Mc556

So recently, I sold my base C-5 and bought a Z06 locally. The previous owner had a clutch install with a McLeod twin disk.
while upgrading the brakes, I was doing some quick inspection as I would always do while a car is up in the air. I could hear some exhaust leakage and the clutch was a little loud.
So first could see one of the torque tube to bell housing bolts completely missing. I ordered a new gm bolt and because of the location I needed to drop the mid pipe. As soon as that was down several tunnel plate screws were missing and one straight up cross threaded half of the bolts length.
Next was the header bolts in the lower flange. Two lose on one and one lose on the other. When I say loose I mean zero tension.
Once I started checking every bolt in the torque tube all were under torque ranging from 1/2 turn to multiple rotations to get to 37ft pounds. Before someone asks I’m using a Snap On unit that is calibrated.
Every damn bolt and a couple are hard to get without a long extension. I’m going to go through everything.
I have the receipts for the shop the pervious owner gave me, but since I bought the car from someone else I’m not going to name that shop. 99% sure isn’t 100%. on if someone else touched the car once it left that shop. I know it didn’t because the guy I bought it from didn’t own a tool box.
Said shop has a great rep but it was 5 o’clock somewhere they say they did this job.

My point isn’t to bash the shop but just bust up the myth that these pro shops are some sort of Demi Gods that deserve $200 an hour etc. I’ve seen some crazy price quotes in my short time on this site.
I’m not offering a solution, but to preach learning at least how to check behind someone’s work as best as possible.
Anyway I’m kinda pissed off and ranting so have a great weekend everyone

redzg

Be sure to check your intake tube joints and muffler mounts as well. My ‘professional’ shop let the motor droop while doing the clutch and the air tube couplings had slipped. Right hand muffler aft mount had similar torque to your description.

Mc556

I’m finished for today but I’m going to pull the clutch inspection cover. I’ll check that as well.
The shop had wrapped the headers and they used hose clamps vs the metal zip ties
one was a little lose the other was just hanging and had a inch of slack meaning then never fastened it.
Makes no sense unless they wrapped headers after install.
The cradle etc appears to be good but I’m checking everything I can get my hands on.
If I were a shop owner I’d would be investing time into my mechanics. I’d also trust but verify. Like everyone I love my 1/4-1-2 impact drives but some **** just needs to be right.

Mc556

For you guys using a shop I think I have a way for you to “ interview “ them.
Ask them to show you their torque wrenches and watch to see how long it takes for them to find them. Then ask for calibration date.
Snap on puts a sticker with date when they do the calibration. If that super high speed mechanic that charges $6439 for a cam swap has a harbor freight wrench then walk away.
Foot Pounds , Newton Meters and Inch Pound lives matter.

hyperv6

Shops are only as good as the single tech working on your car.

they can have 100 great techs and one bad one.nTheyvseldom last long but with labor shortages many are hanging on.

killain

Well some shops charge $230.00 an hour, but pay $45.00 an hour. Just plain old Greed, they buy a shop and have a plan to retire in 10 years, or before they are charged in some half a$4 scam to rip of the public, and all we do is shake our heads, it's all we can do !

Mc556

No doubt.

Mc556

True, but it takes a lot of money to pay for a building and all that goes with equipping it and keeping it open.
There is some sort of happy medium in there I’m sure. Guys in my area would be damn happy at $45 an hour. That’s 100k with a few hours OT here and there. Of course shop labor is closer to $150 here.

hyperv6

This is the truth. Buildings and commercial property is not cheap.

the equipment is not no longer cheap. Racks, tools just a good tire machine can run over $20k that can change the larger and more expensive wheels anymore.

then you have to pay $15,000 to $25,000 for the tech info services that have the programing and info to tune or restore computers in the cars.

Then there is the extra training for the new products.

My buddy has a private shop and tries to do it all from tires and oil changes to engine replacement and rebuilds. He will tackle Jobs most places won’t.

He has a hard time keeping techs at $60k a year with medical. There is a lack of techs as many today don’t want to work on cars.

The other trouble is people get upset with labor rates. He to be honest charges less than most and often cheats himself by telling people I will get you next time and fix things for free.

Yet people complain.

Many come in want things fixed right now. He may be booked for two weeks. Some jobs like new. Tires pay little do he has even gotten away from tire work as larger jobs pay better. But he will still try to squeeze in old time customers.

He makes a decent living but he works for it. He is getting older now and at times wishes he got into something else.

Nothing is cheap anymore and being a mechanic is like a doctor where it cost money to do much and you have to buy all your own stuff if you own a shop.

Dealers even where they supply much to the tech have a hard time getting anyone to work. Flat rate can earn many $100k if they are good and quick. In some cases they are not that good or quick and that is where trouble comes from.

Since buying my Vet I find owners much different that other cars. In many forums or clubs we all worked on our cars. We re jilt and modified them.

Here I find more owners who just buy a car and let others fix it or in some cases have someone bolt on a supercharger for them. I know we have the hands on people too but just not as many.

Nothing wrong with either as it takes all kinds but there are some that just don’t see the other side of this having not turned wrenches at some point for a living.

hyperv6

I also keep the battery in as I will try to start the car now and then just go get it to cycle and warm up.

If the roads are clean I will take a short drive with both play cars.

I expect a mild winter here in Ohio this year. El Niño is in effect and that tends to keep us drier and warmer. We average less than one 80 degree day in Oct and this year we are up to 7.

I have one car put away and the Vette I have sone things to do yet and I will take a few more drives. With the number of 70 degree days we have had I still can have the top down.

Mc556

The hands on part is spot on.
I think this will change some with the C5’s changing hands to a different type of owner. The labor to work on a c5 has turned a lot of prospective owners away and to newer models. The C5 is a killer value for track and Autocross as well a good platform to built a higher Hp car if you’re doing your own work.

jackthelad

hyperv6, I've had my C5 since 1997 - it was built in the 1st week of '98 production. Just this year I have had a shop work on it for the first time. Just decided I am too old to be laying under cars any more.

hyperv6

Yes the C5 is the exception.

I was going to join a Corvette club until I found they were just a social club. Most of the people did not really work on their cars. They just drive C6 and 7’s to get together to eat or to a parade.

Then they have car shows where they really don’t clean their cars and don’t even open the hood. They vote for their buddy to win a trophy.

I find C1 to early C3 cars modt are now collectors or long time owners. They just don’t come out much.

Late C3 are original owners and guys that do work on their cars.

C4 are guys who want Cheap Corvettes but often have a hard time working on them as electrical issues and rust.

C5 is the hands on car for about 75%? C6 and C7 are 25% hands on.

I have gotten well acquainted with C6 because I have a hands off Corvette buddy.

I told my wife many C5 really are not in bad shape and some prices are low because of things like seat rock and other very simple fixes. People don’t want to pay for these repairs and sell cheap. I think one could do well flipping these cars if you can turn a wrench.

Vox Machina

When I worked at Tesla, i saw cars come in from another local shop with under-torqued suspension links, cross threaded bolts everywhere (I mostly blame the aluminum inserts they used than anything else) and a host of other problems.

The problem is is that there aren't enough techs and way too much work that doesn't pay enough labor for what they're actually dealing with. i had jobs come in that took our fastest tech an hour and a half, that paid half that in labor. Cars are insanely complex and I swear engineers intentionally design them to be impossible to work on.

I'm not justifying shoddy work in any way, but it's the reason things are the way they are.

cdee63

My C5 is the only car I have ever owned I paid someone else to work on, that was tough. No tools or a place to wrench was the reason, and I got a snap of reality with over $3G tabs each for those 2 occasions. But I look at it this way. I do know how much a bitch it is working on these, that part is obvious. I do know how much modern tools and diagnostic machines cost and what a good wrench needs to be happy. Factor all that in and dropping off a broken car and picking up a working one to me is well worth the cost IF the work is quality.

Burnt C6

I do some of my work and have others do things. No way was I doing the cam and blower install or the transmission. Don't have the time to do it and didn't want it torn apart for months in my garage while I got the time. I'm pretty picky about who i let work on her.

Missileboy

Same here-taking my car to the guys who do this all the time for my Supercharger install. I did my brakes all four corners, new brake lines, new shocks and a bunch of other stuff like usual services etc. but for the boost and dyno tune, I want it done by someone who knows the deal-

I took my van to a NTW for a new set of tires a few weeks ago. Long story short, I had to reset the TPMS as the tech had no idea how to. He said just drive it for 20 mins and it will clear, not on a FORD Transit buddy-You literally have to LET AIR out of each tire after you put it in TPMS Learning mode, then air them back up to proper pressure. Then I had to lay on the ground and show the kid (young tech) how to stash the spare back up in the holder. And he didn't even have the tires inflated properly when I did the reset. I hate incompetence and excuses. When I got home, I pulled out my torque wrench and double checked all 4 corners.

I hear this alot of places now, not just auto related stuff. Finding good help is a bummer

acroy

Agree....
Shops are shops, anyone doing custom work in a hurry is going to miss things. I think what separates the good from poor shops is 1) the right tools/parts, 2) doing it 'right'; 3) double checking everything.
The hose clamp instead of metal zip tie is a violation of #1.
Letting the driveling 'droop' violates #2
Anything loose/missing violates #3
I've had all 3 of those on the various cars I've owned over the years. On my current Vette, one example was the hard brake lines to the rear brakes were all twisted to hell; one or more shops had really goobered those up at some point.

hyperv6

We had a customer years ago that would fully restore a car but bring them to us for service.

I did not mind as they were mostly 30’s Ford coupes and convertibles. Also an early 50’s Lincoln.

I learned much on those flat heads.

He also woul let me take them for a drive.

That Lincoln was like a truck.

Also had a guy with military vehicles. Learned a lot there and agsin got to drive around a number of Military vehicles.

We had an old guy that worked for us. We dressed him up Luke Omar Bradly and I took him for a ride down town at lunch in a Power wagon Command car.

The car had been in Pattons group from Sicily to Germany. I would love to know who used it.

c5arlen

Goodness... This subject a downer! Who is John Galt.