Service Steering Column Lock/Wait 10 after recall, how completely disable?
02-26-2008, 02:13 PM
#21
Burning Brakes
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Okay, this past weekend, I disconnected the ECL from the BCM. No CLB. No K harness. The car threw the "Service Column Lock" error, but I was able to start and run the car no problem. No fuel cutoff at 2mph.
I was hoping that it would not even throw the error, but I guess it is enough that there was no fuel cutoff.
I am thinking that I may have to disable one of the added relays to get rid of the service column lock issue. I may play with that next weekend.
In any case, I think anyone that has actually had their column lock physically disabled by the recall, such that their wheel cannot ever lock, should go ahead and get someone with HP Tuners to disable the fuel cutoff, so even if their harness K or CLB fails, they will not be stranded.
I was hoping that it would not even throw the error, but I guess it is enough that there was no fuel cutoff.
I am thinking that I may have to disable one of the added relays to get rid of the service column lock issue. I may play with that next weekend.
In any case, I think anyone that has actually had their column lock physically disabled by the recall, such that their wheel cannot ever lock, should go ahead and get someone with HP Tuners to disable the fuel cutoff, so even if their harness K or CLB fails, they will not be stranded.
The piece of mind of avoiding the fuel shut off should the CLB or K-harness fail is great progress with this troublesome issue.
Of course, those who still have the capability of the steering wheel locking, can still be "stranded".
Personally I think you will have to install the CLB to avoid the constant DIC error.
P.S. The CLB has a very good reputation for reliability, whereas the K-harness does NOT.
Last edited by timemender; 02-26-2008 at 02:17 PM.
03-28-2008, 05:09 AM
#22
8th Gear
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Hello Gusto,
I am having the exact same problem you had, with the dealer trying to charge me $541 to replace the locking motor. My current locking motor is also still operating, making whirring noises at the appropriate times. What your friend did for you, getting your faulty locking motor's microswitch to send an OK signal to the BCM long enough to install the CLB, do you have instructions on how to do that? I really don't want to replace my locking motor just so that it can send a signal back to the BCM, and not do anything else (my locking plate is gone).
Thanks.
I am having the exact same problem you had, with the dealer trying to charge me $541 to replace the locking motor. My current locking motor is also still operating, making whirring noises at the appropriate times. What your friend did for you, getting your faulty locking motor's microswitch to send an OK signal to the BCM long enough to install the CLB, do you have instructions on how to do that? I really don't want to replace my locking motor just so that it can send a signal back to the BCM, and not do anything else (my locking plate is gone).
Thanks.
John,
I went through exactly the same thing you did, including both recalls where the lock plate was finally removed. Unfortunately a few months later I ended up in the same situation you now find yourself in. Fortunately I was in the driveway and could get it into the garage until I figured out what to do.
As you probably know the recalls did not remove the column lock actuator/motor. This is because the BCM is looking for a signal from the actuator/motor telling it that the column is unlocked. Even after the recalls, the BCM is still looking for this signal. It is however, possible for the column lock actuator/motor to operate and still not send the signal to the BCM.
Using a Tech II, a friend, who is also a GM certified technician, was able to determine that the column lock in my car was in-fact unlocked (the Tech II allows you to operate the actuator/motor independent of the ignition system), and yet it was still telling the BCM that it was locked. There is a micro-switch in the actuator/motor that is activated to send the required signal. If it malfunctions the lock can work, but still not send a signal. My lock was functioning, but the micro-switch was not.
The GM service department solution to this problem is to replace the column lock motor... which is not inexpensive, and may or may not be covered under a warranty. Unfortunately this does not ultimately solve the problem, at least for long, because you are still dependent upon a non-functional component (the column lock actuator/motor) operating correctly to get the signal to the BCM.
What the CLB does for you and why so many recommend it, is it unlocks the column lock, and then disconnects it from the circuit. In its' place it uses circuitry to send the appropriate signal to the BCM, at the appropriate time, once the key is activated. Timing of the signal is critical, otherwise you could simply flip a switch to send the signal telling the BCM everything was in order.
My friend removed the cover assembly and was able to tap on the column lock actuator/motor and get the micro-switch to send the unlocked signal to the BCM. He then installed the CLB (from Corvettes of Houston) and I have not had any problems since...
Keep in mind, that to install a CLB, the column lock actuator/motor must "unlock" and send the unlocked signal to the BCM or it will do you no good to install a CLB. I would try first to install a fully charged battery before anything else. It's not enough that the lock is functioning (I could hear mine operating clearly), it must also activate the micro-switch and send the required signal.
I apologize for being so long winded and hope this is of some help and you have a clearer picture of how everything is supposed to function. I learned more about the column lock system in 30 minutes with my friend, than I had talking to the best Corvette technician my dealer has for more than an hour during each of two visits, while they performed the recalls. Incidentally, while the PCM is looking for a signal, it appears that it is getting it via the BCM, which is where my friend was reading the unlocked/locked signal.
Someone has said that there is now an additional GM recall where they will remove the fuel cut-off feature after having removed the lock plate. I have heard nothing about this except that it was mentioned here on the FORUM recently.
Good luck... GUSTO
I went through exactly the same thing you did, including both recalls where the lock plate was finally removed. Unfortunately a few months later I ended up in the same situation you now find yourself in. Fortunately I was in the driveway and could get it into the garage until I figured out what to do.
As you probably know the recalls did not remove the column lock actuator/motor. This is because the BCM is looking for a signal from the actuator/motor telling it that the column is unlocked. Even after the recalls, the BCM is still looking for this signal. It is however, possible for the column lock actuator/motor to operate and still not send the signal to the BCM.
Using a Tech II, a friend, who is also a GM certified technician, was able to determine that the column lock in my car was in-fact unlocked (the Tech II allows you to operate the actuator/motor independent of the ignition system), and yet it was still telling the BCM that it was locked. There is a micro-switch in the actuator/motor that is activated to send the required signal. If it malfunctions the lock can work, but still not send a signal. My lock was functioning, but the micro-switch was not.
The GM service department solution to this problem is to replace the column lock motor... which is not inexpensive, and may or may not be covered under a warranty. Unfortunately this does not ultimately solve the problem, at least for long, because you are still dependent upon a non-functional component (the column lock actuator/motor) operating correctly to get the signal to the BCM.
What the CLB does for you and why so many recommend it, is it unlocks the column lock, and then disconnects it from the circuit. In its' place it uses circuitry to send the appropriate signal to the BCM, at the appropriate time, once the key is activated. Timing of the signal is critical, otherwise you could simply flip a switch to send the signal telling the BCM everything was in order.
My friend removed the cover assembly and was able to tap on the column lock actuator/motor and get the micro-switch to send the unlocked signal to the BCM. He then installed the CLB (from Corvettes of Houston) and I have not had any problems since...
Keep in mind, that to install a CLB, the column lock actuator/motor must "unlock" and send the unlocked signal to the BCM or it will do you no good to install a CLB. I would try first to install a fully charged battery before anything else. It's not enough that the lock is functioning (I could hear mine operating clearly), it must also activate the micro-switch and send the required signal.
I apologize for being so long winded and hope this is of some help and you have a clearer picture of how everything is supposed to function. I learned more about the column lock system in 30 minutes with my friend, than I had talking to the best Corvette technician my dealer has for more than an hour during each of two visits, while they performed the recalls. Incidentally, while the PCM is looking for a signal, it appears that it is getting it via the BCM, which is where my friend was reading the unlocked/locked signal.
Someone has said that there is now an additional GM recall where they will remove the fuel cut-off feature after having removed the lock plate. I have heard nothing about this except that it was mentioned here on the FORUM recently.
Good luck... GUSTO
03-28-2008, 11:14 AM
#23
Racer
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I also had this column lock problem with fuel cut-off. I ended up pulling the covers off of the steering column, took hammer and flat tip screwdriver and knocked off the back of the actuator and removed the actuator pin and spring. Then installed the the CLB according to directions. Pulled the fuses so the CLB could sync with the BCM and it worked like a champ. No problems and that was over 3 years ago. The CLB take the place of the actuator when the BCM is trying to contact the actuator.
03-28-2008, 01:31 PM
#24
8th Gear
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Did you remove the actuator pin and spring because your column is locked? I don't have a locking plate anymore, so mine is not locked, so I'm assuming I don't need to do this step?
Several posts I've read stated that the CLB requires there to be no error or lock, and that if you install the CLB after you have an error or lock, it won't work. This does not seem to be the case in your case?
Several posts I've read stated that the CLB requires there to be no error or lock, and that if you install the CLB after you have an error or lock, it won't work. This does not seem to be the case in your case?
I also had this column lock problem with fuel cut-off. I ended up pulling the covers off of the steering column, took hammer and flat tip screwdriver and knocked off the back of the actuator and removed the actuator pin and spring. Then installed the the CLB according to directions. Pulled the fuses so the CLB could sync with the BCM and it worked like a champ. No problems and that was over 3 years ago. The CLB take the place of the actuator when the BCM is trying to contact the actuator.
03-28-2008, 03:28 PM
#25
Racer
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Yes, my column was fully locked with the pin engaging the lockplate on the back of the wheel. I had all the error messages associated with the column being locked along with the fuel shut off. The reason the column must be unlocked BEFORE installing the CLB is 'cause the CLB won't unlock the column because you must disconnect the harness from the column lock. I messed with my column lock for over 3 weeks (not daily driver) because I didn't want to have it flat bedded to the dealer and have them erase my tune on my moddifed '98. I had tried everything else and my last ditch effort was to remove the pin completely and sync the CLB to the BCM. Here is my theory, once you pull the fuses the BCM doesn't know anything about any column lock, but then you put the fuses back in with the CLB installed and the BCM sees the CLB as a functioning required device. The CLB is in sync with the BCM, "bingo". Drive it as normal.
03-28-2008, 03:56 PM
#26
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Ok thanks, that clears things up quite a bit. I have now good hope that I will be able to fix it with the CLB. $50 instead of $541. Hopefully the dealer doesn't try to charge me for bringing it in and diagnosing it, I wouldn't be surprised if they tried.
03-28-2008, 10:37 PM
#28
Advanced
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I receintly purchased a 2004 with automatic trans. Is the 2005 model year affected by this issue? How can I tell if the recall has bben done or if the CLB has been installed by a previous owner?
04-03-2008, 11:07 AM
#31
I had the recall done last summer and a few days later the car would nit run over 2mph as you describe. I had AAA flatbed it to the dealer who did the recall work and they chaecked with GM who told them the solutioj was to pull out the jumper K harness that the recall required them to install. Go figure.... No problems since then. Column does not lock.
04-03-2008, 12:48 PM
#32
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Do you have an automatic? The dealer told me because I have a manual I didn't have a K-harness installed as part of the recall. In my case the "all clear" signal was being sent by the locking motor itself, so when it went bad, I got the fuel cutoff.
In your case it sounds like the k-harness went bad, and they reverted it to where the locking motor is back to sending the "all clear". Note that if your locking motor ever goes bad, you will be in the situation I was in. If you have it trailered to the dealer, they will probably try to sell you a new locking motor for $500+, just to send the right signal (it won't lock anything because there is no locking plate). If you have a CLB on hand if/when this happens, you should be able to install it and be on your way for $50 instead. Or you could just install one now.
In your case it sounds like the k-harness went bad, and they reverted it to where the locking motor is back to sending the "all clear". Note that if your locking motor ever goes bad, you will be in the situation I was in. If you have it trailered to the dealer, they will probably try to sell you a new locking motor for $500+, just to send the right signal (it won't lock anything because there is no locking plate). If you have a CLB on hand if/when this happens, you should be able to install it and be on your way for $50 instead. Or you could just install one now.
I had the recall done last summer and a few days later the car would nit run over 2mph as you describe. I had AAA flatbed it to the dealer who did the recall work and they chaecked with GM who told them the solutioj was to pull out the jumper K harness that the recall required them to install. Go figure.... No problems since then. Column does not lock.
04-29-2008, 12:44 PM
#33
Heel & Toe
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I have an odd situation........I purchased my 2000 6spd convert w/16k on it Sept. 04. Had not a problem with it, only time it was in service was for oil changes and tires and a factory Delco battery (Last july). Last Oct. I dropped it off at a local detail shop, when I went back to pick it up, to my horror, they had ran it into a wall, significant left side damage, hood, fender, nose, wheel and tire. 7 hours frame damage. I was able to nurse the car back to my place of work one block away. The car was towed to the body shop, I recieved a call saying "the steering column is steering column is locked". (NEVER happend in the 3 years I had the car)It was towed to the local chevy dealer who said the recall was done in Sept 04 (just before I purchased the car) The ins company paid for the repair thinking it was due to the accident, 3 mos later I picked the car up and the "remove key for 10 seconds" was on. I took it to the dealer, they could find "no code". It waould randomly happen. I noticed the remotes were inopperable had the reprogrammed, locked and unlocked the doors and the problem stopped.......until Saturday, got the remove for 10 second code when I went to start, did it started and "column lock" came up and would not reset......it's in the shopp....possible ground strap broke loose..........
05-30-2008, 03:33 PM
#35
Heel & Toe
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Have you cleared the codes through the DIC? I believe this is an important step to do first.
I have never (thank God) had to deal with this issue, but in reading through all the confusing articles I read that first you must clear the codes.
Below is something I saved into my computer for future reference. (Copied from the Internet)
Hope it helps
Reset Fuel Cutoff Issue
Symptom - Pull Key wait 10 seconds and/or Fuel Cuts off after 2 seconds when trying to move the car.
1) Turn on the ignition but don't start the engine.
2) Press the "RESET" button to turn off any warning messages
3) Press and hold "OPTIONS"
4) While holding "OPTIONS", press "FUEL" four times within a 10-second period.
Initially, on-board diagnostics go into an "Automatic Mode" which shows diagnostic codes in a pre-set sequence: PCM - TCS - RTD - BCM - IPC - RADIO - HVAC - LDCM - RDCM - SCM - RFA. All codes will be displayed for each module. If none are present in a given module, you will see "No More Codes" on the display.
To exit the diagnostic mode at any time, press "E/M". If you want to erase codes in a given module, press "RESET".
To reset the codes once in manual mode, press and hold "RESET" until it displays "NO CODES". Press "OPTIONS" to go to the next module. Repeat the steps until you have reset the codes in all the computer modules.
Key back off, remove fuse #25 and wait 10 minutes before re-installing it.
Install the fuse, bring key back to On and all messages should be cleared as well as the fuel cut-off. If you still have problems repeat the above except this time remove fuses #25 and #29 for 10 minutes. Repeat again and it should be good to go.
I have never (thank God) had to deal with this issue, but in reading through all the confusing articles I read that first you must clear the codes.
Below is something I saved into my computer for future reference. (Copied from the Internet)
Hope it helps
Reset Fuel Cutoff Issue
Symptom - Pull Key wait 10 seconds and/or Fuel Cuts off after 2 seconds when trying to move the car.
1) Turn on the ignition but don't start the engine.
2) Press the "RESET" button to turn off any warning messages
3) Press and hold "OPTIONS"
4) While holding "OPTIONS", press "FUEL" four times within a 10-second period.
Initially, on-board diagnostics go into an "Automatic Mode" which shows diagnostic codes in a pre-set sequence: PCM - TCS - RTD - BCM - IPC - RADIO - HVAC - LDCM - RDCM - SCM - RFA. All codes will be displayed for each module. If none are present in a given module, you will see "No More Codes" on the display.
To exit the diagnostic mode at any time, press "E/M". If you want to erase codes in a given module, press "RESET".
To reset the codes once in manual mode, press and hold "RESET" until it displays "NO CODES". Press "OPTIONS" to go to the next module. Repeat the steps until you have reset the codes in all the computer modules.
Key back off, remove fuse #25 and wait 10 minutes before re-installing it.
Install the fuse, bring key back to On and all messages should be cleared as well as the fuel cut-off. If you still have problems repeat the above except this time remove fuses #25 and #29 for 10 minutes. Repeat again and it should be good to go.
I had the colum lock out on me last weekend and did all those processes.....none reset....had to be flatbedded to the local chevy store......
05-30-2008, 05:56 PM
#36
Burning Brakes
I just got this service message 5 minutes ago. As per instructions up to "Pull fuse #25 and #29#" These are both spare slots in my 02 vert and no fuse in use. Is there an alternate numbering chart?
05-30-2008, 06:13 PM
#37
Heel & Toe
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06-18-2008, 03:31 PM
#40
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I've had the same problem with my colum lock on my 2001 Z06, My car had the recall in 06 but just this past weekend it has decided to throw the wait ten sec and colum lock warnings at me. but my colum isn't locked I just have the fuel cut off issue. I read all you're posts which were really helpful and tried everything pulling fuses, disconnecting the battery, deleting the codes and I just insatalled the CLB from COH but I am still getting the warnings! does any body have any idea whats wrong?