Mike Mercury

is Carputing the only source for the '02 version of LS1Edit?
Their ordering procedure seems kinda funky; and for a $550 purchase I prefer to telephone and place the order with a real person.

Sorry if this has been asked before; the forum search function was fighting me on this.

Stu in CA

It's the only source I've heard of. I was able to post and have a local buyer who had one on order contact me. I found another club member for a third VIN, so the three of us can split a locked version. You might want to check out that option, down to $256 each. Good luck.

MattG

You have to order direct from Carputing.. Don't worry, they are a very repuatble company.. I think it is basically a one man operation for support, sales and development so he can't spend the whole day on the phone.. He has sold hundreds of copies of it already and has given everyone great customer support. I believe there is a 2-3 week wait rigth now for a single PCM version though.. I am ordering my copy in the next few days as well.

intel55

Exactly what Matt said. :D :D

Mike Mercury

Thanks; I'll email the company and get my concerns addressed.

Is the support after the sale also by email only?

intel55

the best way for support is through email. I have called Ken a few times, but sometimes it can take awhile to get ahold of him. Another way is to et on the LS1edit mailing list. I think it is http://www.ls1edit.com That way you get on a big email list and can pose questions to many people at once.
:D

ToplessTexan

It's more like a three man operation now. :)

Mike Mercury

May be ordering by the end of this week. Thanks for the info.

RWhite

I just got my LS1 Edit email deal running last week and the traffic is pouring out of my computer! Lots of info going back and forth, too much for me to keep up with but it is the place to get questions answered and see what everybody is doing.

Phil97SVT

I just got an email from Carputing and they said they should have parts in this week to complete alot of orders that are already placed. Should ship by Friday.
Phillip

Mike Mercury

OK, just ordered it today!!!!

I just wish there was a dedicated section on CF for those using LS1Edit. I have learned to trust qi\uite a few members here; and don't know many of the people on LS1.com.

Is Carputing a forum vendor.... is that what's keeping their own section from being started here?

ToplessTexan

:cheers:

Ken takes every opportunity to frown on the proliferation of LS1-Edit boards, lists, etc. His position is that it only serves to dilute the tribal knowledge base. Rest assured that you'll see many familiar faces over there in addition to several very knowledgeable folks you won't see here.

BLISS

Guys, I just spoke with KK @ E-Town this past Saturday , he says it has taken off .... orders are insane ! Good product IMHO. I have access to unlimited 97-02 version, so I am happy ... but the $550 is worth it for any serious enthusiast willing to tweak all by him or herself :D

Mike Mercury

ToplessTexan

I always read your posts... you are very knowledgeable.

I am now hesitating with sending my check out to Carputing tomorrow via Priority mail.

I have two minimum (but simple) needs for LS1Edit:

1. Turn off (however that is done) Torque Management

2. Firm up the A4 shifts... mainly at WOT

But I just read a post on another forum where a guy has been trying to eliminate TM for 2 months... and still can't get it totally disabled... there is some spark retard happening at the A4 shift points.

Gee, something like TM removal shoufd be a cut-n-dry function. But it seems no one has completely fugured it out yet (?????).

that's why I am surprised by this statement:
Ken takes every opportunity to frown on the proliferation of LS1-Edit boards, lists, etc. His position is that it only serves to dilute the tribal knowledge base

If Ken can't figure out this function specifically and completely; then what's needed is "LS1-Edit boards".

Am I going to be able to accomplish my two goals without having to re-invent the wheel all by myself; and/or is there a web page or printed manual that states instructions:

"do these specific steps in LS1Edit for your 2002 A4 Corvette and TM will be completely out of the picture..."

Tim



[Modified by Mike Mercury, 10:46 PM 7/17/2002]

ToplessTexan

Item 2 is easy, 1 is more challenging. TM is not completely addressed in the currently shipping version, more capability there is planned for 1.06. There are some things you can do now, though not always obvious. And the "obvious" things aren't always what they seem either. An example is the infamous Max Torque Limit parameter that many raise to absurd values. This value is in fact used by the EBTCM in determining the Desired Torque target. Raising this to extremes can result in "interesting" TC/AHS behavior. That's just an example, but you get the idea.

I would offer that the discussion boards provide exactly zero lift to the goal of reverse engineering GM's PCMs. People's opinions don't matter at all, how things *actually* work is all that matters. Uneducated speculation might be fun for those doing the speculating, but it doesn't actually foster progress. The real value in discsussions among users (rather than developers) is in helping each other use the tool's currently available capabilities, not in discovering new ones. Believe me, there is no shortage of well aimed "this should be next on the priority list" requests. Keep in mind that LT1-Edit sets many expectations for what LS1-Edit should ultimately be capable of. None of my comments should be interpreted as a statement that it is currently shy on capability, but rather that you should anticipate that new features will continue to be added as things are puzzled out.

In general, no you don't have to reinvent the wheel, there are lots of folks who can help here, at ls1tech.com and on the mailing list but only in so far as the capability exists in the tool. Put TM in the same category as gear scaling and you'll have a pretty good picture of where it stands. ;)

Mike Mercury

Oh, I agree and know where you are coming from; but back in 1995, someone at GM knew how to set program fields to invoke TM with a LS1 A4 setup, where it was to happen... and during what specific circumstances. So you would think that 7 years later and with a $550 editing program in hand... it should be cut-n-dry.

Hey, I'm not the guru; but a company is selling a product... and it's not cheap, and you would think that eliminating TM should be a "check box" somewhere in the LS1Edit program. Or a instruction somewhere that says:

"to eliminate/severly reduce TM; go to "this" page; pull down "that" tab; reduce that number to zero; then to to "another page"... look at field number 3, reduce it by 47%... job done."

I still have a written check in hand for $550... but can't seem to get it into the proioity mail envelope for some reason.

ToplessTexan

That's a perfectly reasonable expectation to have, modulated by how much information has been available/discoverable in the intervening years and how much time and money has been dedicated to the problem. I know of dozens of problems in my domain that are easily solvable which haven't been simply due to resource constraints.

I think people don't recognize the level of difficulty in simply acquiring the level of understanding of the PCM's functions needed to achieve what you're looking for. I get that you're not looking for a Macintosh kind of solution, but the bottom line is that understanding is still evolving.

Also, I have never had the expectation that "easy to use" is necessarily a requirement in any particular product. I don't think anybody has ever said anything other than that the knowledge of what changes to make to effect the desired outcome was the challenge.

If it were a smaller check I'm sure it would fit. :D I'm sure you could find many so called tuners who would tell you I'm all wet and they can fix you right up, no problem. I would keep that check too. ;)

At the end of the day, $500-600 bucks is really not that much though. I've had bar bills bigger than that.


[Modified by ToplessTexan, 9:48 AM 7/18/2002]

Mike Mercury

understood. When I emailed LS1Edit, I aksed them to (as a part of my sale) to increase the free software update period to one year instead of the stated 6 month period; for that exact reason.... things are still evolving.

I was told that costs $100 extra for one year.
Hey, in this day and age we all have long experience in th ecomputer and software industry. And what most know is to not rely on a promise of a "future update to address those concerns". I am already reading that version 1.06 will blah... blah.. blah. When it comes to computer software, we all know to not believe it until it is in hand.

As far as TM goes; you mean that no one to date (including all the guru's, the LS1Edit specialists, and others) haven't figured out the means by which to greatly reduce TM? If all those specialists can't come up with it, how can just lil' ole me figure it out?

If LS1Edit is a "here's the data, you figure it out" product; then just make sure people know that before the purchase.
But I need results, and if I can't greastly reduce or eliminate TM, and firm up my shifts within a couple days of product receipt... I don't know why I would buy it.
Everyone I have chated with, or emailed with have these two main goals with their A4 LS1 Corvettes, eliminate (or nearly so) TM, and invoke hard shifts at WOT.
If the LS1Edit people would just include a printed sheet, with numbered steps that would accomplish these tasks; WOW.

What I don't want to get into is a reprog attempt that is nothing but
"try this and see if it works".

Gee, a promise (especially this early on with the 2002 capable version of LS1Edit) of a one year free software upgrade period just may get than check in the envelope.

Mike Mercury

I have started another post asking about program options. Thanks to all that replied.

:cheers:

ToplessTexan

That's part of their business model and serves to extend the life of the product. It's got more functionality that any other available end-user programming option in it's current state. You get six months of updates for free. (I've already received two public releases since late January, along with a few betas.) For the truly enthusiastic, you can extend this subscription for a fee and get more advanced (and presumably more challenging to utilize) functionality as it becomes available.

I can't speak to what most know, but in my own experience I tend to place more faith and confidence in the statements of those I have experience working with and less in those I haven't. A well advertised track record can proxy for direct experience with someone too. I would encourage you to consider Carputing's track record in delivering product rather than someone else's.

I would call it partially implemented. There are things you can do using the current version (I believe I mailed you a very specific suggestion that I run in my own car) and more on the way.

Li'l ole you has more time to spend in trial and error mode than most tuners. You're a sharp guy, don't count yourself out. :) You are mixing two different issues though... Capability implemented in a tool and the ability to use that capability.

Have you downloaded the user manual and had a look at it? I really don't need to mention liability issues, right?

You need a car. You need an editor and programmer. You need a way (and hopefully a plan for how) to measure the effect of your changes. You need to have some idea of what changes you wish to effect. You need to have some idea of what ***** to twist and why and how far. If you are shy on any of these it's time to execute a make/rent/buy decision.

Absolutely nothing wrong with looking for a better deal although one of the many things my dad taught me was not to step over dollars picking up dimes. ;) Show me a better end-user programming option. The real question is whether or not end-user programming makes sense for you. Maybe it makes more sense if you wait a little (say 2-3 months) and go this route when the functionality you're after is more fully implemented. You'll get little sympathy from me about having to wait though... I had my 3.73s sitting and waiting for the January release for WAY TOO LONG. :jester At least I'm not complaining about not being able to get my programmer reprogrammed. ;)


[Modified by ToplessTexan, 8:04 PM 7/18/2002]