Service Steering Column Lock/Wait 10 after recall, how completely disable?
02-18-2008, 07:41 PM
#1
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Service Steering Column Lock/Wait 10 after recall, how completely disable?
I have a 2002 Coupe with manual trans. I had the recall column lock recall done a few years ago, but then just a few months ago I had the column lock where it would not unlock. I took it into the dealer and they "re-did" the recall so that now the wheel does not ever lock.
Today, I go to start the car and I get "Service Column Lock" and "Remove key and wait 10 seconds" I tried that and then tried driving, but the engine dies right away (fuel cutoff over 2 mph). My battery seems to have plenty of power. I tried the on-off-on-off trick with the key from this post, but it did not help. I've tried removing fuse 23 and 25 for about 10 minutes and then putting them back and restarting, but that did not help either.
I've read through all of the main thread on this, and learned a lot, but I am still uncertain what I should do. From reading the thread, I think I should do this:
However I am not sure exactly what to do here. Does anyone have a bit more detail on this? The BCM is the big silver thing on the left below, correct? Where will I find the recall mod relay and what wires will I jump?
Today, I go to start the car and I get "Service Column Lock" and "Remove key and wait 10 seconds" I tried that and then tried driving, but the engine dies right away (fuel cutoff over 2 mph). My battery seems to have plenty of power. I tried the on-off-on-off trick with the key from this post, but it did not help. I've tried removing fuse 23 and 25 for about 10 minutes and then putting them back and restarting, but that did not help either.
I've read through all of the main thread on this, and learned a lot, but I am still uncertain what I should do. From reading the thread, I think I should do this:
Q For MN6/M12 cars what can I do if this situation occurs?
A Go into your passenger footwell. Remove your BCM and locate the recall mod relay, remove it and add a jumper wire between the white wire (pin 30) and the orange wire (pin 87). Note that there are two orange wires, so make sure you get the right one!
A Go into your passenger footwell. Remove your BCM and locate the recall mod relay, remove it and add a jumper wire between the white wire (pin 30) and the orange wire (pin 87). Note that there are two orange wires, so make sure you get the right one!
Last edited by John Galt; 02-18-2008 at 10:21 PM. Reason: picture edit, typos, more detail
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02-18-2008, 08:31 PM
#2
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I've pulled my BCM out a bit, but I have not identified the relay I am supposed to disconnect. Any help?
Last edited by John Galt; 02-18-2008 at 10:13 PM.
02-19-2008, 10:27 AM
#4
Burning Brakes
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Have you cleared the codes through the DIC? I believe this is an important step to do first.
I have never (thank God) had to deal with this issue, but in reading through all the confusing articles I read that first you must clear the codes.
Below is something I saved into my computer for future reference. (Copied from the Internet)
Hope it helps
Reset Fuel Cutoff Issue
Symptom - Pull Key wait 10 seconds and/or Fuel Cuts off after 2 seconds when trying to move the car.
1) Turn on the ignition but don't start the engine.
2) Press the "RESET" button to turn off any warning messages
3) Press and hold "OPTIONS"
4) While holding "OPTIONS", press "FUEL" four times within a 10-second period.
Initially, on-board diagnostics go into an "Automatic Mode" which shows diagnostic codes in a pre-set sequence: PCM - TCS - RTD - BCM - IPC - RADIO - HVAC - LDCM - RDCM - SCM - RFA. All codes will be displayed for each module. If none are present in a given module, you will see "No More Codes" on the display.
To exit the diagnostic mode at any time, press "E/M". If you want to erase codes in a given module, press "RESET".
To reset the codes once in manual mode, press and hold "RESET" until it displays "NO CODES". Press "OPTIONS" to go to the next module. Repeat the steps until you have reset the codes in all the computer modules.
Key back off, remove fuse #25 and wait 10 minutes before re-installing it.
Install the fuse, bring key back to On and all messages should be cleared as well as the fuel cut-off. If you still have problems repeat the above except this time remove fuses #25 and #29 for 10 minutes. Repeat again and it should be good to go.
I have never (thank God) had to deal with this issue, but in reading through all the confusing articles I read that first you must clear the codes.
Below is something I saved into my computer for future reference. (Copied from the Internet)
Hope it helps
Reset Fuel Cutoff Issue
Symptom - Pull Key wait 10 seconds and/or Fuel Cuts off after 2 seconds when trying to move the car.
1) Turn on the ignition but don't start the engine.
2) Press the "RESET" button to turn off any warning messages
3) Press and hold "OPTIONS"
4) While holding "OPTIONS", press "FUEL" four times within a 10-second period.
Initially, on-board diagnostics go into an "Automatic Mode" which shows diagnostic codes in a pre-set sequence: PCM - TCS - RTD - BCM - IPC - RADIO - HVAC - LDCM - RDCM - SCM - RFA. All codes will be displayed for each module. If none are present in a given module, you will see "No More Codes" on the display.
To exit the diagnostic mode at any time, press "E/M". If you want to erase codes in a given module, press "RESET".
To reset the codes once in manual mode, press and hold "RESET" until it displays "NO CODES". Press "OPTIONS" to go to the next module. Repeat the steps until you have reset the codes in all the computer modules.
Key back off, remove fuse #25 and wait 10 minutes before re-installing it.
Install the fuse, bring key back to On and all messages should be cleared as well as the fuel cut-off. If you still have problems repeat the above except this time remove fuses #25 and #29 for 10 minutes. Repeat again and it should be good to go.
02-19-2008, 10:38 AM
#5
Intermediate
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Steering Lock
If you have had the recall done at the dealership, my bet to your problem is the K harness they installed is failing. If that is the case you have two options:
1. Install a new k harness ~ $200 bucks from dealer
2. Install a CLB from someone like Corvettes of Houston ~ $50 bucks
Once I installed the CLB I have not had an issue.
Good Luck
1. Install a new k harness ~ $200 bucks from dealer
2. Install a CLB from someone like Corvettes of Houston ~ $50 bucks
Once I installed the CLB I have not had an issue.
Good Luck
02-19-2008, 12:02 PM
#6
Safety Car
Thread Starter
...reset the codes once in manual mode, press and hold "RESET" until it displays "NO CODES". Press "OPTIONS" to go to the next module. Repeat the steps until you have reset the codes in all the computer modules.
Key back off, remove fuse #25 and wait 10 minutes before re-installing it.
Install the fuse, bring key back to On and all messages should be cleared as well as the fuel cut-off. If you still have problems repeat the above except this time remove fuses #25 and #29 for 10 minutes. Repeat again and it should be good to go.
Key back off, remove fuse #25 and wait 10 minutes before re-installing it.
Install the fuse, bring key back to On and all messages should be cleared as well as the fuel cut-off. If you still have problems repeat the above except this time remove fuses #25 and #29 for 10 minutes. Repeat again and it should be good to go.
02-19-2008, 12:39 PM
#7
Burning Brakes
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No other ideas.
Consider this a "To The Top" for you if not helpful.
I remember reading a while back that in one of the "three" manual car recalls, the dealer "added" the relay to which you are referring.
I would think that the added relay would be outside the BCM.
Just thinking of a dealer adding something to the BCM circuit board gives me the hebe-jeebees. That relay has to plug into something.
Consider this a "To The Top" for you if not helpful.
I remember reading a while back that in one of the "three" manual car recalls, the dealer "added" the relay to which you are referring.
I would think that the added relay would be outside the BCM.
Just thinking of a dealer adding something to the BCM circuit board gives me the hebe-jeebees. That relay has to plug into something.
02-19-2008, 03:27 PM
#8
Le Mans Master
If you have had the recall done at the dealership, my bet to your problem is the K harness they installed is failing. If that is the case you have two options:
1. Install a new k harness ~ $200 bucks from dealer
2. Install a CLB from someone like Corvettes of Houston ~ $50 bucks
Once I installed the CLB I have not had an issue.
Good Luck
1. Install a new k harness ~ $200 bucks from dealer
2. Install a CLB from someone like Corvettes of Houston ~ $50 bucks
Once I installed the CLB I have not had an issue.
Good Luck
These are probably your choices. At least one dealer has said that recalls are only warrented for one year. AND GM will only do the recall (one time) free untill the end of Feb or March (forget which one).People have repeatedly been told to install an aftermarket CLB. I did and it works fine. You should be able to remove the k harness and install a CLB.
Last edited by Oldvetter; 02-19-2008 at 03:34 PM.
02-19-2008, 07:27 PM
#9
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I'm still interested in learning more about this option:
4)MN6/M12 cars only - go into your passenger footwell, locate the relay added by the recall mod, remove the relay altogether and bypass the circuit...
02-19-2008, 08:39 PM
#10
Le Mans Master
John,
I went through exactly the same thing you did, including both recalls where the lock plate was finally removed. Unfortunately a few months later I ended up in the same situation you now find yourself in. Fortunately I was in the driveway and could get it into the garage until I figured out what to do.
As you probably know the recalls did not remove the column lock actuator/motor. This is because the BCM is looking for a signal from the actuator/motor telling it that the column is unlocked. Even after the recalls, the BCM is still looking for this signal. It is however, possible for the column lock actuator/motor to operate and still not send the signal to the BCM.
Using a Tech II, a friend, who is also a GM certified technician, was able to determine that the column lock in my car was in-fact unlocked (the Tech II allows you to operate the actuator/motor independent of the ignition system), and yet it was still telling the BCM that it was locked. There is a micro-switch in the actuator/motor that is activated to send the required signal. If it malfunctions the lock can work, but still not send a signal. My lock was functioning, but the micro-switch was not.
The GM service department solution to this problem is to replace the column lock motor... which is not inexpensive, and may or may not be covered under a warranty. Unfortunately this does not ultimately solve the problem, at least for long, because you are still dependent upon a non-functional component (the column lock actuator/motor) operating correctly to get the signal to the BCM.
What the CLB does for you and why so many recommend it, is it unlocks the column lock, and then disconnects it from the circuit. In its' place it uses circuitry to send the appropriate signal to the BCM, at the appropriate time, once the key is activated. Timing of the signal is critical, otherwise you could simply flip a switch to send the signal telling the BCM everything was in order.
My friend removed the cover assembly and was able to tap on the column lock actuator/motor and get the micro-switch to send the unlocked signal to the BCM. He then installed the CLB (from Corvettes of Houston) and I have not had any problems since...
Keep in mind, that to install a CLB, the column lock actuator/motor must "unlock" and send the unlocked signal to the BCM or it will do you no good to install a CLB. I would try first to install a fully charged battery before anything else. It's not enough that the lock is functioning (I could hear mine operating clearly), it must also activate the micro-switch and send the required signal.
I apologize for being so long winded and hope this is of some help and you have a clearer picture of how everything is supposed to function. I learned more about the column lock system in 30 minutes with my friend, than I had talking to the best Corvette technician my dealer has for more than an hour during each of two visits, while they performed the recalls. Incidentally, while the PCM is looking for a signal, it appears that it is getting it via the BCM, which is where my friend was reading the unlocked/locked signal.
Someone has said that there is now an additional GM recall where they will remove the fuel cut-off feature after having removed the lock plate. I have heard nothing about this except that it was mentioned here on the FORUM recently.
Good luck... GUSTO
I went through exactly the same thing you did, including both recalls where the lock plate was finally removed. Unfortunately a few months later I ended up in the same situation you now find yourself in. Fortunately I was in the driveway and could get it into the garage until I figured out what to do.
As you probably know the recalls did not remove the column lock actuator/motor. This is because the BCM is looking for a signal from the actuator/motor telling it that the column is unlocked. Even after the recalls, the BCM is still looking for this signal. It is however, possible for the column lock actuator/motor to operate and still not send the signal to the BCM.
Using a Tech II, a friend, who is also a GM certified technician, was able to determine that the column lock in my car was in-fact unlocked (the Tech II allows you to operate the actuator/motor independent of the ignition system), and yet it was still telling the BCM that it was locked. There is a micro-switch in the actuator/motor that is activated to send the required signal. If it malfunctions the lock can work, but still not send a signal. My lock was functioning, but the micro-switch was not.
The GM service department solution to this problem is to replace the column lock motor... which is not inexpensive, and may or may not be covered under a warranty. Unfortunately this does not ultimately solve the problem, at least for long, because you are still dependent upon a non-functional component (the column lock actuator/motor) operating correctly to get the signal to the BCM.
What the CLB does for you and why so many recommend it, is it unlocks the column lock, and then disconnects it from the circuit. In its' place it uses circuitry to send the appropriate signal to the BCM, at the appropriate time, once the key is activated. Timing of the signal is critical, otherwise you could simply flip a switch to send the signal telling the BCM everything was in order.
My friend removed the cover assembly and was able to tap on the column lock actuator/motor and get the micro-switch to send the unlocked signal to the BCM. He then installed the CLB (from Corvettes of Houston) and I have not had any problems since...
Keep in mind, that to install a CLB, the column lock actuator/motor must "unlock" and send the unlocked signal to the BCM or it will do you no good to install a CLB. I would try first to install a fully charged battery before anything else. It's not enough that the lock is functioning (I could hear mine operating clearly), it must also activate the micro-switch and send the required signal.
I apologize for being so long winded and hope this is of some help and you have a clearer picture of how everything is supposed to function. I learned more about the column lock system in 30 minutes with my friend, than I had talking to the best Corvette technician my dealer has for more than an hour during each of two visits, while they performed the recalls. Incidentally, while the PCM is looking for a signal, it appears that it is getting it via the BCM, which is where my friend was reading the unlocked/locked signal.
Someone has said that there is now an additional GM recall where they will remove the fuel cut-off feature after having removed the lock plate. I have heard nothing about this except that it was mentioned here on the FORUM recently.
Good luck... GUSTO
Last edited by GUSTO14; 02-19-2008 at 08:43 PM.
02-20-2008, 04:01 PM
#11
Burning Brakes
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Note to all reading this thread.
One thing I have read over, and over, and over again is - Install the CLB NOW while the system is working.
This is also referenced in GUSTO14’s post above. It is not “if” but “when” it will happen to you.
One last point - with the CLB installed on the very remote chance it fails, if you have a WORKING column lock motor, it can be temporarily reconnected to get you going.
Once the column motor (or its micro-switch) fails you are screwed. (Removing the motor from the system WHILE IT IS WORKING, by using the CLB will save wear on the column motor and its micro-switch)
One thing I have read over, and over, and over again is - Install the CLB NOW while the system is working.
This is also referenced in GUSTO14’s post above. It is not “if” but “when” it will happen to you.
One last point - with the CLB installed on the very remote chance it fails, if you have a WORKING column lock motor, it can be temporarily reconnected to get you going.
Once the column motor (or its micro-switch) fails you are screwed. (Removing the motor from the system WHILE IT IS WORKING, by using the CLB will save wear on the column motor and its micro-switch)
Last edited by timemender; 02-20-2008 at 04:17 PM.
02-20-2008, 04:16 PM
#12
Burning Brakes
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To the OP – John Galt
If the dealer must “replace” the motor assembly to get you going, why couldn’t they simply take the new motor assembly, NOT physically install it in the column, but simply “plug it in”, ground it to the chassis, and trick the BCM into thinking all is well.
At that point install the CLB. This would save you full labor cost since it would not be fully and permanently installed into the column.
Am I making any sense or just babbling on?
I don’t know what is involved in actually installing it into the column. Maybe the majority of the cost is in the motor assembly itself – though I doubt this what with the dealerships astronomically high labor rates.
Of course, good luck with getting the dealer to agree to this and not try to grab all the money they can get.
If the dealer must “replace” the motor assembly to get you going, why couldn’t they simply take the new motor assembly, NOT physically install it in the column, but simply “plug it in”, ground it to the chassis, and trick the BCM into thinking all is well.
At that point install the CLB. This would save you full labor cost since it would not be fully and permanently installed into the column.
Am I making any sense or just babbling on?
I don’t know what is involved in actually installing it into the column. Maybe the majority of the cost is in the motor assembly itself – though I doubt this what with the dealerships astronomically high labor rates.
Of course, good luck with getting the dealer to agree to this and not try to grab all the money they can get.
02-20-2008, 05:00 PM
#13
Burning Brakes
It happened to me a few times and the recall was done. What I did was take the key and clean it VERY good with rubbing alcohol. It has'nt happened anymore since I did that. Try it, it might solve your problem.
02-21-2008, 11:31 AM
#15
Burning Brakes
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I just did this. I removed harness K, and now everything works fine. Is this an acceptable long term solution, or should I get harness K replaced or get a CLB in its place?
The CLB has a VERY GOOD reputation for reliability.
The K-harness does NOT have a good reputation for reliability.
02-22-2008, 12:36 AM
#16
Safety Car
Thread Starter
I went down to Orange County Corvette's and had them set the column lock to "Not Fitted" and disable the fuel cutoff using HP Tuners.
Now, should I:
A: Leave the BCM plugged into the ECL
B: Leave the BCM unplugged from the ECL (or anything else)
C: Get a CLB and plug it into the BCM in place of the ECL
I feel that since the BCM is now set to column lock not fitted, that it should not be expecting any signals from the ECL and therefore I should just disconnect it and not worry. What is the best approach?
Now, should I:
A: Leave the BCM plugged into the ECL
B: Leave the BCM unplugged from the ECL (or anything else)
C: Get a CLB and plug it into the BCM in place of the ECL
I feel that since the BCM is now set to column lock not fitted, that it should not be expecting any signals from the ECL and therefore I should just disconnect it and not worry. What is the best approach?
02-22-2008, 03:31 PM
#17
Burning Brakes
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I went down to Orange County Corvette's and had them set the column lock to "Not Fitted" and disable the fuel cutoff using HP Tuners.
Now, should I:
A: Leave the BCM plugged into the ECL
B: Leave the BCM unplugged from the ECL (or anything else)
C: Get a CLB and plug it into the BCM in place of the ECL
I feel that since the BCM is now set to column lock not fitted, that it should not be expecting any signals from the ECL and therefore I should just disconnect it and not worry. What is the best approach?
Now, should I:
A: Leave the BCM plugged into the ECL
B: Leave the BCM unplugged from the ECL (or anything else)
C: Get a CLB and plug it into the BCM in place of the ECL
I feel that since the BCM is now set to column lock not fitted, that it should not be expecting any signals from the ECL and therefore I should just disconnect it and not worry. What is the best approach?
Wow John this is an interesting development to say the least.
I have been monitoring this other thread (link below) in which tuning software was able to undo the dealer’s programming to cut the fuel.
http://forums.corvetteforum.com/show....php?t=1912925
Up until now I have never read (or heard) of this being possible.
If this works this information should be a “sticky” or at least amended to the top of a corresponding sticky. Seriously!
The possibility of disabling (essentially removing) the column lock motor AND reversing the fuel cut-off programming without having to use the CLB (or similar) would seem to be the FINAL solution.
Keep us advised as to what you ultimately decide and how it works out.
02-26-2008, 01:28 AM
#20
Safety Car
Thread Starter
Okay, this past weekend, I disconnected the ECL from the BCM. No CLB. No K harness. The car threw the "Service Column Lock" error, but I was able to start and run the car no problem. No fuel cutoff at 2mph.
I was hoping that it would not even throw the error, but I guess it is enough that there was no fuel cutoff.
I am thinking that I may have to disable one of the added relays to get rid of the service column lock issue. I may play with that next weekend.
In any case, I think anyone that has actually had their column lock physically disabled by the recall, such that their wheel cannot ever lock, should go ahead and get someone with HP Tuners to disable the fuel cutoff, so even if their harness K or CLB fails, they will not be stranded.
I was hoping that it would not even throw the error, but I guess it is enough that there was no fuel cutoff.
I am thinking that I may have to disable one of the added relays to get rid of the service column lock issue. I may play with that next weekend.
In any case, I think anyone that has actually had their column lock physically disabled by the recall, such that their wheel cannot ever lock, should go ahead and get someone with HP Tuners to disable the fuel cutoff, so even if their harness K or CLB fails, they will not be stranded.