MSG C5

Thanks. I've heard great things about Hawk pads, but one negative I've read (online) is that the ferro carbon material used with Hawk pads may stain paint or cause pitting in polished aluminum wheels, like my CCW 505As.

I'm also intalling a set of Baer Eradispeed +2 rotors and per earlier threads and ET's input and secondary proof of his show-car rotors, the OEM GM AC Delco semi-metallics don't stain the rotors. I'm not sure if Hawk pads, with their ferro carbon material, will stain the rotors like ceramics do.

I have an older set of Baer Eradispeed rotors in the original sizes currently installed on my 2004 vert. At the time of installation, the shop talked me into a set of GM Ceramic pads because I was sold at the time on the "less dust is better" model. Personally, I've never liked the feel, but I've lived with it. It feels more like a grinding than stopping and they do squeak at times. Mostly on very hot Florida summer days, that's why I'm looking forward to returning to semi-metallic. Now the question is which semi-metallic.

BTW, anyone looking for OEM GM AC Delco semi-metallic pads, shop around online. I've seen price differences of $150 for a full set ranging between $120 and $270!

While we're talking brakes (Sorry Rick, don't mean to hijack), I appreciate any advice on choosing my SS braided hose kit. Please see this thread...

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/c5-g...questions.html

troyguitar

Most ceramic pads work fine on these cars for street use. The pedal feel is terrible and you have to press down harder but your actual stopping distance isn't going to change.

Tires will affect your stopping distance more than anything in a C5.

WKMCD

I ran Carbotech 1521's in my C5. They are a ceramic base but don't feel like it and they do stop the car very well on the street.

The other advantage is what little dust there is is pale gray and non-corrosive so the don't tear up your wheels. I have a set for the C7 I'm putting in this week.

Highly recommended.

Adam@Amp'dAutosport.com

I would look at the 1521 for a great street pad.

Carbotech™ Bobcat 1521™ The Carbotech Bobcat 1521™ is our high performance street compound that is our most successful compound. The Bobcat compound is known for its awesome release and modulation, along with unmatched rotor friendliness. Like our AX™ & XP™ line of compounds, Bobcat 1521™ is a Ceramic based friction material offering minimal rotor damage and non-corrosive dust. Bobcat 1521™ offers outstanding performance, even when cold, low dusting and low noise with an excellent initial bite. This compound’s virtually perfect linear torque production provides incredible braking force without ABS intervention. Bobcat 1521™ operating range starts out at ambient and goes up to 900°F. Bobcat 1521™ is suitable for ALL street cars, perfect for your tow vehicle, police cruiser. The Bobcat 1521™ compound has been found to last two-three times longer than OE pads you can purchase at a dealership or national retailer. That’s one of the beauties of Carbotech Ceramic brake compounds. Bobcat 1521™ is NOT recommended for any track use.

F $140 R $121

radar502

I have Hawk ceramic pads on my 04 Z all around ..The feel just not right ..Around town Ok but at a little speed ..no... has Low dust for sure that's nice .. Have run HPSs big dust and right the dust is bad for paint and gets all over the place but will stop ... These pads are new not happy with them looking for something else ..I guess wil have to deal with the BLACK dust I guess would be better that a clean wrecked 04...

MSG C5

I'm starting to fall into the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" mode with the AC Delco semi-metallics pads. I know the braking felt better compared to the AC Delco ceramics I'm currently running.

I definitely have this approach with my battery as I'm on my second AC Delco battery in 10 years with no issues. I replaced the first one after seven, trouble-free years just because I felt I needed to and didn't want to take a chance on 8 years in the Florida heat.

Corvette_Ed

Yes, the stopping distance will most definitely change when compared to a semi-metallic pad. If you have proof otherwise please post it, otherwise this statement does not hold up to the many studies done on the topic.


With cars that have ABS, the tires don't play a role in stopping unless it's on slick pavement.

bighank

The semi-metallic pads don't fade after hard braking and DO stop the car when a panic stop is involved. If you drive at 30 MPH and put no miles on the car go for ceramic. If you drive it like you stole it go for SM and just clean the wheels occasionally.

MSG C5

The California Mini Dash Duster works fantastic for cleaning up brake dust on CCW wheels!

Corvette_Ed

They have one specifically for wheels too that allows you to spray it off with a hose to clean it when you're done.

troyguitar

ABS does not make tires irrelevant.

In fact, being able to engage ABS is what makes pads and rotors irrelevant.

Corvette_Ed

This makes absolutely no sense at all.

I'm still waiting for proof of stopping distance.

onspeed

ET,

I was under the impression after reading what lots of experts had to say that braking distance on a single panic stop of a given car was limited by the grip of the tires. So long as there's enough clamping force to lock the wheels, braking distance should not change with different pads, larger rotors, etc. I've read lots of articles in magazines as well as online articles and even an SAE journal article, that have made this claim.

Just wondering if you can provide an explanation why ceramic would yield a longer braking distance on a single stop?

If we're taking about repetitive stops where brake temp, fade, and etc plays a factor then for sure I'd agree that ceramic is not the way to go, and most articles back that up as well.

donald4972

That's just incorrect! The pedal feel is indistinguishable from before, with stock pads. I've had both kinds on both C4, and C5.
You absolutely do not have to push down harder on the pedal for braking. You either don't know what you are talking about, or your's were installed incorrectly. If you've ever even driven a Corvette, with both kinds of pads....

They (ceramic pads) are quiet, and stop just fine, for street use. Reduction in brake dust is significant.

Don

troyguitar

All-season tires stopping in 83.6-86.4 feet in the dry:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=177

Max performance summers doing 78.6-79.1 feet:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=174

and Extreme summers 74.5-77.2 feet:

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=172

All on the same car and same pavement during the same summer, unfortunately Tire Rack doesn't test tires across performance categories on the same day so it's not 100% apples to apples.

I can't find any test data on brake pads except this one quickly:

http://blog.caranddriver.com/perform...c-yellowstuff/

It doesn't apply to street driving though as they're averaging multiple back to back 100 mph stops. Even with that, the 4 pads start out very close in the first cycle which is the only cycle that is even close to relevant for a street car. Notice, though, that the required pedal force varies WAY more than the actual stopping distance. The high-friction HP+ requires as little as 12 lbs to do a .5g stop and the lower friction overheated HPS in later cycles takes 24 lbs to do the same. Double the pedal force yet the panic-stopping distance is only 2.7% longer.

The metallics feeling better at light to moderate loads does NOT mean they perform any better in a street ABS panic stop.

QCVette

I have had good ceramic pads and bad ones. (for both stopping and for dust)

I have had good semi-metallic pads and bad ones. (for both stopping and for dust)

I was responsible for an automobile manufacturer's brakes about 20 years ago. At that time ceramics were quite new (or at least not as common) and were not as good. The materials science in brake pads was changing rapidly then and I expect it has continued. I suspect that the ceramics now are much better than they were then. The ceramic used in pads can be as low as about 4% of the pad material. It is used as the structure for the pad, but the ceramic is not the only material in the pad that provides the friction.

There have been statements about the coefficient of friction, but I do not see them published for comparisons. The general pad friction grading (required to be on the edge of the pad) is so crude as to be ineffective in comparisons except to weed out the real junk.

Many of the worst graded pads are semi-metallic. Many of the pads used for racing are semi-metallic.

I have seen some ceramic pads perform better than OEM semi-metallic pads (for both stopping and for dust)

My point is that it is not a blanket statement to say the semi-metallic pads stop better than ceramic pads or vice-versa.

MSG C5

That's why it's important to research all options. Every application and every need is different.

Part of my concern is that the GM OEM ceramic pads can stain Baer Eradispeed rotors. Since part of the attraction of these rotors is the bling they provide in addition to the improved performance, I want to keep the rotors looking as good as they perform. I don't mind the additional brake dust if the pads perform well and don't discolor my rotors, pit my polished wheels or damage my paint.

Corvette_Ed

My mistake on the tires; I hadn't thought about friction coefficients.

This does not include the pads we're talking about, the GM semi-metallics. The article is only about aftermarket pads.

n8dogg

Ceramics are fine for a street driven car. If you like to drive spiritedly expect some fade much sooner than semi metallic.

dbgoodwin

Tires most definitely play a role in stopping distance. A friend did a BBK on his 350z, and his stopping distance was identical to stock brakes after. If your brakes are strong enough to lock up the wheels, adding more brake power will do nothing to help. It's just like traction, if you can't get traction until 4th gear, adding more power isn't gonna help your 1/4 mile time at all, better tires will.