Fog lights on w/ headlights down?
08-19-2006, 12:24 PM
#21
Drifting
Originally Posted by 2000FRCZ19
question #1 has this ever happened to you on your car?
if you answered yes what fixed it if the motor gear didnt?
if the answer is no, kindly spare us of the explainaion of
how the system works. the gears will cause the problem
because i have seen it. after fixing the gear, my headlights
and fog lights function properly every time. it was not in
the switch. i do not have an expaination for it but it is fact
and has been poven more than once. dont you just hate it
when experience contradicts theory.
i will bet that when the poster puts in the gears the problem will be fixed. post up and let us know if the gears fix your problem. if they do not i owe JC in XTC5 some beer money.
if you answered yes what fixed it if the motor gear didnt?
if the answer is no, kindly spare us of the explainaion of
how the system works. the gears will cause the problem
because i have seen it. after fixing the gear, my headlights
and fog lights function properly every time. it was not in
the switch. i do not have an expaination for it but it is fact
and has been poven more than once. dont you just hate it
when experience contradicts theory.
i will bet that when the poster puts in the gears the problem will be fixed. post up and let us know if the gears fix your problem. if they do not i owe JC in XTC5 some beer money.
Originally Posted by 2000FRCZ19
kindly spare us of the explainaion of how the system works.:
No need for beer money. But I'd love an answer to my question on how tearing into a motor to replace an internal gear in the motor addresses the electrical signal that it receives to raise it.
08-19-2006, 12:45 PM
#22
Tech Contributor
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2023 C5 of the Year Finalist - Unmodified
Originally Posted by StephenT
Just turn on the parking lights with the fog lights on 
Mine works this way:
From Off:
Park Position. Headlights Down – Side markers (in T/S cluster) On – Fogs enabled
Headlights Position. Headlights Up – Side markers On – Fogs enabled
Park Position. Headlights Up – Side markers On – Fogs enabled
08-19-2006, 02:00 PM
#23
I have an 02 and it works the way it should. Position 1, all lights except headlights, Position 2, all lights functional. When returning back to position 1, everything except headlights, but the lights stay in the raised position. I also have turned off the headlight sentinal to stop the up and down in the morning when I am starting and leaving the garage. I have to agree that I can see no way for the gears to cause this problem but also have no experience with the problem to comment on it. Good luck with your repairs!
08-19-2006, 03:13 PM
#24
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Thanks for everyone's responses. I will definitely post what the behavior of the headlights becomes once I have the new gears in place. Patiently waiting for the delivery...
08-19-2006, 03:23 PM
#25
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '12
Originally Posted by JC in XTC5
I have problems with a headlight not raising and that's why I investigated the operation.
Dude: Fine for me. If an analytical explanation of how a system works is somehow not relevant to diagnosing a problem then by all means start tearing the car apart starting from the rear
No need for beer money. But I'd love an answer to my question on how tearing into a motor to replace an internal gear in the motor addresses the electrical signal that it receives to raise it.
Dude: Fine for me. If an analytical explanation of how a system works is somehow not relevant to diagnosing a problem then by all means start tearing the car apart starting from the rear
No need for beer money. But I'd love an answer to my question on how tearing into a motor to replace an internal gear in the motor addresses the electrical signal that it receives to raise it.
Last edited by 2000FRCZ19; 08-19-2006 at 03:35 PM.
08-19-2006, 04:01 PM
#26
Burning Brakes
Originally Posted by JC in XTC5
I have problems with a headlight not raising and that's why I investigated the operation.
Dude: Fine for me. If an analytical explanation of how a system works is somehow not relevant to diagnosing a problem then by all means start tearing the car apart starting from the rear
No need for beer money. But I'd love an answer to my question on how tearing into a motor to replace an internal gear in the motor addresses the electrical signal that it receives to raise it.
Is it possible that the problem is related to how the motor shuts of with good vs. bad gears? With good gears, it should shut of due to a limit switch or high electrical load. With bad gear, it probably shuts of due to a time-out. This might cause the module to behave strangely.
I have problems with a headlight not raising and that's why I investigated the operation.
Dude: Fine for me. If an analytical explanation of how a system works is somehow not relevant to diagnosing a problem then by all means start tearing the car apart starting from the rear
No need for beer money. But I'd love an answer to my question on how tearing into a motor to replace an internal gear in the motor addresses the electrical signal that it receives to raise it.
Is it possible that the problem is related to how the motor shuts of with good vs. bad gears? With good gears, it should shut of due to a limit switch or high electrical load. With bad gear, it probably shuts of due to a time-out. This might cause the module to behave strangely.
08-19-2006, 04:27 PM
#27
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '12
the time out makes sense because with a bad gear, the motor grinds for 5 seconds after it closes. the man might be on to something. the head light not going up is what happened to mine right before the gear started to grind. the fix for me was to move the linkage off the headlight motor and turn the manual **** until the gear had turned 180* then i reinstalled the linkage. i have had no trouble since.
08-19-2006, 04:40 PM
#28
Burning Brakes
something is wrong with your system
I drive till dark with my switch to position 1 which enables me to drive with my fog lights on w/o raising them damn air brakes
I drive till dark with my switch to position 1 which enables me to drive with my fog lights on w/o raising them damn air brakes
08-19-2006, 06:08 PM
#29
Originally Posted by 2000FRCZ19
the time out makes sense because with a bad gear, the motor grinds for 5 seconds after it closes. the man might be on to something. the head light not going up is what happened to mine right before the gear started to grind. the fix for me was to move the linkage off the headlight motor and turn the manual **** until the gear had turned 180* then i reinstalled the linkage. i have had no trouble since.
I first posted that it was one of the 1st symptoms when my Multifunction switch was going bad but after thinking back I had both the gear strip out one side and then a week or so later after replacing the hole motor (stupid me didn’t know I could just turn the gear around or replace it) my Multifunction switch started going south. As these both happened a couple years ago it kind of just blends together. But I do recall now that when I was having the motor grinding away problem position one would bring the head lamp up 90% of the time, after replacing the motor all worked as normal, position 1: running lights, tail lights and fog if activated / position 2: head lamps up and on Note that if you go from position 2 to 1 the head lamps turn off but stay up. When I was first trying to fix it I had the motor apart and there was no limit switch I could see of so I think you guys are right that the limit switch is a electrical load switch in the control module and after some time if that switch is not activated it goes to a timed out condition. Sorry if I misled anyone with my original post.
08-23-2006, 10:57 PM
#30
Drifting
I owe you guys a huge apology :bb 
I claimed it was impossible for the gear to cause this issue but I was proven wrong tonight. Even more I learned something.
Tonight my passenger headlight made the grinding sound when I lowered it - the motor kept running for about 5 seconds and I knew the plastic gear was shot. But then I moved the switch up to the first position (parking lights) and the headlights popped up but stayed off just as is posted here.
To temporarily address the gear issue, I disconnected the door linkage and turned the motor **** until the gear turned 180* and reconnected. Then when I set the switch to the first position the doors did NOT come up as before proving that the gear problem during closing did in fact affect the way the headlight control module works on subsequent inputs.
As noted, the reason for this behavior appears to be the way the headlight control module works. It stops providing open or close power to the motor when it detects the increased current when the motor hits the stop. When the gear strips, the motor continues to run because it never detects the stop, but must shut off after a maximum time is exceeded as part of it's design. When you then move the switch to Parking Lights, that position does send a signal to the headight control module that the OFF input is no longer valid (OFF input is when switch is OFF), and since the control module never got the feedback it expected on the last OFF input it becomes confused and somehow provides the OPEN signal to the headlight motors.
Please foregive me for being too analytical and not digging deeper.
But I must now replace the gears as my penalty. Although I spun the gear 180*, the spot on the gear that was bad is now in the middle of the opening operation and has enough of a resistance that the control module things it's detecting a stop and prevents the motor from opening all the way. I can open it manually, but the bad spot is clearly there and must be due to a piece of the gear stuck between the teeth. You actually use about 60-70% of the gear so turning it 180* may work if the stripped part is not that bad.
I will now be quiet.
I claimed it was impossible for the gear to cause this issue but I was proven wrong tonight. Even more I learned something.
Tonight my passenger headlight made the grinding sound when I lowered it - the motor kept running for about 5 seconds and I knew the plastic gear was shot. But then I moved the switch up to the first position (parking lights) and the headlights popped up but stayed off just as is posted here.
To temporarily address the gear issue, I disconnected the door linkage and turned the motor **** until the gear turned 180* and reconnected. Then when I set the switch to the first position the doors did NOT come up as before proving that the gear problem during closing did in fact affect the way the headlight control module works on subsequent inputs.
As noted, the reason for this behavior appears to be the way the headlight control module works. It stops providing open or close power to the motor when it detects the increased current when the motor hits the stop. When the gear strips, the motor continues to run because it never detects the stop, but must shut off after a maximum time is exceeded as part of it's design. When you then move the switch to Parking Lights, that position does send a signal to the headight control module that the OFF input is no longer valid (OFF input is when switch is OFF), and since the control module never got the feedback it expected on the last OFF input it becomes confused and somehow provides the OPEN signal to the headlight motors.
Please foregive me for being too analytical and not digging deeper.
But I must now replace the gears as my penalty. Although I spun the gear 180*, the spot on the gear that was bad is now in the middle of the opening operation and has enough of a resistance that the control module things it's detecting a stop and prevents the motor from opening all the way. I can open it manually, but the bad spot is clearly there and must be due to a piece of the gear stuck between the teeth. You actually use about 60-70% of the gear so turning it 180* may work if the stripped part is not that bad.
I will now be quiet.
Last edited by JC in XTC5; 08-23-2006 at 11:00 PM.
08-24-2006, 07:48 AM
#31
Originally Posted by patrickC5
Maybe it is something with that year. I have an 00 and I turn my switch once and puch the button for the fog lights and they come on and the head lights stay down. Hope some one with an 02 can give you more insight.
Same for my 99
Bob
09-06-2006, 11:14 AM
#33
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
I think this issue has popped up in another thread, but as promised I wanted to post my results - gear replacement fixed the headlight popping up on switch position one. Two fixes in one! 
09-01-2012, 04:15 PM
#34
Heel & Toe
Go ahead and shoot me
I want my lights down, and fog lights on! now I can see I may have a solution with the gear repair
09-02-2012, 03:39 PM
#35
Race Director
It has and someone said it was the gears and someone argued there was no way for that to happen due to the electrical path/current switch(kinda like above post). Long story short that's what happens when the gears go out. I forgot why but it does. I'm no eng but that's just the way it works. As seen as some of the folks that have had this issue in the past. Fix the gears and as you see it fixes the issue.
09-02-2012, 05:33 PM
#36
Heel & Toe
Thanks
confirming my 2 problems in 1 is great lol I do understand how the car could make 2 problems out of one I can't wait to get the gear in this week I will replace the right side (noisy) and see what happens I installed replica Z06 chrome wheels and prepared to re-program with the magnet trick lo and behold the car re-set them by its self Very nice car for a 12 year old I have a 6.0L 2500HD and a 5.3L 07 Sub and a 03 Silverado with 4.8L so the very loud piston slap is "normal for me " Thanks for you input (all of you)
09-02-2012, 08:29 PM
#37
Drifting
