Tips on Shocks/Sways/Lowering the C5
05-09-2010, 01:33 PM
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St. Jude Donor '10
Tips on Shocks/Sways/Lowering the C5
Pros, Racers etc. won't get much out of this. Neither will anyone running Coilovers.
Those of you that have or are contemplating lowering beyond stock bolts (including cutting the front bushings, removing the front bolt, swapping the rear bolts for aftermarket) might find some of this interesting.
Below you will see basic lowering info with pictures that will tell and show you some things that I haven't come across on this or any other forum. I will show you a better way to get more adjustment out of the rear and what happens if you go too far. You will also see how easy it is to adjust and then re-adjust the fronts and rears, if you've never done it.
When finding info on lowering the C5, common things like Zip bolts (front bolts with no bushing) and 7" long rear bolts, is readily available. What they don't tell you is some of the things I found out the hard way, like..............
Myth: car will handle better being lowered.
Truth: Lowering the car beyond what the stock bolts were intended without using high end adjustable shocks (if there is such a thing, and I don't mean adjusting the rigidity, I mean length of a shock) and/or Coilovers, will not ride or handle highway bumps in the road like it should, and therefore, not 'handle' better. It may not handle better even with expensive Coilovers, as most of the racers on this site will tell you. Things beyond my rookie comprehension, like 'bumpsteer' 'unsprung weight' etc. come into play. Most of the racers will tell you that the C5 works it's best closer to stock height, maybe a small drop, stock bolts only.
Myth: 'Brand X' Shocks are made for lowered cars because they are shorter
Truth: C6Z06 shocks, Bilstein Sports, Even Koni KSDs and QA1's (adjustable) are going to bottom out (again, I'm talking LOWERED!) The 'adjustables' are NOT height adjustable or 'length of travel' adjustable. You'll only get that on a Coilover set up or Custom Shocks. If someone knows of a shorter shock for the Vette, I would be interested. I couldn’t find it.
I measured four C5s at a show last week, all at stock height, plus mine. I'm using the fender line as a tool. Those that say 'don't use the fender', it really doesn't matter, even if the fender has been replaced and is not lined up perfectly, has nothing to do with the Before and After measurements I'm using- 1.5" is 1.5". For checking if both sides of your car are the same, check the height at the puck locations, then the fenders. If both puck locations are the same and both fenders are the same, you can continue to use the fenders. After all, we're lowering for a look. With that said..
Front stock is 27.5"
Rear stock is 29"
I lowered mine initially to 25.5 front and 26.5 rear by removing front bolts and using 7" rear aftermarket bolts. After a terrible drive (teeth rattler), I immediatly raised it to 26.25 front/ 27.5" rear (1.25 front drop, 1.5 rear).
Pics of my initial drop using stock shocks;
Not a bad cruise with 2 in the car, 180 mile round trip, but it happened to be a cruise on roads that were newer, repaved etc. and did not feel horrible. Until..........
We went on another cruise 180 miles the other direction, taking different freeways that have not been repaved, and are typical rut/crack filled freeways with ridges that make a Cadillac bounce.
That's when I realized it's time to bring it up to 1.5" total drop front and back, get some new shocks (Bilstein Sports), C6Z51 sways and metal endlinks (for cornering).
After another cruise, I started digging in, as I was not satisfied with the hard knocks I was still getting. Small ruts at low speeds would rattle the body parts in the back of the car. Seems the rear is more susceptible to this than the front.
This is not intended to knock the Bilstein Sport shock, but is intended to clarify a myth that is out there that the Bilstein Sport shock is shorter or has a longer travel (1" is a commonly used dimension) than stock shocks and is "made" for lowered Vettes.
It is 'valved' better than a stock shock and with 'MILD' lowering (stock bolts with no extreme mods) , will work great.
#1- Bilstein Sports are the same size and have the same travel as a stock shock (stock shock travel not shown, you'll have to take my word, it's the same).
#2-with 1.5" drop, I was bottoming out on the bumpstop. I thought I could get more travel out of the shock if I could shorten the bumpstop. I checked where the shock would bottom out and realized I could put a smaller stop in, not damage the shock, and get a much smoother ride.
Remember the amount of travel on the Bilstein when it was unmounted? 3-1/4" before hitting the stops, 4-3/4" to hitting the dust cover washer (which was also max on the shock). I compressed the shock fully and it maxed just at the Large Washer line.
Figured I could get some more out of this shock.
I didn't feel any crash (teeth jarring) during my test cruise, even though the shock still used all of it's NEW travel. Actually, there was a hair less than 1/8" space between my new bumpstop and the washer above, so I feel it's pretty good now.
LOWERING THE REAR:
Myth: “aftermarket (7”) bolts are needed to lower beyond the stock bolts” and “you need to leave 3 or 4 threads showing on stock or aftermarket bolts”
Truth: You can get more out of your stock bolts if you want to. Besides being able to loosen the bolt, widening the gap between A-arm and Spring (which lowers the car), there is a 3-ribbed bushing on the top and bottom of the bolts. If you cut one of the 3 ribs on both bushings (never cut the one that goes into the A arm or spring-it’s obvious when you see it), you can get another ½” of lowering out of your stock bolts.
The 7” bolts make you miss some critical adjustments. You will be jumping from the maximum lowering you can get out of the stock bolts to a 2” drop. Using 6” bolts allows you to graduate from the Stock Bolt Maximum to just below maximum, and then getting up to 1.5” drop if you max the 6” bolt out. You can also cut the bushings as mentioned earlier, and get it back if you find it’s too low, using the 6” bolt. It’s all simple math.
Myth: you can always raise your car by just re-tightening the bolts
Truth: Not if they are too long (typical 7” is too long for stock shocks as we learned above). Carriage bolts, which is what is used in this application, are not all-threaded bolts, you run out of threads.
After you set your bolts, with the threads even on both sides, drop the car and go for a spin, the suspension will settle. It’s NOT abnormal for one side to need more threads shown than the other to get it the same on both sides. If you take your car in to get aligned and corner balanced, they may set your car slightly off height from one side to another. But, from a ‘looks’ category, you will be climbing under there a few times. You will find that ¼” of thread difference can raise or lower the car MUCH more than the ¼”. Plan on ONE thread equals 3/16” change in height. I tightened my bolts down ¼” and the car came up 5/8”.
LOWERING THE FRONT END:
Most people (including myself until I did it) do not understand the concept of what they are after- this mysterious ‘bolt’ in the front. It’s quite different, as you will see. I’ve seen many threads that say “I STRIPPED MY FRONT BOLTS” or “THEY WON’T MOVE”.
It’s simple. You HAVE to get the pressure off the underside of the bolt. It has a rubber bushing on it that makes it stick, plus the pressure from the spring makes it very hard to move, along with being set in there for years, rust, grime etc. My rubber bushing was smashed when I removed my front bolts. I’m not showing how to remove the front bolts, it’s quite a process that can be found here in much more detail. This is for adjusting. You can cut the front rubber bushing with it on the car.
Once you have the pressure off, I can turn mine by hand, even though one of the pictures shows a wrench. You may need a wrench the first time as things might be a little rusty. Spray some lube in there, wait a few minutes, then go at it. ALWAYS USE a 6 POINT BOX wrench, not a 12 point, to minimize rounding the head.
Again, ¼” of bolt height does NOT equate to ¼” of ride adjustment. Similar to the rear, drop it 2 threads will get you a bit more than ¼” change.
SWAY BARS:
Swapping to C6 Sway Bars-Although a MONSTER improvement on corners. , even over C5Z51 and C5Z06 bars, as they are larger, might be an issue. It’s been advised by others that it’s best to go with C6Z51 unless you are running a wider (12” & up) tire (vs C6Z06).
Another member posted this issue a couple months ago. The C6 bars are sold as fitting on the C5, but there may be a slight problem. I can’t tell you if the rear carriage has changed and therefore, this might not be for all years. The original poster has an 02’ couple, mine is a 98’ coupe. The problem is that the additional thickness of the new sway, whether is be C6Z51 or C6Z06, is that the Sway Bar now touches the Rear Aluminum Cradle. Under use, the sway may not rotate like it’s supposed to. I made some spacers out of plate straps bought at Home Depot. They are 6” long, 1/8” thick. Some people just used washers, but then there is nothing behind the Sway Bar Bushing (Insulator), so the Sway Bar could still push the bushing back into the Cradle.
It’s a simple mod, place the 6” plate strap up to the area, mark hole centers, drill 9/16’ holes (best to use drill press and step-bit), and also mark the length difference and cut it.
This is the STOCK bar, before changing to the C6Z51.
The Bracket and after install:
REAR SHOCKS:
Here’s a couple quick shots of the Rear Shock mounts, so you can see what you’re after. You’ve already seen the picture with the upper mounting bracket still on the shock.
REAR LIFTING:
Here’s a lift I made for the Rear end- just makes setting up a little quicker. 2” Gate posts in the wrought iron fence dept. at Home Depot. Some cuts, some bolts and some spacers inside the bolts (I used ½” copper, cut as spacers for strength).
I hope this helps......
Those of you that have or are contemplating lowering beyond stock bolts (including cutting the front bushings, removing the front bolt, swapping the rear bolts for aftermarket) might find some of this interesting.
Below you will see basic lowering info with pictures that will tell and show you some things that I haven't come across on this or any other forum. I will show you a better way to get more adjustment out of the rear and what happens if you go too far. You will also see how easy it is to adjust and then re-adjust the fronts and rears, if you've never done it.
When finding info on lowering the C5, common things like Zip bolts (front bolts with no bushing) and 7" long rear bolts, is readily available. What they don't tell you is some of the things I found out the hard way, like..............
Myth: car will handle better being lowered.
Truth: Lowering the car beyond what the stock bolts were intended without using high end adjustable shocks (if there is such a thing, and I don't mean adjusting the rigidity, I mean length of a shock) and/or Coilovers, will not ride or handle highway bumps in the road like it should, and therefore, not 'handle' better. It may not handle better even with expensive Coilovers, as most of the racers on this site will tell you. Things beyond my rookie comprehension, like 'bumpsteer' 'unsprung weight' etc. come into play. Most of the racers will tell you that the C5 works it's best closer to stock height, maybe a small drop, stock bolts only.
Myth: 'Brand X' Shocks are made for lowered cars because they are shorter
Truth: C6Z06 shocks, Bilstein Sports, Even Koni KSDs and QA1's (adjustable) are going to bottom out (again, I'm talking LOWERED!) The 'adjustables' are NOT height adjustable or 'length of travel' adjustable. You'll only get that on a Coilover set up or Custom Shocks. If someone knows of a shorter shock for the Vette, I would be interested. I couldn’t find it.
I measured four C5s at a show last week, all at stock height, plus mine. I'm using the fender line as a tool. Those that say 'don't use the fender', it really doesn't matter, even if the fender has been replaced and is not lined up perfectly, has nothing to do with the Before and After measurements I'm using- 1.5" is 1.5". For checking if both sides of your car are the same, check the height at the puck locations, then the fenders. If both puck locations are the same and both fenders are the same, you can continue to use the fenders. After all, we're lowering for a look. With that said..
Front stock is 27.5"
Rear stock is 29"
I lowered mine initially to 25.5 front and 26.5 rear by removing front bolts and using 7" rear aftermarket bolts. After a terrible drive (teeth rattler), I immediatly raised it to 26.25 front/ 27.5" rear (1.25 front drop, 1.5 rear).
Pics of my initial drop using stock shocks;
Not a bad cruise with 2 in the car, 180 mile round trip, but it happened to be a cruise on roads that were newer, repaved etc. and did not feel horrible. Until..........
We went on another cruise 180 miles the other direction, taking different freeways that have not been repaved, and are typical rut/crack filled freeways with ridges that make a Cadillac bounce.
That's when I realized it's time to bring it up to 1.5" total drop front and back, get some new shocks (Bilstein Sports), C6Z51 sways and metal endlinks (for cornering).
After another cruise, I started digging in, as I was not satisfied with the hard knocks I was still getting. Small ruts at low speeds would rattle the body parts in the back of the car. Seems the rear is more susceptible to this than the front.
This is not intended to knock the Bilstein Sport shock, but is intended to clarify a myth that is out there that the Bilstein Sport shock is shorter or has a longer travel (1" is a commonly used dimension) than stock shocks and is "made" for lowered Vettes.
It is 'valved' better than a stock shock and with 'MILD' lowering (stock bolts with no extreme mods) , will work great.
#1- Bilstein Sports are the same size and have the same travel as a stock shock (stock shock travel not shown, you'll have to take my word, it's the same).
#2-with 1.5" drop, I was bottoming out on the bumpstop. I thought I could get more travel out of the shock if I could shorten the bumpstop. I checked where the shock would bottom out and realized I could put a smaller stop in, not damage the shock, and get a much smoother ride.
Remember the amount of travel on the Bilstein when it was unmounted? 3-1/4" before hitting the stops, 4-3/4" to hitting the dust cover washer (which was also max on the shock). I compressed the shock fully and it maxed just at the Large Washer line.
Figured I could get some more out of this shock.
I didn't feel any crash (teeth jarring) during my test cruise, even though the shock still used all of it's NEW travel. Actually, there was a hair less than 1/8" space between my new bumpstop and the washer above, so I feel it's pretty good now.
LOWERING THE REAR:
Myth: “aftermarket (7”) bolts are needed to lower beyond the stock bolts” and “you need to leave 3 or 4 threads showing on stock or aftermarket bolts”
Truth: You can get more out of your stock bolts if you want to. Besides being able to loosen the bolt, widening the gap between A-arm and Spring (which lowers the car), there is a 3-ribbed bushing on the top and bottom of the bolts. If you cut one of the 3 ribs on both bushings (never cut the one that goes into the A arm or spring-it’s obvious when you see it), you can get another ½” of lowering out of your stock bolts.
The 7” bolts make you miss some critical adjustments. You will be jumping from the maximum lowering you can get out of the stock bolts to a 2” drop. Using 6” bolts allows you to graduate from the Stock Bolt Maximum to just below maximum, and then getting up to 1.5” drop if you max the 6” bolt out. You can also cut the bushings as mentioned earlier, and get it back if you find it’s too low, using the 6” bolt. It’s all simple math.
Myth: you can always raise your car by just re-tightening the bolts
Truth: Not if they are too long (typical 7” is too long for stock shocks as we learned above). Carriage bolts, which is what is used in this application, are not all-threaded bolts, you run out of threads.
After you set your bolts, with the threads even on both sides, drop the car and go for a spin, the suspension will settle. It’s NOT abnormal for one side to need more threads shown than the other to get it the same on both sides. If you take your car in to get aligned and corner balanced, they may set your car slightly off height from one side to another. But, from a ‘looks’ category, you will be climbing under there a few times. You will find that ¼” of thread difference can raise or lower the car MUCH more than the ¼”. Plan on ONE thread equals 3/16” change in height. I tightened my bolts down ¼” and the car came up 5/8”.
LOWERING THE FRONT END:
Most people (including myself until I did it) do not understand the concept of what they are after- this mysterious ‘bolt’ in the front. It’s quite different, as you will see. I’ve seen many threads that say “I STRIPPED MY FRONT BOLTS” or “THEY WON’T MOVE”.
It’s simple. You HAVE to get the pressure off the underside of the bolt. It has a rubber bushing on it that makes it stick, plus the pressure from the spring makes it very hard to move, along with being set in there for years, rust, grime etc. My rubber bushing was smashed when I removed my front bolts. I’m not showing how to remove the front bolts, it’s quite a process that can be found here in much more detail. This is for adjusting. You can cut the front rubber bushing with it on the car.
Once you have the pressure off, I can turn mine by hand, even though one of the pictures shows a wrench. You may need a wrench the first time as things might be a little rusty. Spray some lube in there, wait a few minutes, then go at it. ALWAYS USE a 6 POINT BOX wrench, not a 12 point, to minimize rounding the head.
Again, ¼” of bolt height does NOT equate to ¼” of ride adjustment. Similar to the rear, drop it 2 threads will get you a bit more than ¼” change.
SWAY BARS:
Swapping to C6 Sway Bars-Although a MONSTER improvement on corners. , even over C5Z51 and C5Z06 bars, as they are larger, might be an issue. It’s been advised by others that it’s best to go with C6Z51 unless you are running a wider (12” & up) tire (vs C6Z06).
Another member posted this issue a couple months ago. The C6 bars are sold as fitting on the C5, but there may be a slight problem. I can’t tell you if the rear carriage has changed and therefore, this might not be for all years. The original poster has an 02’ couple, mine is a 98’ coupe. The problem is that the additional thickness of the new sway, whether is be C6Z51 or C6Z06, is that the Sway Bar now touches the Rear Aluminum Cradle. Under use, the sway may not rotate like it’s supposed to. I made some spacers out of plate straps bought at Home Depot. They are 6” long, 1/8” thick. Some people just used washers, but then there is nothing behind the Sway Bar Bushing (Insulator), so the Sway Bar could still push the bushing back into the Cradle.
It’s a simple mod, place the 6” plate strap up to the area, mark hole centers, drill 9/16’ holes (best to use drill press and step-bit), and also mark the length difference and cut it.
This is the STOCK bar, before changing to the C6Z51.
The Bracket and after install:
REAR SHOCKS:
Here’s a couple quick shots of the Rear Shock mounts, so you can see what you’re after. You’ve already seen the picture with the upper mounting bracket still on the shock.
REAR LIFTING:
Here’s a lift I made for the Rear end- just makes setting up a little quicker. 2” Gate posts in the wrought iron fence dept. at Home Depot. Some cuts, some bolts and some spacers inside the bolts (I used ½” copper, cut as spacers for strength).
I hope this helps......
The following users liked this post:
C5inWV (06-25-2016)
05-09-2010, 07:16 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
Nice work.
How many miles have you driven since cutting the bumps on the shocks? Do you think it's worth it? I have the C6 Z06 shocks and wonder if I should do the same to get me a bit more travel?????
How many miles have you driven since cutting the bumps on the shocks? Do you think it's worth it? I have the C6 Z06 shocks and wonder if I should do the same to get me a bit more travel?????
05-09-2010, 08:43 PM
#4
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St. Jude Donor '10
Just did it, so not many. But I took it on a nice 80 mile cruise on a bad freeway and a twisty canyon run with a passenger (wife). She said the car rides much better, and I was really able to crank on the hair pins in Carbon Canyon with the C6Z sway bar. I feel like I have some shocks again.
05-09-2010, 08:50 PM
#5
Team Owner
Interesting stuff...I'm all the way down on stock bolts, so only about 3/4" drop. I'll be doing the Bilsteins soon, so I'm on the fence if I need to trim anything for more travel. The bilstein bushings look like an hourglass...if anything, I'd just cut them down the middle and remove half.
05-09-2010, 09:16 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
05-09-2010, 10:42 PM
#7
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St. Jude Donor '10
Interesting stuff...I'm all the way down on stock bolts, so only about 3/4" drop. I'll be doing the Bilsteins soon, so I'm on the fence if I need to trim anything for more travel. The bilstein bushings look like an hourglass...if anything, I'd just cut them down the middle and remove half.
05-10-2010, 10:38 AM
#10
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Lowered mine with C6 bolts, replaced stock shocks with QA1's set to number 4 of 12 . I may actually go slightly higher, around 1/2 inch.
Rear 27"
Front 26 1/2
Good ride for me
Rear 27"
Front 26 1/2
Good ride for me
05-10-2010, 12:20 PM
#12
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St. Jude Donor '10
These were some bushings left over from a Jeep project (body lift) or? I forget. They happen to fit perfect. If I didn't have them, I would just cut the existing stops to 1/2" from the original 1-1/2". I had to put the disclaimer in above, just so people know that the stop is a designed product, but I'm confident I won't damage the shock with the 1/2".
Last edited by socalman; 10-12-2010 at 08:58 PM.
05-10-2010, 03:17 PM
#14
Melting Slicks
It amazes me that with these cars lowered, we can even get any travel without the tires hitting the wells. I had mine slammed with no front bolts and Zip bolts in the rear. I have 245/35R19's up front and 305/30R20's in the rear. I would check the wells and tires for rubbing marks after just about every drive. Nothing?????
I have yet to look at my C6 Z06 shocks as they are on the car, but I did look at the stock C5 Z51 shocks that came on my C5. They have stops that are 1 1/16". That was the front shocks. Didn't pull apart the rear to see their stops.
My question would be if the piston will even compress into the shock body the extra distance that the bushings have been cut????? After you swapped bushings on the Bilsteins, did you compress it down to the new stop to see if it will hit the stop or bottom out in the chamber?
I have yet to look at my C6 Z06 shocks as they are on the car, but I did look at the stock C5 Z51 shocks that came on my C5. They have stops that are 1 1/16". That was the front shocks. Didn't pull apart the rear to see their stops.
My question would be if the piston will even compress into the shock body the extra distance that the bushings have been cut????? After you swapped bushings on the Bilsteins, did you compress it down to the new stop to see if it will hit the stop or bottom out in the chamber?
05-10-2010, 03:38 PM
#15
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St. Jude Donor '10
It amazes me that with these cars lowered, we can even get any travel without the tires hitting the wells. I had mine slammed with no front bolts and Zip bolts in the rear. I have 245/35R19's up front and 305/30R20's in the rear. I would check the wells and tires for rubbing marks after just about every drive. Nothing?????
I have yet to look at my C6 Z06 shocks as they are on the car, but I did look at the stock C5 Z51 shocks that came on my C5. They have stops that are 1 1/16". That was the front shocks. Didn't pull apart the rear to see their stops.
My question would be if the piston will even compress into the shock body the extra distance that the bushings have been cut????? After you swapped bushings on the Bilsteins, did you compress it down to the new stop to see if it will hit the stop or bottom out in the chamber?
I have yet to look at my C6 Z06 shocks as they are on the car, but I did look at the stock C5 Z51 shocks that came on my C5. They have stops that are 1 1/16". That was the front shocks. Didn't pull apart the rear to see their stops.
My question would be if the piston will even compress into the shock body the extra distance that the bushings have been cut????? After you swapped bushings on the Bilsteins, did you compress it down to the new stop to see if it will hit the stop or bottom out in the chamber?
With the car at stock height, the car would sit in the center of the travel, as they are supposed to. But center of 3-1/4" isn't much, 1-5/8", so when we drop our cars even 1", you've got a hair over 1/2" of travel before you hit the stop.
If you drop 1.5", you're on the stop, basically have no shock! The people that tell me they're lowered 1.5", 2" with X brand shocks and it feels fine, are either in denial, live in Highway Nirvana, don't travel with a passenger, or don't care.
Was kinda my point of all this, nobody makes a shock designed for lowering a C5, or advertise anything shorter as such. yet the car has had the capability for 13 years.
Last edited by socalman; 05-10-2010 at 03:41 PM.
05-11-2010, 01:55 AM
#16
Team Owner
C6Z06 shocks, Bilstein Sports, Even Koni KSDs and QA1's (adjustable) are going to bottom out (again, I'm talking LOWERED!) The 'adjustables' are NOT height adjustable or 'length of travel' adjustable. You'll only get that on a Coilover set up or Custom Shocks. If someone knows of a shorter shock for the Vette, I would be interested. I couldn’t find it.
http://www.westcoastcorvette.com/p-1...stable-c5.aspx
05-11-2010, 09:47 AM
#17
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St. Jude Donor '10
FYI...the inverted adjustable Pfadts are shorter bodied shocks, but they cost double that of the bilsteins. Seriously considering these...but I may just go "all-in" with coilovers and be done with it.
http://www.westcoastcorvette.com/p-1...stable-c5.aspx
http://www.westcoastcorvette.com/p-1...stable-c5.aspx
I don't know why, but run a search on pfadt shocks in all of C5/C6 sections- all you get back is a bunch for sale instead of how great they are, and nothing on how great they are for a lowered car.
05-11-2010, 10:01 PM
#19
Melting Slicks
05-11-2010, 10:14 PM
#20
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My question would be if the piston will even compress into the shock body the extra distance that the bushings have been cut????? After you swapped bushings on the Bilsteins, did you compress it down to the new stop to see if it will hit the stop or bottom out in the chamber?
The C6Z06 shocks will compress until they would hit steel on steel without bottoming. The small metal clip that holds the boot/bushing cup on the top of the shock will end up actually going down into the top of the shock slightly before it bottoms.
Peter
