While in overdrive 4th, to downshift to 3rd requires some pedal effort. So if you want to speed up a little, you lug. If you lug, you can ping a little.
So how can I program the shifts so the downshift from 4th to 3rd requires very little or no pedal effort? Or should I be looking at shift pressure or torque mgmt settings?
While in overdrive 4th, to downshift to 3rd requires some pedal effort. So if you want to speed up a little, you lug. If you lug, you can ping a little.
So how can I program the shifts so the downshift from 4th to 3rd requires very little or no pedal effort? Or should I be looking at shift pressure or torque mgmt settings?
Thanks
JR
As I recall the table is called downshift rpm vs. TPS.
Make changes to this parameter to alter your downshift settings.
Can anyone share some experience with setting these? To be honest, info I gathered so far on the 3 TorqueMgmt settings, shift RPM and shift MPH is pretty dim. For example.....Any of the 3 TM settings offer "OFF ON NO CHANGE". When you get to this option, it doesn't say what the setting is currently, it just gives the options.
And I can see the need for OFF and ON, but why "NO CHANGE"? Wouldn't hitting escape accomplish the same thing? Maybe it means something else....anyone know for sure?
Can someone provide some clear examples? I sure wouldn't want to make a serious mistake.
Thanks
Last edited by jrizzuto; 05-30-2007 at 11:22 PM.
Reason: be more explicit
so no one knows how to adjust these predator parameters?
Do you have a parameter available in your tool like the one I described above?
I thought it was listed as downshift rpm vs. tps.
If not, it will be something to that effect.
This is the parameter that needs to be adjusted to accomplish what you are trying to do with the 4>3 downshift at part throttle.
TM settings are partially disabled in the base A4 tune, and you have the option of turning it on, off or leaving it as it is in the tune.
Pressing escape will do the same thing as no change.
OK, it looks like I confused myself a bit here.
The Parameter I was referring to is Upshift mph vs.tps.
The downshift paerameters in the tool are for WOT settings, but I would imagine I could have our tuner write you a custom tune to command the 4>3 shift at a lower tps setting.
If you would like to try this, email me a copy of your stock tune to mlitsch@diablsoport.com
I had the same problem in my 2000 'vert, so I emailed Diablo asking them for an updated list of definitions for the Predator. I think it's ridiculous that you pay almost $400 and get a "user manual" that doesn't even come close to describing what you are seeing on your device. This leaves the user to shoot in the dark and having to experiment to find out what does what. Some are self explanatory, but others are not at all intuitive and need some explanation. Anyway, that's my bitch. To their credit, I did receive an email with updated descriptions, but I see from your question they did not update their manual yet (bitch, bitch, bitch...).
To answer your downshifting problem, I found that when I lowered the "Downshift MPH" parameter for each gear that I finally gained easy downshifts with less throttle required. It took a fairly steep adjustment, but now it downshifts quickly without my having to put my foot into it.
Here is a copy of my email to Predator and their response:
CATEGORY: Predator
QUESTION: [I just got into modifying the parameters of the shifting, torque management, etc. and found that the instruction book doesn't cover exactly what I am seeing on the Predator. Do you have an updated manual which describes what the parameters I see on the Predator are, because the sketchy descriptions in the readout window don't really provide enough information to tell exactly what is being adjusted and the manual doesn't make any mention of most of them.
ANSWER:
Here are additional descriptions of the parameters, assuming you have part number U7198:
Axle Ratio:
Allows user to configure new rear end gear ratios, to correct speedometer and in corvette correct shift action.
Additional parameters to adjust for gear changes:
When changing rear end gears on all vehicles it is recommended that the following changes are made as well to ensure proper operation of the transmission.
Change the MPH upshift and downshift points the same percentage as gear change. For a higher gear ratio reduce mph and for a lower gear ratio increase mph. Ex. 3.42 to 3.73, equals roughly a 10% change in gear ratio size.
Change the MPH upshift vs. TP the same percentage as gear change.
For a higher gear ratio reduce mph and for a lower gear ratio increase mph. Ex. 3.42 to 3.73, equals roughly a 10% change in gear ratio size.
Gear Ratio:
Gear ratio adjustment, trucks,SUV and f-body require user to slide the scale to new gear ratio. Corvette will ask user to enter current gear ratio then new gear ratio so it can calculate the proper pulses per mile."
Power enrichment:
Fuel adjustment when in PE(power enrichment mode) the Predator allows for a 20% increase or decrease. ,
PLEASE NOTE: The display in Predator will show a positive value for leaner and negative value for richer, one might think it is backwards but it is not, the fuel table in GM vehicles is based on lambda where 1 is equal to stoich 14.7:1 and any value higher is richer and lower is leaner",
WOT Fuel 2k-4k, Power enrichment (fuel) modification between 2000-4000 rpm
WOT Fuel 4k-7k, Power enrichment (fuel) modification between 4000-7000 rpm
Spark:
Timing adjustments are made based on % and the predator allows user to add or subtract 20% of timing in respective field.
When adjusting timing it is recommended that user monitors the spark parameter and knock retard parameter in the live data menu of Predator. The knock retard value should always be zero, if it is not it indicates how much timing is being pulled due to knock(detonation).
Spark 1k-1.8k, Timing adjustment between 1000-1800rpm, this adjustment occurs in low load (tip-in) section of timing table as well so proper monitoring of knock retard is highly recommended when adding timing using this parameter.
WOT Spark 2k-4k, Timing adjustment between 2000-4000rpm, high load (Wide open throttle) only.
WOT Spark 4k-7k, Timing adjustment between 4000-7000rpm, high load (Wide open throttle) only.
Shift Time:
This adjusts the duration time of a shift.
1->2 Normal, Shift time 1st to 2nd gear in normal mode, this is set at optimum settings in the default Predator tune, which is .02 seconds.
2->3 Normal, Shift time 2nd to 3rd gear in normal mode, this is set at optimum settings in the default Predator tune, which is .02 seconds.
3->4 Normal, Shift time 3rd to 4th gear in normal mode, this is set at optimum settings in the default Predator tune, which is .02 seconds.
1->2 Tow/Haul, Shift time 1st to 2nd gear in tow/haul mode, this is set at optimum settings in the default Predator tune, which is .02 seconds.
2->3 Tow/Haul, Shift time 2nd to 3rd gear in tow/haul mode, this is set at optimum settings in the default Predator tune, which is .02 seconds.
3->4 Tow/Haul, Shift time 3rd to 4th gear in tow/haul mode, this is set at optimum settings in the default Predator tune, which is .02 seconds.
Upshift MPH:
1->2 Normal, 1st to 2nd gear upshift MPH mark, the vehicle must see this MPH before allowing a RPM shift under wide open throttle conditions, in normal trans mode.
2->3 Normal, 2nd to 3rd gear upshift MPH mark, the vehicle must see this MPH before allowing a RPM shift under wide open throttle conditions, in normal trans mode.
3->4 Normal, 3rd to 4th gear upshift MPH mark, the vehicle must see this MPH before allowing a RPM shift under wide open throttle conditions. If this parameter is maxed out from factory, it is not being used by the vehicles PCM, in mormal trans mode.
1->2 Tow/Haul, 1st to 2nd gear upshift MPH mark, the vehicle must see this MPH before allowing a RPM shift under wide open throttle conditions, in tow/haul trans mode.
2->3 Tow/Haul, 2nd to 3rd gear upshift MPH mark, the vehicle must see this MPH before allowing a RPM shift under wide open throttle conditions, in tow/haul trans mode.
3->4 Tow/Haul, 3rd to 4th gear upshift MPH mark, the vehicle must see this MPH before allowing a RPM shift under wide open throttle conditions. If this parameter is maxed out from factory, it is not being used by the vehicles PCM, in tow/haul trans mode.
Downshift MPH:
2->1 Normal, 2nd to 1st downshift MPH mark, this MPH must be seen in order for transmission to allow a downshift, in normal trans mode.
3->2 Normal, 3rd to 2nd downshift MPH mark, this MPH must be seen in order for transmission to allow a downshift, in normal trans mode.
4->3 Normal, 4th to 3rd downshift MPH mark, this MPH must be seen in order for transmission to allow a downshift. If this parameter is maxed out from factory, it is not being used by the vehicles PCM, in normal trans mode.
2->1 Tow/Haul, 2nd to 1st downshift MPH mark, this MPH must be seen in order for transmission to allow a downshift, in tow/haul trans mode.
3->2 Tow/Haul, 3rd to 2nd downshift MPH mark, this MPH must be seen in order for transmission to allow a downshift, in tow/haul trans mode.
4->3 Tow/Haul, 4th to 3rd downshift MPH mark, this MPH must be seen in order for transmission to allow a downshift. If this parameter is maxed out from factory, it is not being used by the vehicles PCM, in tow/haul trans mode.
Upshift RPM:
RPM shift point that dictates at what rpm to shift into next gear under wide open throttle conditions.
1->2 Normal, 1st to 2nd gear upshift RPM, in normal trans mode"
2->3 Normal, 2nd to 3rd gear upshift RPM, in normal trans mode"
3->4 Normal, 3rd to 4th gear upshift RPM, in normal trans mode"
1->2 Tow/Haul, 1st to 2nd gear upshift RPM, in tow/haul trans mode."
2->3 Tow/Haul, 2nd to 3rd gear upshift RPM, in tow/haul trans mode."
3->4 Tow/Haul, 3rd to 4th gear upshift RPM, in tow/haul trans mode."
Upshift MPH vs TP:
These parameters will allow user to adjust the mph shift point based on throttle position, these shift points are used under part throttle conditions.
The Predator will allow for a % increase or decrease in mph.
1-2 Normal, 1st to 2nd gear shift mph table in normal trans mode.
2-3 Normal, 2nd to 3rd gear shift mph table in normal trans mode.
3-4 Normal, 3rd to 4th gear shift mph table in normal trans mode.
1-2 Tow/Haul, 1st to 2nd gear shift mph table in tow/haul trans mode.
2-3 Tow/Haul, 2nd to 3rd gear shift mph table in tow/haul trans mode.
3-4 Tow/Haul, 3rd to 4th gear shift mph table in tow/haul trans mode.
WOT pressure:
Shift pressure adjustment under wide open throttle.
2nd Normal, 1st to 2nd gear shift pressure under wide open throttle, in normal trans mode.
3rd Normal, 2nd to 3rd gear shift pressure under wide open throttle, in normal trans mode.
4th Normal, 3rd to 4th gear shift pressure under wide open throttle, in normal trans mode.
2nd Tow/Haul, 1st to 2nd gear shift pressure under wide open throttle, in tow/haul trans mode.
3rd Tow/Haul, 2nd to 3rd gear shift pressure under wide open throttle, in tow/haul trans mode.
4th Tow/Haul, 3rd to 4th gear shift pressure under wide open throttle, in tow/haul trans mode.
Part throttle shift pressure:
Shift pressure under partial throttle conditions.
2nd Normal, 1st to 2nd gear shift pressure under partial throttle, in normal trans mode.
3rd Normal, 2nd to 3rd gear shift pressure under partial throttle, in normal trans mode.
4th Normal, 3rd to 4th gear shift pressure under partial throttle, in normal trans mode.
2nd Tow/Haul, 1st to 2nd gear shift pressure under partial throttle, in tow/haul trans mode.
3rd Tow/Haul, 2nd to 3rd gear shift pressure under partial throttle, in tow/haul trans mode.
4th Tow/Haul, 3rd to 4th gear shift pressure under partial throttle, in tow/haul trans mode.
Rev Limit:
Rev Limit Increase/decrease, allows for a 1000rpm increase or decrease in rev limiter, ensure that the rev limit is raised if the shift RPM is raised so it will not interfere with a shift.
Speed Limit:
Speed limiter adjustment, allows for a max of 125mph in trucks/SUV’s and 175mph in f-body vehicles.
With out ETC, speed limiter for vehicles equipped without electronic throttle.
With ETC, speed limiter for vehicles equipped with electronic throttle.
Speed Limit, default speed limit, this parameter is usually maxed out in all applications, if it is not it should be raised if an increase in top speed limiter is desired.
Actual Wheel Size:
Allows user to adjust for a change in tire size, user must enter current(original) tire size and actual(new) tire size to allow Predator to adjust the speedometer.
PLEASE NOTE: Tire sizes must be entered in metric sizes, if the tire size is not displayed in metric on tire there is an excel sheet available for download on our website in the download section that will convert the standard values to metric size.
Actual Wheel Size, adjust tire size to correct speedometer.
Idle RPM:
Allows user to adjust the desired idle rpm, the Predator allows for a 300 rpm decrease and a 500rpm increase in idle rpm. The adjustments are based on what gear is selected and if the vehicle has the air conditioning on or off. For manual transmission vehicles only the drive parameter is used.
Drive A/C OFF, idle in drive with the air conditioning off.
Drive A/C ON, idle in drive with the air conditioning on.
Neutral A/C ON, idle in neutral with the air conditioning on.
Neutral A/C OFF, idle in neutral with the air conditioning off.
Torque Management:
The torque management group will allow user to disable torque management completely. Some adjustments to torque management have been done in the default Predator tune and to completely disable the torque management user must turn the following three parameters off.
PLEASE NOTE:
Upshift torque reduction should only be turned off on passenger vehicles only as the effect of turning it off on trucks and SUV’s leaves a undesired delay when shifting from 1st to 2nd under wide open throttle.
TM Abuse mode time limit: parameter indicating how long the vehicle should stay in the torque management mode, this should be turned off. Turning it off will set the table to 0 seconds.
% Torque Reduction vs RPM: This is the applied torque reduction versus rpm and should also be turned off, turning it off will set this table to zero which will apply zero torque reduction during a shift.
Upshift Torque Reduction: This is desired torque reduction applied by gear. This should be turned off in passenger vehicles only, it does not leave the desired effect in trucks and SUV’s. Turning these tables off will set them to zero and thus request zero torque management during a shift.
Injector Slope:
Use to determine the injector size and also to correct the long term fuel trims.
Injector change: To properly set up injector size it is recommended that you multiply the current slope by injector % change.
Example:
#24 to #30
(30-24) / 24 * 100 = 25%
so multiply the entire slope by 25% to get you in the ballpark.
Long term fuel trim correction:
Determining long term fuel trims: Long term fuel trims are an accumulated value of fuel added or subtracted during closed loop operation.
To verify and tune for long term fuel trims, drive the vehicle for 30 minutes or until warmed up, monitor long term fuel trims and get an average value. The easiest way to do this is to get on the highway, enable cruise control and sit at 55mph while monitoring the data. Ideal values should be in the 0 to negative 2 range.
Once you get the average long term fuel trim value:
o Positive long term fuel trims
For a positive value you subtract that value in percent in the predator injector slope. It is also recommended to lean both fuel tables by the same percentage.
o Negative long term fuel trims
For a negative value you add that value in percent in the predator injector slope. It is also recommended to richen both fuel tables by that same percentage.
Once adjustment is done and tune installed, take the vehicle out and verify the long term fuel trims per previously described method. Adjust again if necessary.
COT:
Catalytic overtemp protection, this should only be adjusted if the catalytic converters have been removed. This will disable the COT strategy and prevent COT from being performed.
COT Enable Temp, this will allow user to adjust at what temperature the pcm will enable the COT strategy, by setting it to 1200 degrees it will never see this temperature and thus never turn on.
P-0420-0430, These two dtc’s(diagnostic trouble codes) will need to be turned off if the vehicle’s catalytic converters have been removed as it will trigger these dtc’s otherwise and a SES(service engine soon) light will appear on the dash.
OBD-II EGR:
This section of parameters will need to be disabled and turned off in order to prevent SES lights to appear when removing the EGR system from the vehicle.
EGR Disable MPH, mph when to disable the egr strategy, set high(increase by 200) to disable.
EGR Enable MPH, mph when to enable the egr strategy, set high(increase by 200) to disable.
The following are dtc codes that needs to be turned off when removing the egr system.
P-0400, P-0401, P-0402, P-0404, P-0405, P-1404, P-1406, P-1409.
OBD-II AIR:
This section of parameters will need to be disabled and turned off in order to prevent SES lights to appear when removing the AIR system from the vehicle.
The following are dtc codes that needs to be turned off when removing the air system.
P-0410 & 412, P-0418, P-1415, P-1416
OBD-II O2 sensor:
This section of parameters will need to be disabled and turned off in order to prevent SES lights to appear when removing the rear 02 sensors from the vehicle.
The following are dtc codes that needs to be turned off when removing the rear 02 sensors.
CAGS:
Computer aided gear selection, this parameter allows user to disable the CAGS(skip shift) 1st to 4th gear strategy.
Skip shift, turn the skip shift strategy on or off.
Cooling Fans:
This parameter will allow user to adjust the fan on and off temperatures for vehicles equipped with electric fans. The on temperature should always be higher than the off as the fan on tells pcm when to enable the fan and off tells pcm when the temperature is cool enough to turn the fan off.
Fan 1 ON, temperature when to turn fan one on.
Fan 1 OFF, temperature when to turn fan one off.
Fan 2 ON, temperature when to turn fan two on.
Fan 2 OFF, temperature when to turn fan two off.
Thank you for your interest in DiabloSport!
Stay tuned,
Calvin, a proud member of the DiabloSport Support Team
...I emailed Diablo asking them for an updated list of definitions for the Predator. I think it's ridiculous that you pay almost $400 and get a "user manual" that doesn't even come close to describing what you are seeing on your device. This leaves the user to shoot in the dark and having to experiment to find out what does what. Some are self explanatory, but others are not at all intuitive and need some explanation. Anyway, that's my bitch. ------------------------------------------------------------
It's a valid one
I was one of the first group to buy the original GM V8 Predator. DiabloSport had already tested something like 50 to 100 C5's to get a baseline and determine what the Performance Tune should & shouldn't do.
Soooo, they had a lot of baseline/factory settings... but didn't include these figures in the manual. And be prepaired... DiabloSport will counter saying that they have an online "discussion group" you can get answers from.
Well, that ain't good enough.
Give me "the answers" upfront - without having to hold out my hand begging for info (and hoping that the info you receive from poster "Lil' Bobby" will be accurate).
Most of you know that I helped push the initial sales of the GM version of the Predator; as it did accomplish many things for m 2002 A4. But just like you said, I was forced to use the "trial & error" method of figuring things out.
And later there were new software updates given to the 1999 thru 2003 model (for example - dual RPM range AFR adjustment), but Diablosport claimed that there would be no software/firmware retrofit or upgrade for the initial model (geez guyz, we were the loyal customers that bought a "new" untested product... figured it out... and helped many others). Who makes a device like this (in todays computer world) that won't accept upgrades
.
Last edited by Mike Mercury; 06-17-2007 at 04:37 PM.
I was one of the first group to buy the original GM V8 Predator. DiabloSport had already tested something like 50 to 100 C5's to get a baseline and determine what the Performance Tune should & shouldn't do.
Soooo, they had a lot of baseline/factory settings... but didn't include these figures in the manual. And be prepaired... DiabloSport will counter saying that they have an online "discussion group" you can get answers from.
Well, that ain't good enough.
Give me "the answers" upfront - without having to hold out my hand begging for info (and hoping that the info you receive from poster "Lil' Bobby" will be accurate).
Most of you know that I helped push the initial sales of the GM version of the Predator; as it did accomplish many things for m 2002 A4. But just like you said, I was forced to use the "trial & error" method of figuring things out.
.
I hear you guys loud and clear.
As some of you may or may not know, Diablosport is under new ownership as of the last 4-5 months now. We have alot of plans including redoing all of our owners manuals.
Our support forums are new, but I personally try to answer evey question posted in the GM section. We have also expanded our phone support hours to 9:00AM to 7:00PM M-Th, and 9-5 on Fridays.
Our goal is to provide service to the customer that is second to none.
We like to think we offer the best tuning solution for the time and money invested, and the future release of our CMR single user software will complete the full package for the self tuner.
Quote:
And later there were new software updates given to the 1999 thru 2003 model (for example - dual RPM range AFR adjustment), but Diablosport claimed that there would be no software/firmware retrofit or upgrade for the initial model (geez guyz, we were the loyal customers that bought a "new" untested product... figured it out... and helped many others). Who makes a device like this (in todays computer world) that won't accept upgrades
This is new to me. If you have a U7198, no matter how old, it should be updateable. Please let me know if this is the case and I'd like to look into it for you.
FWIW, our new owners have begun some very forward thinking projects including looking into possibly offering a hardware update at a nominal fee for most of our older tools that were built with less memory than the current tools. This would bring these tools up to date with more memory, 5 custom tune support, datalogging capability, and faster read/write times.
BTW, Gene Wolf, thank you for posting that info, it will likely come in handy for some other users.
This is new to me. If you have a U7198, no matter how old, it should be updateable. Please let me know if this is the case and I'd like to look into it for you.
Thanks
Mike
I hear ya, but that's what would scare-off a potential customer... technical answers that contain "should be" or "it should work" or "give it a try".
The whole idea for buying a menu driven handheld (instead of a complex program like LS1 Edit) is to take the guesswork out of it.
I do applaud your recent effort here to help Predator owners. Since I finally got my 2002 C5 A4 coupe exactly where I want it... I'll now pass on any programmer upgrades. It took soooo long to trial & error to be where I am now, I don't want to introduce any remote possibility of things changing/need be redone.
But for your research, I will post the info. I found the original box, and it neither has the model number nor serial number printed on it. I went and got my Predator, and also it has no model number or serial number anywhere on the unit (though I purchased it brand new from RWD).
I powered it up and got this info through various screens:
Hardware rev: 1.0
Software rev: 1.03
Bios ver: 6.01
Mfgrd: 9/02
Serial number: 000040
And while your helping, is Johan still with the company ?
Last edited by Mike Mercury; 06-17-2007 at 07:52 PM.
I hear ya, but that's what would scare-off a potential customer... technical answers that contain "should be" or "it should work" or "give it a try".
The whole idea for buying a menu driven handheld (instead of a complex program like LS1 Edit) is to take the guesswork out of it.
I do applaud your recent effort here to help Predator owners. Since I finally got my 2002 C5 A4 coupe exactly where I want it... I'll now pass on any programmer upgrades. It took soooo long to trial & error to be where I am now, I don't want to introduce any remote possibility of things changing/need be redone.
But for your research, I will post the info. I found the original box, and it neither has the model number nor serial number printed on it. I went and got my Predator, and also it has no model number or serial number anywhere on the unit (though I purchased it brand new from RWD).
I powered it up and got this info through various screens:
Hardware rev: 1.0
Software rev: 1.03
Bios ver: 6.01
Mfgrd: 9/02
Serial number: 000040
And while your helping, is Johan still with the company ?
Interesting, and thanks for the info Mike.
I cannot imagine why anyone would have told you that tool was not upgradeable. I will look into this to satisfy my own curiosity.
Johan is still with us, tuning away on some Hemis as we speak...
Mike, I discussed this with Johan today, and he assured me that to his knowledge, there are no tools that were ever produced here that we will or can not update.
He said that even if your tool has old hardware, we would happily replace it with a new one for you.
I apologize if this is a day late, dollar short, but if you would like to make it happen, let me know and I will get you taken care of.
Corvette Store
predator - how to adjust shift points
That's what I call customer service. 
