ragtopC5

I just had an ls7 lifter fail and trash my cam. 2 years ago I installed a thunder racing 551/551 114lsa cam which I believe is ground by comp cams, 16 new ls7 lifters and patriot gold dual springs. The car has 17,000 miles since then, has always used mobile 1 or castrol full synthetic, and is rarely driven hard and was never over revved. Seems like the roller stopped spinning and started grinding into the cam lobe. Looks like oil filter caught all the debris. I cut it open and found only silver metal so I don't think anything got through to hurt my bearings. I'll be replacing the oil pump since it sucked up so much trash.
I would like to try and find the cause so I don't just replace the cam and lifters and have the same problem 2 years from now.

printmanjackson

did you use new lifter trays when the cam went it?

Rex99Coupe

Lifter trays

Whistler

What does the rest of the cam look like? Often the heat treatment on the aftermarket cam was sub-par and the cam lobes detriorate over time on their own.

CTD

Sucks.........Sorry for your luck.

This may not be of much help, I was reading somewhere about what happens when the roller may bounce on the cam.

The discussion was about LS7 or Cadillac Racing Lifters, they don't deal as well with that situation. Morels were better blah blah.

May have been over on LS1 Tech.

I have CRL in mine .........

Bill Curlee

I have the same Caddy lifters in mine. No issues so far.

Whistler

When you pull the old oil pump, pull the 10mm bolts off the front and take a look at the backside of the cover. Scratches that can catch a fingernail on that and the rotor can indicate the same condition for the bearings. If it wasn't driven long after the noise started, you should be OK.

printmanjackson

I have read something to the same thing. The cause seems to come from not having enough valve seat pressure or not enough valve spring and the lifter jumps on the ramp and the valve bounces when it closes causing the lifter to take all the abuse from the valve train. Seeing you only have one to fail and running patriot gold dual springs leads one to think it was something to do with that lifter or oiling to that lifter. I would look at all the lifters very close to try to see if they all show something.

099blancoss

One word: Morel

LS7 lifters are a stock lifter and are not a hi-performance lifter. We see them fail a lot with aftermarket cams and springs. I would also avoid the "caddy" lifters as people have trouble with them as well and properly matching things up.

Lifter trays wont do a thing if the pin starts coming out of the wheel.

ragtopC5

Lifter trays were not replaced but none of them are damaged or cracked.
Some of the other cam lobes have less than ideal looking wear patterns. They feel smooth to the touch but look a little rough. I'm used to seeing a polished stripe where the lifter touches the lobe.
Any suggestions other than Morel lifters? Are the comp cams ones any good? The Morels are a little more $$$ than I'd like but if they aren't going to fail I guess it's worth it.

Eric D

I could not disagree with you more. The lifters in current LSx engines are the finest made in the world. I’ve personally been in the plant that manufactures these lifters and every part is a select fit. The tolerances held are tighter than any other component in the entire car. The statistics speak for themselves. I also think it is bad marketing to use fear statements to increase one’s sale margin.

099blancoss

I the make same from selling an OEM lifter as I do the Morel so that really should take care of that theory.

Its the material used in them not the tolerances.

If you don't repair engines all the time as HKE does then you wont see the failures that are seen and probably say something uninformed as you did. But I don't post information to try and "scare" people into a Morel lifter to increase my profit margin or any other part.

Its posted from experience. Did I slap a link into the thread? No, not at all.

I sell enough of them to not post a sales thread about them at all on here. I sell them to other shops, some of them vendors on here as well as all over the world to be honest. The last thing I need to do is post innacurate information just to make a sale.

I'll add this as well... I have the lowest price on them.. translated that means I offer the best deal and make less on them and even donate 10% of that to SJCRH. And you think I'm trying to increase priofit margin by offering information only in a thread. YA OK !

Bill Curlee

Eric

Damn,,,,,,Well said!

I have had numerous C5 engine builders agree 100%. They recommended caddy lifters and thats what I am running. They also said if I couldn't get the caddy lifters, run LS7 lifters.

RagtopC5

I have seen quite a few CompCam Cam lobe surface failures in the past year. Sure the lifter on one of the lobes stopped rolling and wore flat BUT,, the other cam lobes displayed surface failure and transfer of the surface to the lifter roller. It looked like the surface hardness flaked off the cam lobe. Ive also seen some other cam manufactures cams fail for the same reason.

Hope your filter stopped the crap from getting to the rest of the engine.

Bill C

RACER7088

I am only speaking from real experience but we see failed GM OEM lifters almost everyday. The main mode of failure from beating on the valve train with the OEM lifters seems to be the axles coming out and eating into the lifter bores in the block.

We've built over 1500 LSx style engines now and still never seen any "bad cams" eat lifters. Not once so far not even once at least in this shop. Of course other things can happen and eat lifters but we haven't had any Comp Cams stuff "go bad" so far ever.

I will say that I don't normally blame the OEM lifters but rather springs dying or something letting the valve train go out of control and beat up the lifters or an oil failure etc.

Saying that when the same happens to a much better and stronger lifter like the Morel it doesn't lose the axle and also the wheels don't crack and fall off as easily. In fact so far I have never seen a wheel fall off a Morel although anything can happen.

When everything is under control the OEM lifters do seem to last a long time but when higher rpms and higher spring pressures and occasional over revs etc. happen the Morels are much more robust featuring better materials and a stronger larger axle and corresponding .750 wheel instead of the OEM .700 wheel.

I use a crap load of LS7 lifters as well on normal stuff and never have any issues but on the crazy stuff we do usually use Morels and it has been a wise choice on some of these continuous high rpm drift engines and road race deals etc.

vettenuts

The question I would ask is the lifter the cause or the effect?

I would check two things. First, get the other lobes on the cam checked for hardness or simply drag a file across a lobe and see if it removes any material. Second, check your valve springs. Patriots do no keep their original stiffness for very long and you may find the springs are way out of spec. Once you have all the information you can decide on replacement parts.

CTD

Now I have to jump back in.

I also have CRL's in my motor.

I had to purchase 3 boxes of them in order to get a complete set. One of the supplier's I purchased from said to me that the problem I had was suppose to have been corrected.

Then I searched & seen the failures, that does not say that there are not problems with other lifters. I felt then that the volume of CRL sold maybe higher than the rest so based on percentages the failures may get more media attention. Maybe not.

Being the way I am I actually kept one of the boxes with a defective lifter, I still have it.

I often wonder about the failures, I was fortunate, not smart enough, to catch the defect before the lifter was installed. What about the people whom installed the lifters with catastrophic failures after, were there was not enough evidence left to indicate a lifter failure.

I probably will not use them again & be happy to pay the additional cost.

In the end it is the game we choose to play when we leave the world of stock.....very depressing at times!

ragtopC5

Got everything apart today. Looks like the filter caught everything and no bearings destroyed. The lifter bore also looks fine.

Vettenuts great idea, I was planning on testing the hardness of the cam but I will have the springs checked as well. Now that the cam is out of the car I can definitely see surface damage on all the cam lobes, especially the opening ramps. The rollers on the good lifters however all look fine. I'm guessing it's a cam hardness problem.

printmanjackson

is there something that could be causing damage to the camshaft surface during the first start up?

ragtopC5

quick update, I'm having the cam hardness tested later this week but just for grins I ran a file over one of the lobes. Easily put a scratch in it without pressing very hard.

Eric D

RagtopC5,

This is what an improperly hardened cam lobe will look like. It will cause the lifter roller to fail and the lifter is normally the first item to let you know you have a real problem, much like what happened in your case.



Hope the rest of the repairs go smoothly for you.