polished smooth enough to hold an oil film and the polished surface has widened enough that high pressures can be maintained by the oil film. This means you can get-it on, by all means do so, just don't get-it-on continuously (i.e. road race track) and don't expect it to be as good as it will be a couple thousand miles later.

cjones

Rings seat in about 50 miles. There is some break-in but a lot of tuners are dynoing cars right after a rebuilt with little break-in. I think 3k-5k is excessive.

BLUTHUNDER

Thanks for the feedback Guys ! I'm going to give this "Milatec" oil treatment a try ..A couple Forum Members have emailed me with great results.

If that fails , then i guess i'll bring her in for a "ring job ".


Jeff

Mike Mercury

Rings seat in about 50 miles.

Source?

cjones

Many engine builders including Al from MMS. If him or Mike see this maybe they will jump in. I'm not saying it's fully broken in my 50 miles, but the rings are seated.

Mike Mercury

Even a heads/cam package does not get into the cylinders; so there are no "new" rings to seat with a H/C package.

New rings are definitely not seated @ 50... nor 500 miles. That doesn't mean you can't dyno the car right away, thoygh.
If any "tuner" wants to "jump in" and say the rings are seated @ 50 miles... then let them. We all need a good laugh :lol:

WB6HRO

How about taking oil samples and waiting until the chromium count starts to drop?

don527

if the rings being replaced are the same ones used to correct the current oil consumption issue that the '01 owners have been talking about, then GM says that there is NO break in period. The designed them to wear almost immediately to normal operating levels. I'm just repeating what GM says.

If it were me, I'd still take it easy for a little while and even change the oil again before hammering it.

Don

Mike Mercury

Don, curious... where does GM say this? I would like to see the "official" info too.
"No Break In" and "rings are set" may be two phrases not describing the same thing.

Rings are made of extremely hard material; and they actually reshape the cylinder wall to an oval pattern that matches the non-perfect contour of the ring (talking pinned, or non-rotating types). Although the edge of the ring will wear some too, but the bulk of the "lapping" process is done on the cylinder wall.
That's the process behind the phrase "taking a set". The rings are "set" when the cylinder wall and the outside surface of the ring have conformed to each others shape.
When you place new rings into used cylinders you actually start off worse than you would with new rings and a new block (or new rings in re-honed cylinders); because the new rings are starting out in a non near-perfect cylinder shape.
Thats why the proper way to install new rings is to re-hone the cylinder wall (in an attempt to start with a near perfect circle again).

Unless GM went to extremely soft ring material; I can't see their claim of "no break-in required". And if it is soft rings; that may be a bomb waiting to go off as the mileage starts to get high.

I don't believe that GM saying (referencing the new rings placed in used engines) that "no break in is required" was trying to say the new rings set almost instantly. I think they are saying that the engine was already broken in; and just replacement of rings should not require a new break-in period as if it was a totally new engine.

Rob 99

Mike Mercury or anyone else that may have had the re-ring job, how do they remove the rings? I mean the only way i could think is to pull the motor and remove from the bottom end, after all thats how they went in, correct? I cant imagine letting the dealership do that, only an engine builder, re-builder, IMHO.

don527

I've contacted C4C5Specialist and asked him if he can tell me what the word is as far as break-in procedure and I'd relay it back to the forum or maybe he can post directly and offer his expertise on the matter.

I'm going by info that I have forgotten where I originally got it and rather ask a real authority for verification.

Also, I hear the fix is not always the same in every case where some owners have gotten entire piston assemblys replaced and not just the rings so i can't say for sure that the break-in procedure would be the same in that instance.

Here is the TSB on the issue:

http://www.ls1info.com/article.php?s...rder=0&thold=0

Don


[Modified by don527, 10:06 PM 4/23/2002]

c5pilot2001

I've been following this thread closely as I am thinking about having the engine re-ringed. I agree with Rob 99, I'm really hesitant to let the dealer take on such a challenge. On the flip side, I'm using a quart of oil every 900-1000 miles. Even more on a long highway trip. Hell, I'm not even sure that the dealer can drop in a new engine out of the box, let alone rebuild one.

On the flip side, what options do we have really as consumers. This is my first corvette and $44K and 15K miles later I have a car whose back end smokes like mad when I get on it and eats oil like an old Porsche.

Mike Mercury: it seems from what you say, that the re-ringing of a used engine is a moot issue in terms of longevity. How would I be able to prove that point, let's say, if I were going to try to get GM to buy this back as a Lemon?

:mad

c4c5specialist

Hi there,
If I may, fact here please.
First, the design of the piston ring in this issue, is of a scraper type design, and must be considered here. There is not the conventional box edge type design. It literally is a scraper type ring, designed to bed in almost immediately.
Per the GM bulletin, "The second compression ring will break in very quickly."
Now, I am told, by the powertrain engineer in on this issue, that 50 miles for complete breakin is normal. It is all in the design of the ring, nothing more, and nothing less.
As for the procedure, some do it in the car, others remove the engine. Personally, I like the engine out, then correct tolerancing can be done.
Heads must be removed, as well as the oil pan, and pickup screen.
Crankshaft may remain in place.
I hope this helps, besttoall, c4c5
:crazy: