So what is the deal with Max Performance Summer Tires?
03-09-2014, 10:55 PM
#1
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '13, '15
So what is the deal with Max Performance Summer Tires?
My 2004 Coupe is a DD 3 seasons of the year, but it isn't completely out of the question for me to take it out in winter when it is just a cold dry day, even close to or slightly below freezing. Because of this I was strongly considering the Continental Extreme Contact DWS (Dry,Wet,Snow). But their sizes are limited and I'm upgrading to 18/19 sizes at the same time.
When it comes to the disclaimer on Summer tires, stating not to be driven in near freezing temps, what are the reasons and risks for this? I'm assuming it is at least in part due to the rubber compound. Is this just a general statement for liability reasons, or could I compromise the integrity of the tire here?
I may be forced to look at Michelin Pilot Super Sports instead if I can't get what I need to fit the rims I'm buying. I'll be on 19x11's rear and the Contis only go to a 295/30/19. While TireRack shows this size can accept a 9-11" rim, the rim width recommended is 10.5" and I don't want it stretched. Interestingly enough the section width on this size is actually 12.2". The same size Michelin Pilot SS is 11.9". I don't know if that makes a difference at all?
When it comes to the disclaimer on Summer tires, stating not to be driven in near freezing temps, what are the reasons and risks for this? I'm assuming it is at least in part due to the rubber compound. Is this just a general statement for liability reasons, or could I compromise the integrity of the tire here?
I may be forced to look at Michelin Pilot Super Sports instead if I can't get what I need to fit the rims I'm buying. I'll be on 19x11's rear and the Contis only go to a 295/30/19. While TireRack shows this size can accept a 9-11" rim, the rim width recommended is 10.5" and I don't want it stretched. Interestingly enough the section width on this size is actually 12.2". The same size Michelin Pilot SS is 11.9". I don't know if that makes a difference at all?
03-09-2014, 11:10 PM
#2
Race Director
This comes from the Tirerack website:
WHAT IS THE WORST DRIVING CONDITION I WILL ENCOUNTER?
If you use more than one set of tires and wheels (for example, summer tires in summer and snow tires in winter), you can select tires that exactly meet your diverse needs. If you use one set of tires for every season, you may get good performance under many conditions, but you will compromise your vehicle's performance when the conditions are at their worst.
So the important thing to do is to select your tires so that they match the worst driving condition you expect to encounter. When you're stuck in the snow or in the mud because your tires don't have the appropriate capabilities, you'll curse their limited performance in your worst driving condition...and you'll quickly forget how smooth and quiet they were at other times!
WHAT ARE THE TYPICAL DRIVING CONDITIONS I WILL ENCOUNTER?
If you only drive around your neighborhood and a "long trip" is one that's just down to the corner convenience mart, almost any tire will do. But if you drive your vehicle on congested city streets and expressways during rush hour you will be better served by more responsive tires. If you drive extensively on the interstates you will want quiet, smooth riding, long wearing tires. Or if you like to drive quickly on twisting roads or through the mountains you will want good handling tires. And if you drive on the track or in autocross events, you will want the best competition tires available.
BALANCING THE REQUIREMENTS OF YOUR DRIVING CONDITIONS.
If your worst driving conditions and your typical conditions are similar, one set of tires will be all you need. If you live at the edge of the snowbelt and infrequently get snow you may want to select an all-season tire. If your SUV is used as the family's station wagon and driven on the road all of the time, overly aggressive light truck tires aren't for you (unless you really like the "look").
If your worst driving condition occurs frequently (you drive through snow all winter) and is dissimilar to your typical driving condition (you commute to work on the expressway during the week and spend your weekends at the beach), you may want to consider selecting two sets of tires for your vehicle. Each set will be designed to master the specific conditions without compromising your driving satisfaction at the extremes. While purchasing two sets of tires may appear expensive, the set you're not using won't wear while you are using the other set, and combined they'll provide longer total wear than either set could individually!
If you use more than one set of tires and wheels (for example, summer tires in summer and snow tires in winter), you can select tires that exactly meet your diverse needs. If you use one set of tires for every season, you may get good performance under many conditions, but you will compromise your vehicle's performance when the conditions are at their worst.
So the important thing to do is to select your tires so that they match the worst driving condition you expect to encounter. When you're stuck in the snow or in the mud because your tires don't have the appropriate capabilities, you'll curse their limited performance in your worst driving condition...and you'll quickly forget how smooth and quiet they were at other times!
WHAT ARE THE TYPICAL DRIVING CONDITIONS I WILL ENCOUNTER?
If you only drive around your neighborhood and a "long trip" is one that's just down to the corner convenience mart, almost any tire will do. But if you drive your vehicle on congested city streets and expressways during rush hour you will be better served by more responsive tires. If you drive extensively on the interstates you will want quiet, smooth riding, long wearing tires. Or if you like to drive quickly on twisting roads or through the mountains you will want good handling tires. And if you drive on the track or in autocross events, you will want the best competition tires available.
BALANCING THE REQUIREMENTS OF YOUR DRIVING CONDITIONS.
If your worst driving conditions and your typical conditions are similar, one set of tires will be all you need. If you live at the edge of the snowbelt and infrequently get snow you may want to select an all-season tire. If your SUV is used as the family's station wagon and driven on the road all of the time, overly aggressive light truck tires aren't for you (unless you really like the "look").
If your worst driving condition occurs frequently (you drive through snow all winter) and is dissimilar to your typical driving condition (you commute to work on the expressway during the week and spend your weekends at the beach), you may want to consider selecting two sets of tires for your vehicle. Each set will be designed to master the specific conditions without compromising your driving satisfaction at the extremes. While purchasing two sets of tires may appear expensive, the set you're not using won't wear while you are using the other set, and combined they'll provide longer total wear than either set could individually!
03-09-2014, 11:32 PM
#3
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '13, '15
Was just reading on Michelin's site too...
I underlined the last part...guess that answers my question along with the quote from TireRack. Seems I can get away with Summer tires given the conditions I'm driving in.
So with that out of the way...now I just need to figure out what size tires I should go with. Anyone know if the section width makes any difference for fit on the rim? Does a larger section width allow less stretch?
Summer: These tires are primarily designed for high-performance vehicles and provide optimized dry and wet performance levels in a temperate environment. Summer tires are designed for year round usage but should not be used during the winter season where temperatures are colder and approach freezing consistently as their performance would be less than optimal.
So with that out of the way...now I just need to figure out what size tires I should go with. Anyone know if the section width makes any difference for fit on the rim? Does a larger section width allow less stretch?
03-10-2014, 11:36 AM
#4
Race Director
Give Tirerack a call. Their sales people are very knowledgeable about upsizing, but may not have direct experience with every possible combination of wheel/tire combo.
Personally, I would keep an eye on wheel weight. If I upsize, I makes sure that the combo never exceeds OEM (unsprung) weight.
Personally, I would keep an eye on wheel weight. If I upsize, I makes sure that the combo never exceeds OEM (unsprung) weight.
03-10-2014, 02:17 PM
#5
They did, indeed, perform well in the summer but the performance degraded quickly in temperatures close to freezing.
After one low temperature, low speed spinout that took me off-roading I got some three season tires.
No more low temperature spinouts now.
dan k.
03-13-2014, 09:43 AM
#6
Pro
I've driven my max performances tires when the temperature is approaching freezing and I can say I've noticed a big difference. They are much slicker than normal. That is because the compound gets hard in the cold. They break loose much easier and I've noticed a little slide when I take a spirited corner.
This is opinion, but I do not think you hurt the tire by driving it in the cold but your car may not be as safe. What bothered me the most after experiencing the extra slipperiness of my tires was thinking about how they would react if I had to do an emergency maneuver or emergency stop.
For me, I do not have an extra set of winter tires, I have a winter vehicle!
This is opinion, but I do not think you hurt the tire by driving it in the cold but your car may not be as safe. What bothered me the most after experiencing the extra slipperiness of my tires was thinking about how they would react if I had to do an emergency maneuver or emergency stop.
For me, I do not have an extra set of winter tires, I have a winter vehicle!
03-13-2014, 12:23 PM
#7
Race Director
the pss is good to about 45 deg
below that it starts to fall off pretty quick in traction, when you're in the 30s, you know it. i briefly drove them on a 27deg day this past year and they were sketchy, even dry.
then again, unless you have a dedicated winter tire, an "all season" would be sketchy too
the pss is an insanely good street tire and would be my top pick for weekend autocross and mostly street driving. it has one of the largest working temperature ranges of any tire i have encountered, roughly 45-160. if michelin based them off the intermediate race tire i would not be surprised
the biggest problem with all season tires on a corvette is that traction is so bad all the time. you won't have any sports car enjoyment when you're traction limited.
if for some reason you drive in freezing/light snow buy some wagon wheels and a set of real winter snow tires. then you will have traction in the cold / bad conditions
if you only have one car now i would suggest the pss on your main wheels and buying a $2500 mid 90s jeep cherokee for the snow days and or winter tires on another set of wheels if you don't have room to park a beater
below that it starts to fall off pretty quick in traction, when you're in the 30s, you know it. i briefly drove them on a 27deg day this past year and they were sketchy, even dry.
then again, unless you have a dedicated winter tire, an "all season" would be sketchy too
the pss is an insanely good street tire and would be my top pick for weekend autocross and mostly street driving. it has one of the largest working temperature ranges of any tire i have encountered, roughly 45-160. if michelin based them off the intermediate race tire i would not be surprised
the biggest problem with all season tires on a corvette is that traction is so bad all the time. you won't have any sports car enjoyment when you're traction limited.
if for some reason you drive in freezing/light snow buy some wagon wheels and a set of real winter snow tires. then you will have traction in the cold / bad conditions
if you only have one car now i would suggest the pss on your main wheels and buying a $2500 mid 90s jeep cherokee for the snow days and or winter tires on another set of wheels if you don't have room to park a beater
Last edited by racebum; 03-13-2014 at 12:27 PM.
03-13-2014, 12:34 PM
#8
Race Director
Summer performance tires have a higher rubber content than all-season or winter tires. This makes them sticky in the summer, but as rubber hardens as temperatures near freezing these tires become hard, and as a result, slick. This will result in unintentional loss of traction at even low speeds.
I have summer tires on the rear of my coupe, but I live in Texas where temps are normally well above freezing, even during the winter.
I have summer tires on the rear of my coupe, but I live in Texas where temps are normally well above freezing, even during the winter.
03-13-2014, 08:46 PM
#9
Le Mans Master
I've driven my max performances tires when the temperature is approaching freezing and I can say I've noticed a big difference. They are much slicker than normal. That is because the compound gets hard in the cold. They break loose much easier and I've noticed a little slide when I take a spirited corner.
This is opinion, but I do not think you hurt the tire by driving it in the cold but your car may not be as safe. ....
This is opinion, but I do not think you hurt the tire by driving it in the cold but your car may not be as safe. ....
Max Performance Summer tires get slippery when cold. One particular incident comes to mind. I had an on ramp on my daily commute that was a right hand turn, a left hand turn and then another right hand turn. I usually took them a bit quick. When the weather turned cold (and still dry) the rear end kicked out on the left hand turn. I counter steered and kept in the throttle and drifted most of the way up the hill to the last right hand turn. It kind of surprised me because that normally didn't happen when warmer.
I don't think you will hurt the tires by driving on them. However, don't plan on pushing them too much. If you drive cautiously they will work although on this forum people will say why did you get a Corvette if you can't drive it hard. However, you can still drive it.
03-13-2014, 09:24 PM
#10
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I know they can be fun in cold temps but the real question is how do they handle braking at normal speeds?
FTR - I don't drive my car on "bad" days, I have other vehicles for that.
FTR - I don't drive my car on "bad" days, I have other vehicles for that.
03-13-2014, 11:25 PM
#11
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '13, '15
Thanks everyone. It all makes sense to me that they would be slicker in the cold. Just wanted to make sure there was no damage to be had. There was one Pirelli tire that stated something along the line of it voided warranty as it could cause stress cracks.
And just to be clear, I have a dedicated winter car (2003 GMC Envoy 4x4). But with these long winters in Chicago, it sure is nice to pull the Vette out when it's 35 and sunny. I don't drive hard...well okay, I do like to push it sometimes. But I have no problem keeping my right foot in check and playing it safe too.
Given the wheel sizes I need for the rims I just ordered, I'm pretty much limited to the Michelin PSS, so that's what I'll end up with. At the end of the day it was more logical to consider purchasing a tire that would perform great for 7-8 months of the year versus those less than 5 days in the winter it may come out.
And just to be clear, I have a dedicated winter car (2003 GMC Envoy 4x4). But with these long winters in Chicago, it sure is nice to pull the Vette out when it's 35 and sunny. I don't drive hard...well okay, I do like to push it sometimes. But I have no problem keeping my right foot in check and playing it safe too.
Given the wheel sizes I need for the rims I just ordered, I'm pretty much limited to the Michelin PSS, so that's what I'll end up with. At the end of the day it was more logical to consider purchasing a tire that would perform great for 7-8 months of the year versus those less than 5 days in the winter it may come out.
03-14-2014, 12:12 AM
#12
Race Director
Thanks everyone. It all makes sense to me that they would be slicker in the cold. Just wanted to make sure there was no damage to be had. There was one Pirelli tire that stated something along the line of it voided warranty as it could cause stress cracks.
And just to be clear, I have a dedicated winter car (2003 GMC Envoy 4x4). But with these long winters in Chicago, it sure is nice to pull the Vette out when it's 35 and sunny. I don't drive hard...well okay, I do like to push it sometimes. But I have no problem keeping my right foot in check and playing it safe too.
Given the wheel sizes I need for the rims I just ordered, I'm pretty much limited to the Michelin PSS, so that's what I'll end up with. At the end of the day it was more logical to consider purchasing a tire that would perform great for 7-8 months of the year versus those less than 5 days in the winter it may come out.
And just to be clear, I have a dedicated winter car (2003 GMC Envoy 4x4). But with these long winters in Chicago, it sure is nice to pull the Vette out when it's 35 and sunny. I don't drive hard...well okay, I do like to push it sometimes. But I have no problem keeping my right foot in check and playing it safe too.
Given the wheel sizes I need for the rims I just ordered, I'm pretty much limited to the Michelin PSS, so that's what I'll end up with. At the end of the day it was more logical to consider purchasing a tire that would perform great for 7-8 months of the year versus those less than 5 days in the winter it may come out.
not much of a concern leaving the garage for an hour or two but it could be if the car sits outside and it's 20 or colder for a week. micro cracks develop in the rubber and you usually notice when traction is down next spring
03-14-2014, 01:31 PM
#13
Melting Slicks
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St. Jude Donor '13, '15
Well, I guess I can hang on to my OEM thinspokes then and mount them up for the winter hibernation. Wouldhelp prevent flat spots to the new stuff too.
03-14-2014, 04:04 PM
#14
Le Mans Master
03-14-2014, 06:15 PM
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03-15-2014, 12:36 AM
#16
Safety Car
I just got some conti extreme contact dw tires, and at 35 degrees I can go full throttle in first without even the slightest spin. These things just won't spin on my z06. My goodyears had decent tread, yet below 60 first was unusable. I wouldn't bother getting the dws, the dw works fine in cold temps.