Inner fender replacement
05-07-2005, 12:21 AM
#1
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
Inner fender replacement
There was a thread on this the other day, and I added a little, but I can't find it now, and I'm wondering if someone knows more than I do (hopefully!!!) and/or if there are any bodymen/women out there who can offer some advice.
As said before, I'm redoing a 2001 w/ front end damage, and I have to replace both the inner and outer FRONT fenders and the hood, front bumper fascia, headlights, etc.
I have COMPLETELY removed the factory inner fenders from the frame (they were damaged beyond repair). The inner fenders are glued to the frame, and the shop manual says to leave a couple strips of the OLD glue at each glue location to act as a spacer when the new inner fender is glued in place. I've removed all of the old glue (except for a couple "spacing strips" of glue). As I recall, the shop manual also says the working time of the glue (inner fender to frame glue) is about 9 minutes.
It appears to me that there is very little, IF ANY, room for adjusting the OUTER fenders once they are screwed on to the INNER fenders. Correct? If so, this leads me to believe the the appearance and alignment of the outer front fenders is heavily (almost entirely??) dependant upon how the inner fenders are glued to the frame.
What I'm wondering is: Do you screw the outer front fenders to the inner front fenders, then align the enter inner/outer fender assembly w/ the hood and then quickly glue the inner fenders in place and HOPE LIKE H_LL you have everything lined up correctly? Or is there some other trick to gluing the inner fenders to the frame so that once they are glued and the outer fenders screwed on, so the outer fenders aren't pointing off in an incorrect direction.
Simply put if you are still w/ me: What are the secrets and tricks to use when gluing the inner fenders to the frame? What things must be done, what must you avoid doing, and what makes the entire process go much easier?
ANY help is much appreciated. I'm getting close to having my body shop start this process. They've never done it before, and I'd like to relay some info to them.
Thanks MUCH!! Bill.
As said before, I'm redoing a 2001 w/ front end damage, and I have to replace both the inner and outer FRONT fenders and the hood, front bumper fascia, headlights, etc.
I have COMPLETELY removed the factory inner fenders from the frame (they were damaged beyond repair). The inner fenders are glued to the frame, and the shop manual says to leave a couple strips of the OLD glue at each glue location to act as a spacer when the new inner fender is glued in place. I've removed all of the old glue (except for a couple "spacing strips" of glue). As I recall, the shop manual also says the working time of the glue (inner fender to frame glue) is about 9 minutes.
It appears to me that there is very little, IF ANY, room for adjusting the OUTER fenders once they are screwed on to the INNER fenders. Correct? If so, this leads me to believe the the appearance and alignment of the outer front fenders is heavily (almost entirely??) dependant upon how the inner fenders are glued to the frame.
What I'm wondering is: Do you screw the outer front fenders to the inner front fenders, then align the enter inner/outer fender assembly w/ the hood and then quickly glue the inner fenders in place and HOPE LIKE H_LL you have everything lined up correctly? Or is there some other trick to gluing the inner fenders to the frame so that once they are glued and the outer fenders screwed on, so the outer fenders aren't pointing off in an incorrect direction.
Simply put if you are still w/ me: What are the secrets and tricks to use when gluing the inner fenders to the frame? What things must be done, what must you avoid doing, and what makes the entire process go much easier?
ANY help is much appreciated. I'm getting close to having my body shop start this process. They've never done it before, and I'd like to relay some info to them.
Thanks MUCH!! Bill.
05-07-2005, 01:06 AM
#2
Intermediate
I need to replace the drivers side inner fender well too.
I tore off a section of the inner fender well from the brake vent down and I have ordered a new one to change it with. I am curious on any techniques myself. Talking with Gene from Geneskarshops.com he commented to me that the stuff they seal up the windows with when they install a new front windshield is good to use to glue the inner fenderwell back on with.
I am either going to change it myself or have the bodyshop do it since I am replaceing the front nose also. Mine is totally intact to the frame just the lower front section is gone so I can take some measurements hopefully before I remove the old one to get the thickness correct.
I would imagine that there is a measurement between the frame and the inner wheel well that should be used and that wooden spacers could be use to make the alignment as it is glued into place. They have to put them on at the factory so there must be a method.
I will monitor this post for some info also.
I am either going to change it myself or have the bodyshop do it since I am replaceing the front nose also. Mine is totally intact to the frame just the lower front section is gone so I can take some measurements hopefully before I remove the old one to get the thickness correct.
I would imagine that there is a measurement between the frame and the inner wheel well that should be used and that wooden spacers could be use to make the alignment as it is glued into place. They have to put them on at the factory so there must be a method.
I will monitor this post for some info also.
05-07-2005, 01:22 AM
#3
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
JDPerk:
The shop manual also mentions that a person can use paint sticks (used for stiring paint) to get the spacing. My recommendation, assuming you are replacing the entire inner fender and not just piecing a new part of an inner fender to the existing (old) inner fender is to completely remove the inner fender. Then, use a hack saw blade to but through the old glue in 2 places (saw up and down, not lengthwise) in order to leave the 1" "old glue strip." Then, use a plier to pry off the old glue (leave the 1" strip on the frame) and use a hammer & chisel to get all of the old glue off of the frame. Then use sandpaper to clean the frame where the glue was, and lightly sand the 1" glue strip to remove any remaining old inner fender.
This leaves you with a spacer that is identical to what the factory had. However, it still seems to me that you could then glue the new inner fender either a 1/2 inch up or down the wrong way, thereby throwing the outer fender alignment off.
Therein lies my dilema and the reason for my post.
Keep me posted on how you progress, what you do, what works etc.
Bill.
The shop manual also mentions that a person can use paint sticks (used for stiring paint) to get the spacing. My recommendation, assuming you are replacing the entire inner fender and not just piecing a new part of an inner fender to the existing (old) inner fender is to completely remove the inner fender. Then, use a hack saw blade to but through the old glue in 2 places (saw up and down, not lengthwise) in order to leave the 1" "old glue strip." Then, use a plier to pry off the old glue (leave the 1" strip on the frame) and use a hammer & chisel to get all of the old glue off of the frame. Then use sandpaper to clean the frame where the glue was, and lightly sand the 1" glue strip to remove any remaining old inner fender.
This leaves you with a spacer that is identical to what the factory had. However, it still seems to me that you could then glue the new inner fender either a 1/2 inch up or down the wrong way, thereby throwing the outer fender alignment off.
Therein lies my dilema and the reason for my post.
Keep me posted on how you progress, what you do, what works etc.
Bill.
05-07-2005, 02:45 AM
#4
Race Director
Member Since: Dec 2002
Location: Baltimore suburbs Maryland
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Oh my god, I hate aligning this inner fender. If it is even a little bit off, then your fender is going to be off too. It is a pain in the *** to adjust the wheel house properl.
I tried the remove the old glue and put it onto the new, but each inner fender (aka wheel house) is different and it did not work out for me. Right now my fender doesn't line up, but I'm too lazy to try to realign it myself.
I tried the remove the old glue and put it onto the new, but each inner fender (aka wheel house) is different and it did not work out for me. Right now my fender doesn't line up, but I'm too lazy to try to realign it myself.
05-07-2005, 01:32 PM
#5
Intermediate
Looks like there is only one way to mount the front wheel well.
Reading my manual pg 8-1565 (2000 C5) it states:
Quote:
5. Temporarily attach the fender to the wheelhouse.
5.1 Align the fender to door and hood and clamp the wheelhouse
assembly into place
5.2 Scribe line on rail to denote location of wheelhouse.
6. Apply adhesive to the wheelhouse.
7. Position front wheelhouse service part according to the scribe lines
on the rail.
8. Install the four bracket bolts which attach the wheelhouse to the
front hinge pillar, and clamp the wheelhouse to the rail.
9. Trowel around perimeter of bonding area to remove excess adhesive
and restore origninal apperarance.
10. Install all related panels and components.
So it looks like the wheelwell and fender need to be a mounted together to set the alignment of the outer fender to the door and hood. Then scribe alignment marks on the frame rail where the wheelwell should line up. Apply the glue and mount every to cure.
I would think that one would use paint sticks as suggested to help set the gap between the wheelwell and frame. I would also suggest to use any creative thing to hold it in place while applying the glue and it is set in place. Creative things like clamps, levels, squares for alignment, even drilling a hole in the frame and threading it to mount a bolt that would go through the inner wheelwell to set its alignment. The bolt would be removed one the alignment was completed.
That is an idea. Once the fender and wheelwell pair is use to establish the correct alignment one could drill a small alignment hole through the inner wheelwell and the frame and use an "all" or ice pick style tool to hold that alignment. A bolt and nut(s) could also be use where the bolt threads into the frame through the wheelwell and the nuts are used as spacers to help set the glue separation distance from the wheelwell to the frame. Hmmmmmm thats and idea.
These are just my thoughts right now after reading the manual. It looks like the alignment is somewhat of an art by using the "LOOK" of the alignment of the outer fender to the hood, nose, and door. (I guess aligning the fender to the door and hood would set the nose alignment.)
Hopefully someone who has successfully replaced the wheelwells on C5's many times will pop in and tell us his technique he has found.
Just my thoughts guys, I haven't replaced my wheelwell yet but I am concidering doing it myself.
Quote:
5. Temporarily attach the fender to the wheelhouse.
5.1 Align the fender to door and hood and clamp the wheelhouse
assembly into place
5.2 Scribe line on rail to denote location of wheelhouse.
6. Apply adhesive to the wheelhouse.
7. Position front wheelhouse service part according to the scribe lines
on the rail.
8. Install the four bracket bolts which attach the wheelhouse to the
front hinge pillar, and clamp the wheelhouse to the rail.
9. Trowel around perimeter of bonding area to remove excess adhesive
and restore origninal apperarance.
10. Install all related panels and components.
So it looks like the wheelwell and fender need to be a mounted together to set the alignment of the outer fender to the door and hood. Then scribe alignment marks on the frame rail where the wheelwell should line up. Apply the glue and mount every to cure.
I would think that one would use paint sticks as suggested to help set the gap between the wheelwell and frame. I would also suggest to use any creative thing to hold it in place while applying the glue and it is set in place. Creative things like clamps, levels, squares for alignment, even drilling a hole in the frame and threading it to mount a bolt that would go through the inner wheelwell to set its alignment. The bolt would be removed one the alignment was completed.
That is an idea. Once the fender and wheelwell pair is use to establish the correct alignment one could drill a small alignment hole through the inner wheelwell and the frame and use an "all" or ice pick style tool to hold that alignment. A bolt and nut(s) could also be use where the bolt threads into the frame through the wheelwell and the nuts are used as spacers to help set the glue separation distance from the wheelwell to the frame. Hmmmmmm thats and idea.
These are just my thoughts right now after reading the manual. It looks like the alignment is somewhat of an art by using the "LOOK" of the alignment of the outer fender to the hood, nose, and door. (I guess aligning the fender to the door and hood would set the nose alignment.)
Hopefully someone who has successfully replaced the wheelwells on C5's many times will pop in and tell us his technique he has found.
Just my thoughts guys, I haven't replaced my wheelwell yet but I am concidering doing it myself.
05-07-2005, 06:34 PM
#6
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
JD Perk:
I've gotta check my shop manual for instructions similar to your quote. Thanks for the reference. I don't recall my 01 manual being that specific, but it was a cursory look a couple weeks ago. THANKS for the quoted info!! It is at least a start, and unless someone adds more to this, it may be what I have to go with and learn more as I go. If so however, by the time the glue sets it could be too late.
I too am hoping someone w/ experience will chime in.
I've gotta check my shop manual for instructions similar to your quote. Thanks for the reference. I don't recall my 01 manual being that specific, but it was a cursory look a couple weeks ago. THANKS for the quoted info!! It is at least a start, and unless someone adds more to this, it may be what I have to go with and learn more as I go. If so however, by the time the glue sets it could be too late.
I too am hoping someone w/ experience will chime in.
05-26-2005, 10:50 PM
#7
Intermediate
I received my inner fender well from gmpartsdirect and it was damaged. The back was fractured and the front was fractured and separated. They just threw it in the same box with the front fascia without any packing. I had to send them pictures and they state they are sending a new one.
I was going to get the body shop to install it for me but I had them quote it and their labor rate stated 10 hours or more just to install.
I am going to have them paint and install the nose and I think I will tackle installing the wheelwell myself. I will just live with mine tapped together until I can replace it.
I will state how I did it when I am through.
I was going to get the body shop to install it for me but I had them quote it and their labor rate stated 10 hours or more just to install.
I am going to have them paint and install the nose and I think I will tackle installing the wheelwell myself. I will just live with mine tapped together until I can replace it.
I will state how I did it when I am through.
05-26-2005, 11:08 PM
#8
Melting Slicks
Thread Starter
I've got mine at the body shop currently, (been there for couple days) so work on reinstalling wheelhouses/inner fenders should begin soon.
However, before I took it to the body shop, I did this: I had completely removed both pass and drivers wheelhouses. I then removed all of the glue from the frame EXCEPT about a 1" strip in each gluing location to use as the recommended spacer.
Prior to taking it to the body shop, I was curious/anxious to see the wheelhouses back on, so I put the PASS side wheel house in place, and I tightened the 2 bolts that hold the wheelhouse on by the rear hood stop bumper, and I tightened the 3 bolts that hold the wheelhouse to the "L" shaped headlight bracket. After doing this, I was VERY supprised how little room for play there was between the wheelhouse and the frame. Almost fit tight against the "old" 1" glue strips. Tightening the above 5 bolts really seemed to snug things up.
In the middle of the wheelhouse, there was maybe about 1/8- 3/16 inch more gap than the "old" glue strip, but the shop manual almost seems to read that you SHOULD NOT force the wheelhouse tight against the frame. Rather, it almost seems that you install the outer fender to the inner wheelhouse, then install the inner wheelhouse in position, "scribe" marks onto the frame and wheelhouse when things look correctly aligned, and glue away.
I'm hoping it's not as big a job as I once thought (although still one for the body shop, not for me - although I'll help the shop out - I know the owner), and I REALLY!!! hope it's not gonna be 10 hours per side.
Keep me posted, I'll do the same. I'm looking forward to getting mine done, so I can finally drive it.
Bill.
However, before I took it to the body shop, I did this: I had completely removed both pass and drivers wheelhouses. I then removed all of the glue from the frame EXCEPT about a 1" strip in each gluing location to use as the recommended spacer.
Prior to taking it to the body shop, I was curious/anxious to see the wheelhouses back on, so I put the PASS side wheel house in place, and I tightened the 2 bolts that hold the wheelhouse on by the rear hood stop bumper, and I tightened the 3 bolts that hold the wheelhouse to the "L" shaped headlight bracket. After doing this, I was VERY supprised how little room for play there was between the wheelhouse and the frame. Almost fit tight against the "old" 1" glue strips. Tightening the above 5 bolts really seemed to snug things up.
In the middle of the wheelhouse, there was maybe about 1/8- 3/16 inch more gap than the "old" glue strip, but the shop manual almost seems to read that you SHOULD NOT force the wheelhouse tight against the frame. Rather, it almost seems that you install the outer fender to the inner wheelhouse, then install the inner wheelhouse in position, "scribe" marks onto the frame and wheelhouse when things look correctly aligned, and glue away.
I'm hoping it's not as big a job as I once thought (although still one for the body shop, not for me - although I'll help the shop out - I know the owner), and I REALLY!!! hope it's not gonna be 10 hours per side.
Keep me posted, I'll do the same. I'm looking forward to getting mine done, so I can finally drive it.
Bill.
01-26-2011, 08:42 PM
#9
1st Gear
Member Since: Jan 2011
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Wheelhouse issue
Hi newbie here. I bought a c5 too and doing the whole front end replacement, the wheelhouses (both) damaged along with the front bumper bar and the rails (about 6-8 inches back). I have put the front rails and bumper on, tacked on currently and have the hood with hinges on , it closes real good hitting the stops and holes perfect up at the windshield. So The problem is with the wheel house, seems the two hole bolt up, at the door jam is off on both sides ? The factory holes are about a inch behide where they should bolt up. I have driven this car after the wreck with no pulling, dead on steering, no shimmy or shake. There is no visible frame damage, struts and all A arm mounts perfect ......any good body guys out there with any insight ???? Thanks, maybe a call would be easyier ...thanks 740-727-8404.
10-21-2013, 02:21 PM
#10
2nd Gear
Member Since: Oct 2013
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Replacing my wheel house (drivers side)
All good advice, reading through this has helped me in thinking through the mounting process. Currently I have the old whell house removed. The easiest way to do it was to use a cordless sawzall with a 12-14" wood cutting blade. This blade cut easily through the glue, was flexible and didnt damage the metal. Once the wheel house was cut free I used one of those vibrating tools, there is a dremel brand but mine was generic. Its the kind of tool that you can cut wood trim with while its still mounted to the wall. Anyways, I used a flat wood/plastic cutting blade and it sliced the remainder of the glue right off. I cleaned the surface of the frame up a bit and treated it with some flat black paint. My passenger side wheel house is fully intact. I plan to use it as a reference to shim my drivers side wheel house with paint sticks (or anything else that will fill the gap), and bolt it to its rear mount. Then I plan to install the outer fender temporarly to make sure everything lines up right. Will post on my progress this week, I have all the parts. My only delima right now is deciding what type of adhesive to use. The glue that was used seemed like it was some type of hardened epoxy, not soft windshield adhesive. Does anyone know of a make or type of adhesive thats recommended for the wheel house other than windshield adhesive? Mine is a `02 C5-
10-21-2013, 02:48 PM
#11
Tech Contributor
Member Since: Dec 1999
Location: Anthony TX
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CI 6,7,8,9,11 Vet
St. Jude Donor '08
If it were me, I would assemble the complete front end/ wheel house inner fender well and when all the alignments to get everything lined up properly are complete make the necessary scribe lines.
Once you have everything correct, drill a couple holes in the frame for some self-tapping metal screws and screw the inner wheel well in place.
Remove the inner fender and apply your glue. Use the screws and the scribe marks to get it where it aligns correctly.
You can also temporarily glue some wood guide block to the frame to help make sure that its going back in the correct alignment spot.
Once you have everything correct, drill a couple holes in the frame for some self-tapping metal screws and screw the inner wheel well in place.
Remove the inner fender and apply your glue. Use the screws and the scribe marks to get it where it aligns correctly.
You can also temporarily glue some wood guide block to the frame to help make sure that its going back in the correct alignment spot.
10-22-2013, 08:19 PM
#12
Pro
Just did this using the method Bill describes. A couple of 1" wide pieces of the old adhesive to shim to the proper distance off the frame. A couple of bolts to hold it in position while the adhesive dries. I used 3m 8115. It's a 2 part epoxy, you'll need the special gun to apply it.
