Best c5 cost to performance clutch for a daily driver?
12-17-2018, 10:51 PM
#21
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Just to clarify, all LS motors have a flywheel with holes the holes are for weights, My LS motor has three clocking points ( three weights ) Most have weights some dont.. a flywheel with one weight is less of an issue but it is still an issue since that weight was added to zero out the motor in its factory balance test.
12-20-2018, 08:03 PM
#22
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There is no such thing as acheiving a perfect zero balance, especially on an engine. Every engine vibrates a certain amount. Mounting the engine to keep the occupants from feeling those vibrations is a major issue every car manufacturer addresses when designing a new configuration.
I suggest you contact Bill Curlee if you think you currently have a drivetrain vibration and want to get help from someone who has helped multiple people fix their issues. Basically, I believe he recommends using a washer and putting it onto the pressure plate bolts one at a time trying it each time until you figure out the side that needs weight before further fine tuning it from there. However, talk to him because I'm sure he's got much more detailed advice.
Currently, there are 2 schools of though on how to replace a clutch.
#1 is to replace it with a new assembly that is as close to neutral balanced as possible. It's recommended to get a shop you trust to check it because you can easily buy one that is not well balanced.
#2 is to match balance to clutch to match the stock take off. Basically make it as close as possible to the one being removed. This is the safest way, matching them means you will get the same result as you had before the swap.
Some of the early factory service manuals listed moving the weights from the old flywheel to the new one, but that step was then removed from the manuals. So, GM themselves had a good enough reason to doubt that procedure that they wiped it from the service manuals.
Since you have vibrations right now, I would suggest you take steps to troubleshoot why and also make sure any shop pulling the clutch knows to mark it's position on the crank so you can balance the new to match the old.
Last edited by lionelhutz; 12-20-2018 at 08:06 PM.
12-20-2018, 08:56 PM
#23
Melting Slicks
Decided to do it myself at home, but still have not done because there is no clutch slipping, it's more of a issue of poor hydraulics that make shifting difficult at times.
Anyways I bought a nice hydraulic transmission floor jack from harbor freight that tilts in all directions, supports 800 pounds, to help and also some furniture cart/dollies.
I just recently read/and learned about rebuilding torque tube here at Corvette Forum.
Also might need to get my transmission rebuilt and it seems RKT56 is the place to send it to, but I'm not sure about shipping a transmission from Arizona to Maryland and back, sounds complicated and expensive.
Would love to have RKT56 4.10 differential while doing all this drive train work.
Do you have a garage to work on it in?
12-20-2018, 11:28 PM
#24
Racer
Thread Starter
I got a quote for 2300-2500 at a shop in Phoenix, including parts clutch kit, pilot bearing and new slave cylinder and install remote bleeder (I told him I would buy the remote bleeder) including tax.
Decided to do it myself at home, but still have not done because there is no clutch slipping, it's more of a issue of poor hydraulics that make shifting difficult at times.
Anyways I bought a nice hydraulic transmission floor jack from harbor freight that tilts in all directions, supports 800 pounds, to help and also some furniture cart/dollies.
I just recently read/and learned about rebuilding torque tube here at Corvette Forum.
Also might need to get my transmission rebuilt and it seems RKT56 is the place to send it to, but I'm not sure about shipping a transmission from Arizona to Maryland and back, sounds complicated and expensive.
Would love to have RKT56 4.10 differential while doing all this drive train work.
Do you have a garage to work on it in?
12-21-2018, 12:49 AM
#25
Instructor
Been running my centorforce duel friction for 5 years now no issues. Also have tick master. Installed when my car was bolt one with 150 shot. Now heads,cam,intake and 150 shot. It is real drivable but holds the power. Only had a little bucking on first few 100 miles. Then got smooth when broke in.
12-21-2018, 12:37 PM
#26
Correct, it isn't true. they are externally balanced and have balance points on the flywheel where weights are added. Its called clocking the flywheel. External balance is a cost to manufacture process to reduce cost. In the Corvette service manual it tells you that you need to use a New flywheel clutch assembly assembly. The factory flywheel for an LS1 like the 99 in this thread but you can go with a heavier Z06 clutch and flywheel assembly which also has clock balance holes. If you use the factory LS! clutch assembly you do not need to loosen the bell housing, if you use the Z06 clutch you do.. the flywheel is heavier.. it is also recommended to use upgraded hydraulics ( slave and master ). It is very specific about noting where the weights on the original flywheel are clocked so you can put them in the same position on the new flywheel..
You can do whatever you want of course, but some of us actually know something about this car..
Wont argue it especially in open forum
Bill aka ET
You can do whatever you want of course, but some of us actually know something about this car..
Wont argue it especially in open forum
Bill aka ET
Back in 2004 when the Miami GM Dealer installed an aftermarket clutch in my 2002 Z06 the engine was "vibrating" badly between 2000 rpm until 4000 rpm...
Fortunately the OEM assembly was still there and the aftermarket clutch got "Matched / Balanced" and everything went back to normal...
The unbalanced weight was in the 500 grams according to the balancing shop.
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12-21-2018, 01:04 PM
#28
Christian
Last edited by miami993c297; 12-21-2018 at 01:08 PM. Reason: spelling..
12-22-2018, 10:20 AM
#29
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Ask me how I know about this...
Back in 2004 when the Miami GM Dealer installed an aftermarket clutch in my 2002 Z06 the engine was "vibrating" badly between 2000 rpm until 4000 rpm...
Fortunately the OEM assembly was still there and the aftermarket clutch got "Matched / Balanced" and everything went back to normal...
The unbalanced weight was in the 500 grams according to the balancing shop.
Back in 2004 when the Miami GM Dealer installed an aftermarket clutch in my 2002 Z06 the engine was "vibrating" badly between 2000 rpm until 4000 rpm...
Fortunately the OEM assembly was still there and the aftermarket clutch got "Matched / Balanced" and everything went back to normal...
The unbalanced weight was in the 500 grams according to the balancing shop.
Matched balanced old vs new.Balancing units are g-mm, so 500g-mm could mean 3g of weight 167mm or 6.5" out from the center of the flywheel. A lot different then thinking there is 500g at that distance.
12-22-2018, 12:00 PM
#31
Melting Slicks
It was a independent shop. I think he had never done a C5 clutch and was telling me to let him know ahead of time because it's a big job, basically to schedule other jobs out because this one is such a big job.
Never used him, it was someone I met because he had some parts for sale and some for free for old SBC and BBC and other GM stuff, showed me his classic Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible I think 1970, had a 67-69 Camaro and Firebird, 1969 El Camino, 1973 Camaro, almost all fully restored then I showed him my C5 and he mentioned his wife had a red C5 automatic, so I felt he was trustworthy.
I was just curious what it would cost.
Maybe I'll call some other shops, just for a idea, but at this point I think I could do as good as anyone else if not better, get new assembly balanced from old (pretty sure still factory clutch) rebuild torque tube, of course I will work slower doing it on jack stands.
Never used him, it was someone I met because he had some parts for sale and some for free for old SBC and BBC and other GM stuff, showed me his classic Oldsmobile Cutlass convertible I think 1970, had a 67-69 Camaro and Firebird, 1969 El Camino, 1973 Camaro, almost all fully restored then I showed him my C5 and he mentioned his wife had a red C5 automatic, so I felt he was trustworthy.
I was just curious what it would cost.
Maybe I'll call some other shops, just for a idea, but at this point I think I could do as good as anyone else if not better, get new assembly balanced from old (pretty sure still factory clutch) rebuild torque tube, of course I will work slower doing it on jack stands.
12-22-2018, 12:10 PM
#32
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St. Jude Donor '03-'04
Its an 8 hour job. @ whatever the rate.. dealers are charging 100 to 110 an hour. Some good performance shops are 80 to 100 hr. A Balanced flywheel clutch assembly is 500 dollars ( flywheel, clutch pressure plate pilot bearing ) ( LS7 balanced assembly ) this assembly is matched marked to be a single zero balanced assembly, with match marks ( usually green dots )
new Z06 upgraded hydraulics are a must. another 250..00
Parts750/800
labor @ 100 an hour 800 dollars
about 1600 dollars' for a shop that knows what they are doing.
The LSX rotating mass is infernally balanced at assembly to get it close , but is externally balanced at final production. via the flywheel. . The weights are there and when they are not there, the motor will vibrate.( some flywheels do not need balance weights but most do.
Not to argue with anyone but Ive been doing this for 40 years. Its always the wanna bee's who throw a spin on the facts.. You have to know something about this motor before you can give advice about it Obviously many are not..
Bill
aka ET
new Z06 upgraded hydraulics are a must. another 250..00
Parts750/800
labor @ 100 an hour 800 dollars
about 1600 dollars' for a shop that knows what they are doing.
The LSX rotating mass is infernally balanced at assembly to get it close , but is externally balanced at final production. via the flywheel. . The weights are there and when they are not there, the motor will vibrate.( some flywheels do not need balance weights but most do.
Not to argue with anyone but Ive been doing this for 40 years. Its always the wanna bee's who throw a spin on the facts.. You have to know something about this motor before you can give advice about it Obviously many are not..
Bill
aka ET
12-22-2018, 03:15 PM
#33
Melting Slicks
So I called a shop in Queen Creek and he said $1618.08 out the door including parts labor and tax, new flywheel clutch disc pressure plate throwout bearing and pilot bearing.
I then said I want the slave cylinder replaced too, he said "doesn't look like that takes much labor time" and said $1953.37 with new slave and tax, everything.
Before mentioning slave cylinder he said book said right under 8 hours labor.
I then said I want the slave cylinder replaced too, he said "doesn't look like that takes much labor time" and said $1953.37 with new slave and tax, everything.
Before mentioning slave cylinder he said book said right under 8 hours labor.
12-22-2018, 05:34 PM
#36
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St. Jude Donor '05
I got a quote for 2300-2500 at a shop in Phoenix, including parts clutch kit, pilot bearing and new slave cylinder and install remote bleeder (I told him I would buy the remote bleeder) including tax.
Decided to do it myself at home, but still have not done because there is no clutch slipping, it's more of a issue of poor hydraulics that make shifting difficult at times.
Anyways I bought a nice hydraulic transmission floor jack from harbor freight that tilts in all directions, supports 800 pounds, to help and also some furniture cart/dollies.
I just recently read/and learned about rebuilding torque tube here at Corvette Forum.
Also might need to get my transmission rebuilt and it seems RKT56 is the place to send it to, but I'm not sure about shipping a transmission from Arizona to Maryland and back, sounds complicated and expensive.
Would love to have RKT56 4.10 differential while doing all this drive train work.
Do you have a garage to work on it in?
LUK is just fine for what you wanna do, nothing fancy needed. I dont trust half the aftermarket stuff out there.
Last edited by cv67; 12-22-2018 at 05:35 PM.
12-22-2018, 06:07 PM
#39
Melting Slicks
12-22-2018, 06:31 PM
#40
Supporting Vendor
That's a cake walk job for us and would love to knock it out for you. We are $110/hr and stock many parts for these. Including remote bleeder, torque tube couplers etc so we don't get held up if yours are failing